Creek Evolution VS Leema Pulse?

[albireo]

Hi,

has anybody listened to/owned these two integrated amplifiers and would like to comment on their differences/strenghts/weaknesses?

In particular, would you feel the Leema Pulse represents an improvement over the Creek? Thanks a lot!

 

[NHL]

HiFi Choice often likes Creek, Leema Pulse "only" got 4/5 by What HiFi. Probably not many which has auditioned both.

Cheers :cheers:

 

[Crocodile]

Plastic Penguin has an original Pulse & I believe has auditioned a version of the Evo, but not sure which one.

Might help if you clarify if you're looking for opinions on the original versions or the Evo 2/Pulse III.

 

[albireo]

Hi there, thank you both for your answers. I'm interested in comparisons between the original Creek Evo and the old Leema Pulse (the one without LED display). Cheers!

 

[tino]

I think Pulse II (older style with lots of blue LEDs!) and Pulse III (set top box looky-likey with numeric LEDs) are sonically very similar since I believe they are the same intrinsic design. Just take a look at the back panels of both of them and they are identical except for the DAC inputs ... the Pulse III does have the added benefit of an on-board DAC, which may be of interest to you.

 

[SSM]

I owned the EVO 1 for a good few years and heard the Pulse II when I bought Leema Xero speakers. The Creek has an energetic presentation that rivals a Nait 5i and a slightly forward balance. Its really great with pop, rock and dance music. I only had one audition of the Pulse II but heard enough to know it's rather different to the EVO. It has greater depth to the soundstage (which also means not as forward as the EVO), more delicacy and reveals more fine detail. But its no less engaging rhythmically than the EVO 1.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: despite being a satisfied ex-EVO 1 owner, if I had a choice between the old Pulse II vs the newer EVO 2 now, I'll take the Leema. More finesse, (probably) more musicality, and definitely a wider tolerance/compatiblity with pricier speaker upgrades in the future.

cheerSS

 

[plastic penguin]

Hi,

has anybody listened to/owned these two integrated amplifiers and would like to comment on their differences/strenghts/weaknesses?

In particular, would you feel the Leema Pulse represents an improvement over the Creek? Thanks a lot!

Is this the Leema you're talking about?

Yes, I've home demo'd the Creek Evo 2 and own the above Leema

Please forgive the metaphor:

"When I finally clapped eyes on the Creek Evo, after 18 months of deliberation, I knew it was a very attractive, Plain Jane of an amp: It's the sort of kit you could take home to your mother and not be embarrassed...

Then the summer of last year in strutted a catwalking, glamour-puss from the stable of Leema. It had the looks to enthral and the sound to captivate. A little risky but, with the right partners, fantastic. I ain't changing..."

With a retail price of around £600 for the Creek and the same for the Leema then it's job done. A no-brainer IMO.

Sub-£1,000 Creek Evo2. Sub-£2,000 Leema Pulse.

Here endeth the story...

 

[SSM]

Not quite. The latest Pulse has no volume knob while the EVO 2 retains the quality metal one from the EVO 1. This could swing the vote for audiophools who are really into knobs.

Have to say I much prefer the fascia design of the Pulse II to its successor. The traditional volume knob and string of LEDs look so cool, it's such a pity they were eradicated in the Pulse III.

SS

 

[albireo]

Hi all, thanks a lot for your comments. Plastic Penguin, yes that's the Leema I meant.

I should have added more details to my original post. I already own a Creek Evolution, and I'm currently considering the Leema Pulse II as a potential replacement.

I am overall extremely satisfied with the Creek Evo: I use a pair of Monitor Audio GS10 with it, which I love. My impressions when I first purchased the Creek closely mirrored those of SSM: fantastic on the PRaT front - I auditioned it against a Rotel 06 and a Naim 5i and ended up preferring the Creek (equally engaging, but sweeter and more convincing in terms of spatial presentation to my ears). As some of you say, the build quality was also impressive: it has that metal feel and the knobs feel just "right".

Now why would I be looking for a replacement if I like the Creek so much? The problem is on the bass front. I feel that bass-wise, the MA GS10 might be needing something more behind. With some tracks and some genres, I feel the bass can be one or more of the following: slightly overpronounced, slightly loose/ woolly. Before owning the Creek I had a NAD C370. While the Creek completely destroys the NAD on many fronts imho (soundstage, 3D positioning, rhythm) I remember think the NAD was still marginally better in terms of bass rendition.

I DID consider the room placement factor: previously I had my speakers on the long dimension of a 16x10 rectangular room, firing across the short dimension: the problem was quite noticeable and I was able to use my GS10 only with the port bungs.

Then I completely changed everything - I read something about room placement techniques, etc. Now the speakers sit far from the walls, firing along the long dimension. Needless to say, this has had a huge influence on the sound - it sounds like a completely different system. No port bungs needed anymore - and on the vast majority of my music (jazz, classical, progressive rock) the bass is tight and right.

Still...Well you know, one always aims to improve on the little details I guess

Hence my question in the first post. I unfortunately cannot audition a pulse, I would have to buy blindly. I also heard good things about high-power Musical Fidelity amps connected to MA speakers, however I can't find any affordable ones (if one excludes used near-junk or overpriced mint used units surfacing on a popular auction site).

Right sorry for the rambling, your suggestions/experiences about the Leema are greatly appreciated. It would be nice if somebody could comment on its synergy with MA speakers as well. Thanks a lot!

 

[Crocodile]

Right sorry for the rambling, your suggestions/experiences about the Leema are greatly appreciated. It would be nice if somebody could comment on its synergy with MA speakers as well. Thanks a lot!

PP runs RS6s with his original Pulse as do I with a Pulse III.

I was searching for something between what I considered the forward sound of a Rotel RA-1062 & the overly laid back Arcam A85. The Pulse III fits this bill nicely & has good control of the RS6 & I would expect it to do the same with your GS10. Not heard the Creek.

Sadly I'm not getting the best from them because I'm constrained in room layout exactly as you described. Firing across the room & too close to the walls, as is my listening position.

I was also considering the original Pulse from Sevenoaks Brighton when the III came up but I was put off by their lack of a decent returns policy. They state on Ebay & have confirmed by e-mail that they will only accept faulty or unopened boxes back, which is is contravention of Distance Selling Regulations. I decided I'd rather not deal with them.

 

[plastic penguin]

Hi all, thanks a lot for your comments. Plastic Penguin, yes that's the Leema I meant.

I should have added more details to my original post. I already own a Creek Evolution, and I'm currently considering the Leema Pulse II as a potential replacement.

I am overall extremely satisfied with the Creek Evo: I use a pair of Monitor Audio GS10 with it, which I love. My impressions when I first purchased the Creek closely mirrored those of SSM: fantastic on the PRaT front - I auditioned it against a Rotel 06 and a Naim 5i and ended up preferring the Creek (equally engaging, but sweeter and more convincing in terms of spatial presentation to my ears). As some of you say, the build quality was also impressive: it has that metal feel and the knobs feel just "right".

Now why would I be looking for a replacement if I like the Creek so much? The problem is on the bass front. I feel that bass-wise, the MA GS10 might be needing something more behind. With some tracks and some genres, I feel the bass can be one or more of the following: slightly overpronounced, slightly loose/ woolly. Before owning the Creek I had a NAD C370. While the Creek completely destroys the NAD on many fronts imho (soundstage, 3D positioning, rhythm) I remember think the NAD was still marginally better in terms of bass rendition.

I DID consider the room placement factor: previously I had my speakers on the long dimension of a 16x10 rectangular room, firing across the short dimension: the problem was quite noticeable and I was able to use my GS10 only with the port bungs.

Then I completely changed everything - I read something about room placement techniques, etc. Now the speakers sit far from the walls, firing along the long dimension. Needless to say, this has had a huge influence on the sound - it sounds like a completely different system. No port bungs needed anymore - and on the vast majority of my music (jazz, classical, progressive rock) the bass is tight and right.

Still...Well you know, one always aims to improve on the little details I guess

Hence my question in the first post. I unfortunately cannot audition a pulse, I would have to buy blindly. I also heard good things about high-power Musical Fidelity amps connected to MA speakers, however I can't find any affordable ones (if one excludes used near-junk or overpriced mint used units surfacing on a popular auction site).

Right sorry for the rambling, your suggestions/experiences about the Leema are greatly appreciated. It would be nice if somebody could comment on its synergy with MA speakers as well. Thanks a lot!

Indeed as Crocodile says I have MA RS6s. Also when I auditioned the Pulse the shop hooked it up to GS10s. Very good indeed. Since buying the Pulse I've heard PMC DB1is and Totem Arro speakers (both on home trial). Sensational.

The difference between the Creek Evo and the Pulse is bass definition: not only detail but tight, fast bass. But the major advantage is so incredibly musical, allied to amazing realism for the money (£1,300 RRP). Now it's been reduced to £600, as mentioned in the previous post, it's a no-brainer.

(My room is 17' x 13' and I have the RS6s (without bungs) firing across the narrow part. The Pulse has fantastic control over the hard domed tweeter and the hefty bass & bass/mid cones. It falls short of the "harshness Line"; sparkly, lively but never grates).

 

[albireo]

Hi PP what did you hear in the Pulse/PMC combo that was lacking in the Pulse/GS10 one?

 

[plastic penguin]

Hi PP what did you hear in the Pulse/PMC combo that was lacking in the Pulse/GS10 one?

When I auditioned the Pulse and GS10s I also heard a pair Spendor SA-1s which improved proceedings, although it wasn't 'night and day' different.

When I home trialled PMCs and Totem that was months later. Have to admit I love PMCs tonal qualities, albeit a little more 'hi-fi' sounding than Totem, which are equally as good but for different reasons.

I found the Spendors to be a little too smooth for my taste, although forum member Inter_Voice absolutely loved the combo.

Maybe this will help. http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/oh-dear-ive-gone-and-done-it-now

 

[Inter_Voice]

Hi PP what did you hear in the Pulse/PMC combo that was lacking in the Pulse/GS10 one?

When I auditioned the Pulse and GS10s I also heard a pair Spendor SA-1s which improved proceedings, although it wasn't 'night and day' different.

When I home trialled PMCs and Totem that was months later. Have to admit I love PMCs tonal qualities, albeit a little more 'hi-fi' sounding than Totem, which are equally as good but for different reasons.

I found the Spendors to be a little too smooth for my taste, although forum member Inter_Voice absolutely loved the combo.

Maybe this will help. http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/oh-dear-ive-gone-and-done-it-now

You are right pp, I love smooth and sweet sound and that is why Spendor SA1 matches my taste perfectly. I found MA a bit bright for me. As you always mentioned it is absolutely necessary to have an audition first before making a decsion which combination to purchase.

As to Pulse II I can only say it is a value for the money amp and the best amp. below £2000. It is fast, with good dynamics, neutral albit the bass might be a little bit on the lean side to somebody. Recently I have changed my Pulse II to Tucana II and the characteristics is very much similar to Pulse II but of course it has overome all the small shortcomings of Pulse II. Actually it is the big brother of Pulse. IMHO and according to WHF it might be the best amp. below £4000 range.

 

[Inter_Voice]

Hi PP what did you hear in the Pulse/PMC combo that was lacking in the Pulse/GS10 one?

When I auditioned the Pulse and GS10s I also heard a pair Spendor SA-1s which improved proceedings, although it wasn't 'night and day' different.

When I home trialled PMCs and Totem that was months later. Have to admit I love PMCs tonal qualities, albeit a little more 'hi-fi' sounding than Totem, which are equally as good but for different reasons.

I found the Spendors to be a little too smooth for my taste, although forum member Inter_Voice absolutely loved the combo.

Maybe this will help. http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/oh-dear-ive-gone-and-done-it-now

What pp said is absolutely correct. I loved the smooth and sweet sound generated from SA1 which matches exactly my tastes For MA it is slightly too bright for me and my ears feel a bit fatigue on long hrs. of listening.

Though I have no experience with Creek I can fully agee with pp that you should seriously consider Pulse II. In simple terms it is fast, clear, no added favour and very dynamic indeed. Though someone might find the bass department a little bit lean nevertheless it can be overcome by coupling it with the right speakers. Most probably Pulse is one of the best integrated amplifier below 2000 pounds (and now you can buy one for 600 - what a great deal !!!).

You may wish to know that I have changed my Pulse II to Tucana II which has the same characteristics of Pulse II. TBH I cannot find any shorcomings in this amplifier and IMHO Tucana II is one of the best integrated amplifer under 4000 pounds and can be used as a reference amplifier.

Just a point to note I know that Pulse is designed according to the characteristics of its big brother Tucana and therefore the sound produced are very much alike.

As always mentioned by pp, don't just relie on our personal views, go and have an audition if you can (thought I bought my Pulse and Tucana as well as SA1 blinded without any audition ).

 

[plastic penguin]

Hi PP what did you hear in the Pulse/PMC combo that was lacking in the Pulse/GS10 one?

When I auditioned the Pulse and GS10s I also heard a pair Spendor SA-1s which improved proceedings, although it wasn't 'night and day' different.

When I home trialled PMCs and Totem that was months later. Have to admit I love PMCs tonal qualities, albeit a little more 'hi-fi' sounding than Totem, which are equally as good but for different reasons.

I found the Spendors to be a little too smooth for my taste, although forum member Inter_Voice absolutely loved the combo.

Maybe this will help. http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/oh-dear-ive-gone-and-done-it-now

What pp said is absolutely correct. I loved the smooth and sweet sound generated from SA1 which matches exactly my tastes For MA it is slightly too bright for me and my ears feel a bit fatigue on long hrs. of listening.

Though I have no experience with Creek I can fully agee with pp that you should seriously consider Pulse II. In simple terms it is fast, clear, no added favour and very dynamic indeed. Though someone might find the bass department a little bit lean nevertheless it can be overcome by coupling it with the right speakers. Most probably Pulse is one of the best integrated amplifier below 2000 pounds (and now you can buy one for 600 - what a great deal !!!).

You may wish to know that I have changed my Pulse II to Tucana II which has the same characteristics of Pulse II. TBH I cannot find any shorcomings in this amplifier and IMHO Tucana II is one of the best integrated amplifer under 4000 pounds and can be used as a reference amplifier.

Just a point to note I know that Pulse is designed according to the characteristics of its big brother Tucana and therefore the sound produced are very much alike.

As always mentioned by pp, don't just relie on our personal views, go and have an audition if you can (thought I bought my Pulse and Tucana as well as SA1 blinded without any audition ).

Just to point out though, I_V - I agree the Pulse can sound a little lean in comparison to the Caspian and Naim XS, but in isolation this slight shortfall pales into insignificance.

 

[Inter_Voice]

Just to point out though, I_V - I agree the Pulse can sound a little lean in comparison to the Caspian and Naim XS, but in isolation this slight shortfall pales into insignificance.

Agreed pp and that was why I said only SLIGHTLY lean which is not considered as significant as you have clarified.

 

[plastic penguin]

Just to point out though, I_V - I agree the Pulse can sound a little lean in comparison to the Caspian and Naim XS, but in isolation this slight shortfall pales into insignificance.

Agreed pp and that was why I said only SLIGHTLY lean which is not considered as significant as you have clarified.

This is all going scarily well, I_V - uniform agreement...:rofl:

I like the Spendor SA-1 very much, but my living room needs a Monitor Audio Silver or a Totem. It is heavily damped: Thick carpet, wallpaper with industrial backing paper, chunky curtains and a huuuge soft sofa. I think the Spendors would be rendered dull as a consequence.

 

[albireo]

Thanks a lot for your contributions.

In going from the Creek Evo (85W) to the Pulse II (80W) I would be losing those 5W of power. Is this something that has any meaning in terms of potential sound quality? I mean can an amplifier providing less power be potentially worse than a more powerful one in some respects?

 

[Inter_Voice]

Thanks a lot for your contributions.

In going from the Creek Evo (85W) to the Pulse II (80W) I would be losing those 5W of power. Is this something that has any meaning in terms of potential sound quality? I mean can an amplifier providing less power be potentially worse than a more powerful one in some respects?

Don't worry about the 5W. If you search the web and actually some reviewer had done a test on Pulse II and the output is something like 83W. Never trust what the catalogue has claimed and I have no idea if Creek can actually deliver 85W.

Lossing a few Watt will certainly not affecting the SQ. You may wish to kown that my Tucana is 140W and can delievr 40A of current - a lot of power indeed.

 

[plastic penguin]

Subscribe totally with Inter_Voice. The one thing the Leema has is wonderful control when cranked up. This is due to the current as opposed to outright power. The Totem Arro are only 86dbs and the Pulse had no noticeable trouble.

 

[Inter_Voice]

The Totem Arro are only 86dbs and the Pulse had no noticeable trouble.

My Spendor SA1 is even worse, its sensitivity is only 83-84dB on actual measurement but the Pulse II drove it without any difficulties and the volume knob seldom exceeded 10 o'clock position. Pulse should be powerful enough to drive any kind of difficult speakers.

 

[SSM]

Now why would I be looking for a replacement if I like the Creek so much? The problem is on the bass front. I feel that bass-wise, the MA GS10 might be needing something more behind. With some tracks and some genres, I feel the bass can be one or more of the following: slightly overpronounced, slightly loose/ woolly. Before owning the Creek I had a NAD C370. While the Creek completely destroys the NAD on many fronts imho (soundstage, 3D positioning, rhythm) I remember think the NAD was still marginally better in terms of bass rendition.

Hi again,

I don't want to prolong the discussion but just want to share what I experienced three years ago when I bought a MF X-T100 to replace the EVO as the amp for my floorstanding DALI Ikon 6. The first impression I got was that the MF exerted more effortless and tauter control in the bass. Deep bass note were more audible and authoritative. It's not to say the EVO suffered from woolly bass at all times. Pair it with a standmount like stablemate Epos M12.2 (like I did) and you'll never notice any flaws. Move on to floorstanders that require a sterner hand, and you'll realize the fact that any well-designed Brit amp that costs twice the EVO's rrp (like big bro the Destiny :clap: ) is generally going to have the superior current and 'engineering' to get the job done better. It's on this basis that I'd reckon it's a no-brainer to opt for a Pulse II over an EVO2 if the asking prices are the same. (There's no such thing as a free lunch in the Land of Upgradititis Maybe on the DAC front in this age, but where better speakers and amps and concerned, ya always have to PAY... :O )

cheerSS

 

[albireo]

Hi there, an update: I decided to keep playing with the speaker position in order to understand better if the occasionally slow bass on some tracks (~5% of my music) could actually depend on it - I figured it would be a real pity to get rid of the Creek Evo when I basically love it for everything apart from that problem...

And surprise! I solved the problem! I positioned the speakers further away from the side walls, and very slightly toed in towards the listening position. I also got rid of some quite large boxes sitting in a corner or the room. The problematic tracks now play as they should! It was definitely a problem of room configuration for me - I would have never thought that my GS10 could be so sensitive to placement. Now everything sounds sublime to my ears (been listening to Muddy Waters - Folk Singer it was simply unbelievable).

I'm sure the Leema is a brilliant amp but I've decided I'll stick to my set-up for now..Thanks for your advice and keep up the good work!

 

[Inter_Voice]

albireo, nice to hear that you have solved your problem :clap:

Yes it is important to find out what causes the problem before blaming your system