Choosing the right amp for B&W CM8

[Mcklemme]

I need advice on choosing the right amp for a pair of B&W CM8 speakers.

i know that a lot of people recommend Rotel for these speakers, and I am considering the £600 Rotel RA-12. I am also looking at the £1200 Cambridge Azur 851A which is also a powerful amplifier.

Why is Rotel so often recommended for B&W? Is it because of its power compared to the price? Or is the sound match between the two really that superior to other amps?

Do any of you have experience driving the CM8's with the Cambridge amp? How do they match up?

I will demo both amps with the speakers, and I know that my own ears will be the judge, but any experience or advice on choosing an amp for the CM8's is appreciated. I can't get my hands on Roksan or Cyrus where I live - and there are no chances of a demo.

 

[toyota man]

Hi Ive heard the cm8s with a Roksan Caspian m2 amp sounded pritty dam good Ive also heard them with a Musical fidelity m6i sounded even better IMHO and Ive heard them with a Leema Tucana mk11 which also sounded very good I know these are all a lot more money but I think this would suggest that the speakers are very good you could try the mf m3i or the leema pulse or the pulse 111 🙂 🙂 I am sure there are m8 owners that may be more help good luck in your search

 

[richardw42]

Had CM7s.

Pretty ropey with a Roksan K2 amp, but brilliant with a Musical Fidelity XA2. I'd definitely be having a listen to MF.

 

[Mcklemme]

Thanks a lot for your input! I'll see if I can find somewhere to audition Musical Fidelity. Roksan is not available where I live. Maybe I should take a trip to London just to audition different setups 🙂

 

[plastic penguin]

I need advice on choosing the right amp for a pair of B&W CM8 speakers.

Why is Rotel so often recommended for B&W? Is it because of its power compared to the price? Or is the sound match between the two really that superior to other amps?

To answer the question about B&W and Rotel: Rotel and B&W develop their products in the same factory in southern England. They test each others to match, hence why the two work. And they do IMO. It isn't because they superior, just pure synergy.

Alternatively, look at Leema Pulse and Naim Nait 5i, Cyrus 8...

My first point of call would be Rotel's RA-1520.

 

[Mcklemme]

To answer the question about B&W and Rotel: Rotel and B&W develop their products in the same factory in southern England. They test each others to match, hence why the two work. And they do IMO. It isn't because they superior, just pure synergy.

Alternatively, look at Leema Pulse and Naim Nait 5i, Cyrus 8...

My first point of call would be Rotel's RA-1520.

I see. Sounds like I should try to demo the 1520 as the Leema and Cyrus are not available here in Denmark as far as I can see.

Plastic Penguin, have you compared it to the RA-12? The difference in price is small, so that's not really the issue for me. The 12 has a build in DAC, but I plan - at least until I change my mind again - on buying the Cambridge Stream Magic 6 which is a really great machine and it has the same build in DAC as the 12. That' also why I ask about the Cambridge Azur 851A. I'd prefer to buy units with the same design...and same remote. But I might have to get some kind of hifi shelf that can hide my equipment and a universal remote that can turn on different units with one click. From you profile, PP, I can tell you don't let that kind of vanity limit your hifi shopping 🙂

 

[plastic penguin]

To answer the question about B&W and Rotel: Rotel and B&W develop their products in the same factory in southern England. They test each others to match, hence why the two work. And they do IMO. It isn't because they superior, just pure synergy.

Alternatively, look at Leema Pulse and Naim Nait 5i, Cyrus 8...

My first point of call would be Rotel's RA-1520.

I see. Sounds like I should try to demo the 1520 as the Leema and Cyrus are not available here in Denmark as far as I can see.

Plastic Penguin, have you compared it to the RA-12? The difference in price is small, so that's not really the issue for me. The 12 has a build in DAC, but I plan - at least until I change my mind again - on buying the Cambridge Stream Magic 6 which is a really great machine and it has the same build in DAC as the 12. That' also why I ask about the Cambridge Azur 851A. I'd prefer to buy units with the same design...and same remote. But I might have to get some kind of hifi shelf that can hide my equipment and a universal remote that can turn on different units with one click. From you profile, PP, I can tell you don't let that kind of vanity limit your hifi shopping 🙂

No, haven't heard the latest Rotel models. No doubt they'll have the same sonic traits as previous models. Have heard Cambridge 840 amp and it sounds okay (with RS6s not B&W) but, to my ears, sounded too mechanical.

I like hi-fis to be a hi-fi, even if it means loads of cables.

 

[Mcklemme]

okay' is not what we're aiming for 🙂 I'm really looking forward to comparing the amps!

Beauty has many faces. Without a hint of marketing education: I'm pretty sure you're not an Apple fanboy! Kudos for putting function over form 🙂 Great photo!

 

[plastic penguin]

okay' is not what we're aiming for 🙂 I'm really looking forward to comparing the amps!

Beauty has many faces. Without a hint of marketing education: I'm pretty sure you're not an Apple fanboy! Kudos for putting function over form 🙂 Great photo!

Thanks.

I'm not a technology fanboy, so nothing against Apple.

Really need to find what sound suits you the best, and which set-up has the "ooo" factor. Although we all have experience with various hi-fis, this is such a subjective hobby/interest, one has to experience for themselves.

Keep us informed on views etc etc.

Good luck, pp

 

[Anonymous]

Mcklemme> Do keep us posted on what you figure out 🙂

I have the B&W CM8's as well (with an older Marantz PM7001 amp) and im also thinking about buying the Rotel 12 series, amp+cd+tuner/networkstreamer.

Oh, and im in Denmark just like you hehe.

 

[Mcklemme]

Hej Maestro

jeg skal nok opdatere jer 🙂

I'll make sure to keep you posted. I have arranged with some hifi dealers that I can try their equipment for the weekend. So far the amp list includes Cambridge Azur 851a, Rotel RA-12 and Rotel RA-1520. Speakers are B&W CM8's and the source is Cambridge Stream Magic 6.

I have high expectations when it comes to the RA-1520. I've heard from three diffent dealers that it's quite a bit better than the RA-12 and the price is almost the same. And it's not because they have the 1520 sitting on the shelves, because they don't - it'll be about a month before they stock it again. I had to shop around to find one I could borrow. Unlike the 12 the 1520 has no build in DAC.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

The CM8s are better speakers than the level of amp you're going for - I have a 1520 and while it plays medium paced, simple tunes well it flattens busier tracks (front to back) and lower frequencies in its stage are 'missing'. more noticeable in music that is slow & requires an amp to discribe emotion or delicate touches If you like your music loud its a good amp but if you sit and listen to your music its missing something - I'm not sure if this is what is mean't by the term 'clinical'.

But it could be me, alot of people rate this amp so maybe mine is still 'running in'. I have to admit I've had it since the end of January I think, but its only had its time in the system for a few weeks at a time - I keep going back to the old amp. ( currently looking for a Merlin Tarantula MK6 power cable to try on it .......)

Pls let us know how you get on.

 

[Mcklemme]

The CM8s are better speakers than the level of amp you're going for - I have a 1520 and while it plays medium paced, simple tunes well it flattens busier tracks (front to back) and lower frequencies in its stage are 'missing'. more noticeable in music that is slow & requires an amp to discribe emotion or delicate touches If you like your music loud its a good amp but if you sit and listen to your music its missing something - I'm not sure if this is what is mean't by the term 'clinical'.

But it could be me, alot of people rate this amp so maybe mine is still 'running in'. I have to admit I've had it since the end of January I think, but its only had its time in the system for a few weeks at a time - I keep going back to the old amp. ( currently looking for a Merlin Tarantula MK6 power cable to try on it .......)

Pls let us know how you get on.

Interesting... So what's the amp you keep going back to then?

I don't like my music loud, really. I'm a sit and listen kinda guy 🙂

if you have any suggestion on an amp I should include in my audition, please do tell.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Its an old Yamaha AX-620 reciever ...... lol. (using the digital out on the CDP - so I'm using the 620s DAC all unused channels turned off, and effects off, using A & B speakers to biwire the speakers)

Demode some 700poundish amps earlier in the year a couple of them home demos. And while its not as loud as these 'new' amps it plays music better - to my ears, especially in the low end of the frequency band, giving more weight to vocals and fine detail you pick up a singers breathing in between words, hearing a singer like Toni Braxton for example her tounge hitting her pallette (I swear) you can hear the spit in her mouth or how close she is to the mic, you also pick up how many voices there are in the backing vocals, little details these new amps don't do.

I bought the 1520 hoping it would run in, settle down and do all these things and more, it still does not. And then I'll put this old reciever on just to make sure its not the old 'rose tinted specs' syndrome only to find out its not

On the Gladiator soundtrack for example 2 (the normal one) track one "The Progeny" there is a low drum about 1.25secs in, it sounds deep, not forced but has presents and is textured via the Yamaha, via the Rotel you can make it out but it lacks hertz and thats what I find with the amps I auditioned (delicate details, low end frequencies, natural sounding voices upper and lower registers) are lacking.

They thump and throw the tops at you and are loud, but inbetween frequencies seem missing. Sadly I have no amp suggestions for you - was not impressed by any around the 700pound mark.

To conclude though, in isolation the Rotel is a good amp - but its the fine details. My speakers are old Mission 782se, 1000 poundish in their day, so are comparable with the CM8 I would have thought.

 

[Mcklemme]

Its an old Yamaha AX-620 reciever ...... lol. (using the digital out on the CDP - so I'm using the 620s DAC all unused channels turned off, and effects off, using A & B speakers to biwire the speakers)

Demode some 700poundish amps earlier in the year a couple of them home demos. And while its not as loud as these 'new' amps it plays music better - to my ears, especially in the low end of the frequency band, giving more weight to vocals and fine detail you pick up a singers breathing in between words, hearing a singer like Toni Braxton for example her tounge hitting her pallette (I swear) you can hear the spit in her mouth or how close she is to the mic, you also pick up how many voices there are in the backing vocals, little details these new amps don't do.

Sounds like you got a great speaker/amp combination that will be difficult to replace. Lucky you!

I still hope a hard driven speaker like the CM8 will be able to reveal some musical details once it's connected to the 1520 or one of the other amps, I'll be trying. You never know. Maybe the 1520 just isn't a good match with your Missions?

 

[plastic penguin]

Its an old Yamaha AX-620 reciever ...... lol. (using the digital out on the CDP - so I'm using the 620s DAC all unused channels turned off, and effects off, using A & B speakers to biwire the speakers)

Demode some 700poundish amps earlier in the year a couple of them home demos. And while its not as loud as these 'new' amps it plays music better - to my ears, especially in the low end of the frequency band, giving more weight to vocals and fine detail you pick up a singers breathing in between words, hearing a singer like Toni Braxton for example her tounge hitting her pallette (I swear) you can hear the spit in her mouth or how close she is to the mic, you also pick up how many voices there are in the backing vocals, little details these new amps don't do.

Sounds like you got a great speaker/amp combination that will be difficult to replace. Lucky you!

I still hope a hard driven speaker like the CM8 will be able to reveal some musical details once it's connected to the 1520 or one of the other amps, I'll be trying. You never know. Maybe the 1520 just isn't a good match with your Missions?

Unless you play music at night club levels it'll be fine. I'm pretty sure you'll be pleasantly surprised just how good the Rotel/B&W match will be. 🙂

 

[Thompsonuxb]

The Missions play whats feed to them as they are crystal clear with good recordings which kinda points to the quality of the signal sent to them by the Rotel.

if you download your music try 'Fly by night' by Sea Sick Steve through your system and tell me how it sounds. Via the Yamaha in my systems there is a big 3d head pouring its soul out to me, you can feel the atomosphere and can almost tell how much Jack Daniels and Malboroughs the mans consumed before recording the track, it sounds amazing. Via the Rotel it loses so much - try it on your set up tell me what you hear/feel...... 🙂

Then again has was suggested to me before maybe the DAC in the Yamaha is better than that in the CDp...maybe.

 

[Mcklemme]

The Missions play whats feed to them as they are crystal clear with good recordings which kinda points to the quality of the signal sent to them by the Rotel.

if you download your music try 'Fly by night' by Sea Sick Steve through your system and tell me how it sounds. Via the Yamaha in my systems there is a big 3d head pouring its soul out to me, you can feel the atomosphere and can almost tell how much Jack Daniels and Malboroughs the mans consumed before recording the track, it sounds amazing. Via the Rotel it loses so much - try it on your set up tell me what you hear/feel...... 🙂

Then again has was suggested to me before maybe the DAC in the Yamaha is better than that in the CDp...maybe.

I'm willing to give Seasick Steve a chance 🙂 Where can you download his music in a decent quality?

 

[Mcklemme]

I finally auditioned the B&W CM8s with the following amps:

Rotel RA-12, Rotel RA-1520 and Cambridge Azur 851A. They all passed the test. I'll try to share my impressions which are of course very subjective. I can only describe how the equipment sounds in my living room to my ears.

Cambridge Azur 851A: very good bass control, very dynamic and precise, great punchy rythm with rock music and lots of detail. High midtones like high pitch vocals, guitars and violins sound a bit sharp - almost like the amp is about to loose it's grip. It does get better as the amp really warms up, but still causes some fatigue to my ears especially because I listen to a lot of vocal music.

Rotel RA-1520: more laid back than the Cambridge. Midtones are great without any sharpness and there is plenty of bass. I could listen to this amp/speaker combination for hours - and I did. A warm sound but still with enough detail. Music sounds more like a whole than with the Cambridge. The soundstage was big and wide. Maybe it was my choice of music, but this amp seemed to perform better and better the longer it played.

Rotel RA-12: in many ways the same presentation as the 1520. Great sound. The biggest difference is the soundstage which is a lot slimmer. And I would definately choose the 1520 over the 12. The USB socket on the front will not do anything good for music coming from an iPod. Use the RCAs on the back. I have not tested the DAC besides using the USB (sounds like it is actually using the the DAC in the iPod), so I can't say how it will sound with a digital input.

As you can see, the RA-1520 was my favorite. It performs great with the CM8 speakers.

Hope this is usefull for some of the amp seekers out there 🙂

 

[Anonymous]

I found it very usefull Mcklemme 🙂

I would like to ask some follow questions though, if thats ok. (Seeing as im in the same situation as you i think, wanting to upgrade my kit).

First of all how did you manage to get all 3 into your living room? I think most Hifi-pushers in DK are not to keen on lending out their equipment. Unless of course you bought all 3 and plan on returning 2 or 3 of them.

What was your source? CD player, which one? If so how was it connected, sounds like optical?

So for the Rotel RA-1520 you used the DAC in the source (CD) and for RA-12 you also used the source DAC it sounds like, you didnt try connecting with RCA and tried out the internal DAC?

How big is your listening room?
How are the CM8's placed in relation to the wall?
Do you use the foam bungs or without?

Hope you can manage the barage of questions hehe.

I was really hoping myself that the 12 series would not be far from 1520, as im considering buying the AMP, the CD player and the Tuner/NW player, also as i see it as beeing more "future proof" due to the DAC and streaming options etc.

Oh forgot to ask, did you keep the 1520 then? Or are you still on the market.

Edit # 2 Argh, one more question i forgot!
Which AMP do you have/had currently and how does it compare to the Rotel?

 

[Mcklemme]

I found it very usefull Mcklemme 🙂

I would like to ask some follow questions though, if thats ok. (Seeing as im in the same situation as you i think, wanting to upgrade my kit).

First of all how did you manage to get all 3 into your living room? I think most Hifi-pushers in DK are not to keen on lending out their equipment. Unless of course you bought all 3 and plan on returning 2 or 3 of them.

What was your source? CD player, which one? If so how was it connected, sounds like optical?

So for the Rotel RA-1520 you used the DAC in the source (CD) and for RA-12 you also used the source DAC it sounds like, you didnt try connecting with RCA and tried out the internal DAC?

How big is your listening room?
How are the CM8's placed in relation to the wall?
Do you use the foam bungs or without?

Hope you can manage the barage of questions hehe.

I was really hoping myself that the 12 series would not be far from 1520, as im considering buying the AMP, the CD player and the Tuner/NW player, also as i see it as beeing more "future proof" due to the DAC and streaming options etc.

Oh forgot to ask, did you keep the 1520 then? Or are you still on the market.

Edit # 2 Argh, one more question i forgot!
Which AMP do you have/had currently and how does it compare to the Rotel?

Please ask away. I'd be happy to share my experiences. Like you I was really aiming for a clean 12-series setup. It just did'nt work.

My listening room is aprox 8 m x 3,5 m. I had one speaker placed 10 cm from a corner and the other 50 cm from a corner (cable did'nt reach any longer) at the other end of the long 8 m wall. No foam bungs and in some music like blues the bass was a bit on the heavy side.

My source was Cambridge Stream Magic 6 which in my opinion is a lot (as in "A LOT"!) better than the Rotel RT-12. The Cambridge has the same DAC as the Rotel RA-12 but it is much easier to connect different inputs to it (i.e. USB stick/harddisk on the front and back, optical, coax, wireless, ethernet). I connected a cd player to the optical input and compared it to the same album in a lossless format from my NAS, and I could not tell any difference - and in theory there should'nt be a difference. The Stream Magic crashed 2 times during around 12 hours of listening, but this may have been caused by my own network (my nas has a dynamic ip adress). The design is very close to the Rotel 12-series and the black models look just fine together. I have also considered the RT-10 (in combo with Sonos) which is only a tuner for easy radio access as the Cambridge streamer does take about 20 seconds to connect to the network. RT-10 is half the price of the RT-12 and the savings can easily buy you a Sonos player which you can upgrade at a later time - prices go down and specs go up.

I only connected to the RA-12 using the USB and the RCA. I did not connect the cd player via the RA-12's digital input. So I can't comment on that. The Stream Magic played well with the RA-12 through the RCA connectors.

I went for the RA-1520, because I had a great time listening to my music through it. I just ordered it a couple of hours ago. The soundstage was very impressive compared to the RA-12. And since the Cambridge already has a DAC, the 12's DAC was not a bonus for me. This way I simply get more amp for my money. The RA-12 is a very good amp. No question. But the difference in price compared to the RA-1520 is negligible - the difference in sound is not. I need to thank Plastic Penguin for pointing me in that direction.

It really was'nt to hard to get my hands on the gear though I made a hefty 30K DKK deposit at one of the larger dealers! I almost ordered the Cambridge amp after a demo but I called and told them, that I was really in doubt. They suggested that I tried their demo equipment for the weekend and even gave me different cables to try out. At another dealer I just gave them a chance to enter the race. They did'nt even ask for a deposit. So I suggest you just tell them what's on your mind. Otherwise, bring your own stuff to one of the smaller stores. I'm sure they will let you set it up there.

As to your last question: I don't have an amp! So the ones I tested compare out of this world 🙂! I use a BeoSound Ouverture with two small, active speakers - they're are quite good considering the size, but no match for a real stereo.

If you have more questions, just keep 'em coming 🙂

 

[Thompsonuxb]

The Missions play whats feed to them as they are crystal clear with good recordings which kinda points to the quality of the signal sent to them by the Rotel.

if you download your music try 'Fly by night' by Sea Sick Steve through your system and tell me how it sounds. Via the Yamaha in my systems there is a big 3d head pouring its soul out to me, you can feel the atomosphere and can almost tell how much Jack Daniels and Malboroughs the mans consumed before recording the track, it sounds amazing. Via the Rotel it loses so much - try it on your set up tell me what you hear/feel...... 🙂

Then again has was suggested to me before maybe the DAC in the Yamaha is better than that in the CDp...maybe.

I'm willing to give Seasick Steve a chance 🙂 Where can you download his music in a decent quality?

I don't download....... yet, still a cd man, but the album is 'I Started out with nothing and I still have most of it left'.

 

[Mcklemme]

...

if you download your music try 'Fly by night' by Sea Sick Steve

...

I'm willing to give Seasick Steve a chance 🙂 Where can you download his music in a decent quality?

I don't download....... yet, still a cd man...

Well, you could've fooled me... 😉

I'll take Seasick Steve for a cruise on the Rotel in a few days...

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Let us know how you get on with 'your' Rotel out the box, mine took an age to 'break in' and only clicked this week after 11months of ownership. If you ever decide to go CD, I recommend the QED performance 2 between amp and player.

 

[Mcklemme]

Let us know how you get on with 'your' Rotel out the box, mine took an age to 'break in' and only clicked this week after 11months of ownership. If you ever decide to go CD, I recommend the QED performance 2 between amp and player.

That's good to know. I'll keep buying cd's but only to rip into a lossless format. If I go back, it's for vinyl. Think there might be a Rega turntable somewhere with my name on it 🙂