buzz_lightclick said:I hereby predict that Gel will return or sell his Denon blu ray player and go back to his Pioneer 71. Just call it a hunch.
jase fox said:Also Gel is really into his pioneer player, don't think you'll budge on that eh Gel ;-)bigboss said:jase fox said:The Denon 3313 is also flawless playbackellisdj said:If your TV was calibrated you would never had backed the 7007 Gel I dont think - fautless playback- impossible to properly tell without a calibrated tv - thats where your money should have gone mate
You know this deep down
Both have come from the same manufacturer and share components. I think ellisdj means gel would never have sold the Marantz if his TV was calibrated.
Although, gel sold his Oppo after the Marantz as he wanted money to buy an iPad. So he would've sold the Marantz instead in any case.
Like I've mentioned before I used to always be testing other players, It became an addiction, until the family came along and restricted funds with the Mrs giving me my limits, ha
I am wiling to keep both, but I do really like my Pioneer.
I know how you feel about testing Blu-Ray players, I have tried over 5 now! Without calibration the blacks are crushed and the picture is overly red or blue causing lack of definition and clarity. That is standard on these Panny TV's. It has a an off gamma as well so the top end ires are lighter than the darker end of the picture
It requires quite a lot of manipulation to get it right - but given the controls the set has it allows for an amazing level of calibration - the TV comes alive after this if you ask me, but only after this it looks flat before.
Even with a calibration blacks can still be crushed I have learnt in the last few months, you can have 2.2 gamma or 2.4 gamma looks awesome but with black crush unless the BT1866 Gamma curve is adopted - the VT has that curve naturally as do most sets I dare say so it makes sense to use it.
Factoring all that in - unless the set is calibrated I think its very difficult to make an accurate judgement on a players performance - however everyone is entitled to their opinion of course and I am not digging Gel out. He knows he should get his TV done - he just likes being to topic of debate
I recently have seen as PS4 against the Panny BDT500 - there was minimal difference until the Panny has advanced Chroma selected then it is much better. I have wanted to do the test myself against my Marantz but have spent any money to do this on other things.
It requires quite a lot of manipulation to get it right - but given the controls the set has it allows for an amazing level of calibration - the TV comes alive after this if you ask me, but only after this it looks flat before.
Even with a calibration blacks can still be crushed I have learnt in the last few months, you can have 2.2 gamma or 2.4 gamma looks awesome but with black crush unless the BT1866 Gamma curve is adopted - the VT has that curve naturally as do most sets I dare say so it makes sense to use it.
Factoring all that in - unless the set is calibrated I think its very difficult to make an accurate judgement on a players performance - however everyone is entitled to their opinion of course and I am not digging Gel out. He knows he should get his TV done - he just likes being to topic of debate
I recently have seen as PS4 against the Panny BDT500 - there was minimal difference until the Panny has advanced Chroma selected then it is much better. I have wanted to do the test myself against my Marantz but have spent any money to do this on other things.
bigboss
Moderator
Careful ellisdj. You don't want gel to accuse you of bullying him into getting his TV calibrated.
I think gel mentioned somewhere that given his recent experience with Panasonic TVs, he may end up returning it in a few months' time for a new one, and that's why he's undecided on calibration.
I think gel mentioned somewhere that given his recent experience with Panasonic TVs, he may end up returning it in a few months' time for a new one, and that's why he's undecided on calibration.
bigboss said:Careful ellisdj. You don't want gel to accuse you of bullying him into getting his TV calibrated.
I think gel mentioned somewhere that given his recent experience with Panasonic TVs, he may end up returning it in a few months' time for a new one, and that's why he's undecided on calibration.
No, I am definitely keeping the TV, just scared it will go wrong, but it is running perfectly at the moment.
ellisdj said:Without calibration the blacks are crushed and the picture is overly red or blue causing lack of definition and clarity. That is standard on these Panny TV's. It has a an off gamma as well so the top end ires are lighter than the darker end of the picture
It requires quite a lot of manipulation to get it right - but given the controls the set has it allows for an amazing level of calibration - the TV comes alive after this if you ask me, but only after this it looks flat before.
Even with a calibration blacks can still be crushed I have learnt in the last few months, you can have 2.2 gamma or 2.4 gamma looks awesome but with black crush unless the BT1866 Gamma curve is adopted - the VT has that curve naturally as do most sets I dare say so it makes sense to use it.
Factoring all that in - unless the set is calibrated I think its very difficult to make an accurate judgement on a players performance - however everyone is entitled to their opinion of course and I am not digging Gel out. He knows he should get his TV done - he just likes being to topic of debate
I recently have seen as PS4 against the Panny BDT500 - there was minimal difference until the Panny has advanced Chroma selected then it is much better. I have wanted to do the test myself against my Marantz but have spent any money to do this on other things.
He does seem to get a new one every year, I suppose with that in mind it might not be worth it as he will only get to see it for a few months before its out for the new one
bigboss
Moderator
ellisdj said:He does seem to get a new one every year, I suppose with that in mind it might not be worth it as he will only get to see it for a few months before its out for the new one
Let's hope he doesn't change TVs as frequently as he changes blu ray players!
jase fox
Well-known member
Did you do the update Gel? And if so did you notice any improvements?
Your loyalty lies with Pioneer Gel, even if you found other players to blow it out the water you'd still keep your pioneer, from what I'm gathering anyway
And as for what ellisdj say's how a Tv can look before calibration? My word, I've certainly not noticed that with my tv or any other, ha My quality is perfectly fine and I have it how I want my quality and not how someone says how it's supposed to look!
I look at it this way, if a tv should be a certain way then the tv manufacturers would make it that way and not add tv settings like colour, contrast, brightness etc, they would be absent from the menu?? There simply there for the consumer to use for there liking.
That's my ten peneth on the subject !
Your loyalty lies with Pioneer Gel, even if you found other players to blow it out the water you'd still keep your pioneer, from what I'm gathering anyway
And as for what ellisdj say's how a Tv can look before calibration? My word, I've certainly not noticed that with my tv or any other, ha My quality is perfectly fine and I have it how I want my quality and not how someone says how it's supposed to look!
I look at it this way, if a tv should be a certain way then the tv manufacturers would make it that way and not add tv settings like colour, contrast, brightness etc, they would be absent from the menu?? There simply there for the consumer to use for there liking.
That's my ten peneth on the subject !
jase fox said:
Sorry - thats the biggest load of crap -and you are both hugely wrong and mistaken - however you are entitled to your opinion
there is a standard for which tv / film is produced - now your TV is designed to reproduce that as closely at it can.
If it wasnt then it wouldnt have controls to adjust it to mimic this standard.
Manufacturers dont do this out of the box becuase people are naive and it saves them money simple as. However that doesnt mean its not right to do it - its purely based on manufacturing costs - again otherwise why would the put controls in - and better controls all the time? !
Its not like sound - its either right or its wrong 100% measurable. Everything is wrong there is only 1 right in this instance with TV's - but if you prefer it like that its up to you
jase fox
Well-known member
Oh I do prefer it like that, very much so.ellisdj said:
And I feel your frustration when someone goes against the grain to what you are saying, as I used to feel that wsy when I have folk telling me that all bluray players are the same quality disregarding of cost.
And that it's all in my head. I'm seeing things apparently :-/
But thanks for your passionate take on it.
Thats not what I have said at all - I have said calibrating a TV makes it correct - not having it calibrated doesnt matter how you set it by eye it will be wrong.
There is no argument in this fact - its either accurate or its not.
If you prefer it not calibrated / not accurate / performing at its best then thats up to you - but when making statements and recommnedations that 1 is better than another I think its important for you to bear in mind you are not seeing any of it at its best.
This is not a debateable issue - its 100% measurable and based on accurate standards - not set by my but the people who produce what you watch
There is no argument in this fact - its either accurate or its not.
If you prefer it not calibrated / not accurate / performing at its best then thats up to you - but when making statements and recommnedations that 1 is better than another I think its important for you to bear in mind you are not seeing any of it at its best.
This is not a debateable issue - its 100% measurable and based on accurate standards - not set by my but the people who produce what you watch
jase fox
Well-known member
I've decided what's accurate and it cost me nothing!ellisdj said:
You did point out that Gel wouldn't be able to tell any differences etc (words to that effect) between various players unless his Tv has been calibrated? Yes?
Well my Tv hasn't been calibrated and I can certainly tell the differences? And always have done.
Ok yes, everything has a certain standard, but just because a picture has a "proper" way of viewing, doesn't mean you have to like it.
I've seen a calibrated tv up and running and I personally didn't like it, but if a picture is perfect to me then it is.
bigboss
Moderator
jase fox
Well-known member
Dont forget my Silencer & Mains block BB ;-)bigboss said:jase fox said:
....except for the cables, power cords and blu ray player!
And all I had to do was get my Tv calibrated - shame on me :-(
bigboss
Moderator
jase fox said:
This is why manufacturers do not sell calibrated TV's - the demand for them amazingly would be low - as people think they know best or dont care.
The calibration thread on this forum is a perfect example - many random people /everyone including Son of SJ on 4 different TV's states the calibrated images are categorically better than before calibration. Had he not had 4 done at once he would have had more time to initially digest the differences rather than boucing from one set to another to try see the fruits of his investment. It was also asking a lot of the calibrator to do 4 in one day - sqaure eyes after that one.
This is helped ym them actually seeing how bad the TV was measuring prioer to the calibration and then how good after. This is eye opening just as measuring speakers / subwoofer frequency response is in your listening room
Calibration is even better on newer TV's as the controls allow for an amazingly accurate image with high contrast and rdidulous Average Gray Scale DE of 0.5 on my calibrated 65VT65 and near perfect gamma / colour. This is why I am saying Gel is missing out and it would be a good investment of his money.
Viewing like this is a completely different experience to the mish mash that comes out of the box / adjusting settings by eye.
Looking foward to watching Gravity on my Calibrated 3D settings to see it in its full glory.
I've started something here .....
im going to wait until I've had my vt calibrated for the second time and them make a decision whether to upgrade my 71 to the 3313.
Ellisdj - he will be calibrating the tv to the BT.1886 .
im going to wait until I've had my vt calibrated for the second time and them make a decision whether to upgrade my 71 to the 3313.
Ellisdj - he will be calibrating the tv to the BT.1886 .
Was that yours or his suggestion?
Better to calibrare through the player you plan to keep.
It shouldnt make a difference but just in case
Better to calibrare through the player you plan to keep.
It shouldnt make a difference but just in case
I asked him how he was doing the calibration with the gamma as per your advice to me earlier, and we are going to see how it looks.
the calibration will be done through the 71 so will see after then. However, after the various points from many people re high end vs cheaper blueray players not being any different for blueray my feeling is that I won't tell the difference apart from faster loading times and better standard DVD picture post calibration.
we will see though and I suppose it will be down to me deciding If I will like a calibrated picture of not...... I wasn't impressed before but I don't think it was done properly hence me getting a refund, and now having a go with someone else. It could be me though!!
the calibration will be done through the 71 so will see after then. However, after the various points from many people re high end vs cheaper blueray players not being any different for blueray my feeling is that I won't tell the difference apart from faster loading times and better standard DVD picture post calibration.
we will see though and I suppose it will be down to me deciding If I will like a calibrated picture of not...... I wasn't impressed before but I don't think it was done properly hence me getting a refund, and now having a go with someone else. It could be me though!!
Trick is getting the curve right if the metre doesnt measure 0 IRE -- I know what I have used for 2D and 3D - will be interested to know what your calibrator uses?
Are you keeping the 3313 gel?
I would seriusly consider getting your VT calibrated, I'm well impressed with mine. If you don't watch 3d and you are ok with the slow loading times, then I'd keep your 71.
I would seriusly consider getting your VT calibrated, I'm well impressed with mine. If you don't watch 3d and you are ok with the slow loading times, then I'd keep your 71.
Series1boy said:
Hi
No, I've sent it back. If I had the money I would have kept it though. It looked like it was still on par with my Pioneer 71 though. I am still thinking about calibration, good to know you are now happy though. :cheers:
buzz_lightclick
Well-known member
gel said:buzz_lightclick said:I hereby predict that Gel will return or sell his Denon blu ray player and go back to his Pioneer 71. Just call it a hunch.
gel said:
Just call me a soothsayer! :rofl: Thought you might keep it a bit longer than that though! :doh:
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