CD vs lossless from iTunes

[JoelSim]

Forgive me if this hasn't been set up correctly, but I just imported one CD onto iTunes lossless (with error correction ticked). Then streamed it through Airfoil and the DAC on my CDP and iTunes.

Don't forget I'm only one track in, the track in question 'Tiny Dancer' by good old Elton.

Results. Streamed first so I will start with that. Sounded good I have to say, plenty of detail...

Then flicked the old switch on the CDP and put the CD in. All I can say is wow, the CD sounded far fuller and much warmer in every sense. In truth a whole lot more enveloping, a whole lot more musical. Elton's voice and the instruments had so much more depth to them, all in all a lot more natural.

I had to use the missus' laptop and have put it away now, but have asked for a disk drive from Santa so will repeat the trick with a few tunes post 25th.

 

[John Duncan]

JoelSim:
Forgive me if this hasn't been set up correctly, but I just imported one CD onto iTunes lossless (with error correction ticked). Then streamed it through Airfoil and the DAC on my CDP and iTunes.

Don't forget I'm only one track in, the track in question 'Tiny Dancer' by good old Elton.

Results. Streamed first so I will start with that. Sounded good I have to say, plenty of detail...

Then flicked the old switch on the CDP and put the CD in. All I can say is wow, the CD sounded far fuller and much warmer in every sense. In truth a whole lot more enveloping, a whole lot more musical. Elton's voice and the instruments had so much more depth to them, all in all a lot more natural.

I had to use the missus' laptop and have put it away now, but have asked for a disk drive from Santa so will repeat the trick with a few tunes post 25th.

Now do it blind

 

[Gerrardasnails]

JoelSim:
Forgive me if this hasn't been set up correctly, but I just imported one CD onto iTunes lossless (with error correction ticked). Then streamed it through Airfoil and the DAC on my CDP and iTunes.

Don't forget I'm only one track in, the track in question 'Tiny Dancer' by good old Elton.

Results. Streamed first so I will start with that. Sounded good I have to say, plenty of detail...

Then flicked the old switch on the CDP and put the CD in. All I can say is wow, the CD sounded far fuller and much warmer in every sense. In truth a whole lot more enveloping, a whole lot more musical. Elton's voice and the instruments had so much more depth to them, all in all a lot more natural.

I had to use the missus' laptop and have put it away now, but have asked for a disk drive from Santa so will repeat the trick with a few tunes post 25th.

From what I can gather, the way you did it could trigger some work by iTunes on the lossless file before it was sent to your DAC. JD and others will no more and I may be wrong. I would have expected lossless to your wonderful cd player would at least match the cd itself.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

JohnDuncan:JoelSim:
Forgive me if this hasn't been set up correctly, but I just imported one CD onto iTunes lossless (with error correction ticked). Then streamed it through Airfoil and the DAC on my CDP and iTunes.

Don't forget I'm only one track in, the track in question 'Tiny Dancer' by good old Elton.

Results. Streamed first so I will start with that. Sounded good I have to say, plenty of detail...

Then flicked the old switch on the CDP and put the CD in. All I can say is wow, the CD sounded far fuller and much warmer in every sense. In truth a whole lot more enveloping, a whole lot more musical. Elton's voice and the instruments had so much more depth to them, all in all a lot more natural.

I had to use the missus' laptop and have put it away now, but have asked for a disk drive from Santa so will repeat the trick with a few tunes post 25th.

Now do it blind

And there's that!

 

[chebby]

JoelSim:...the CD sounded far fuller and much warmer in every sense. In truth a whole lot more enveloping, a whole lot more musical. Elton's voice and the instruments had so much more depth to them, all in all a lot more natural.

How do you know that "full" and "warm" and "enveloping" = more natural ?

(A Freudian would have a lot to work on with your descriptive terms.... fuller, warmer, enveloping, natural, depth etc.)

All sounds rather cloying.

 

[JoelSim]

No, just much nicer in fact, more real

 

[chebby]

JoelSim:No, just much nicer in fact, more real

You still manage to make it sound like listening to fur speakers whilst wrapped in a chocolate duvet.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

chebby:
JoelSim:No, just much nicer in fact, more real

You still manage to make it sound like listening to fur speakers whilst wrapped in a chocolate duvet.

If you have read Joel's posts over the past couple of years, you should know that's exactly how he likes his music sounding.

 

[Anonymous]

Are youposting this because you are interested in why there is a difference,or do you just what to make the point that playing the cd sounds better (at least to your ears) and that's it?

 

[Anonymous]

I dont care what anyone says, if you put a cd into a quality player, play it into your amp and to your speakers, it will sound better even if just a tiny bit that owt ripped losslesly, into itunes program,streamed,plugged into,dac'd,plugged into some hifi.

You cant beat a cd, you might come close, but you wont touch cd sound.

In the ages of the computer, lots of hmv stores still about. People who download are just doing it cos its easy and quick. I think id rather go and get the cd itself, and if i wanted to, copy it to my pc for easy ipod listening.

I might be saying that because ive got about 600 cd's in my dining room tho !!!!

lol

 

[JoelSim]

It goes back to some posts a good while back.

I was hoping for different results actually now I am all set up for streaming. I will try again with a range of music in a couple of weeks and report my findings.

I wasn't expecting it to be so clear cut today really but it was very different.

Chebby I will try to explain this better. The CD sounded far more like he was there, the lossless was more hifi actually, the CD sounded more analogue even...notes held longer, more human, more atmosphere.

 

[JoelSim]

Gerrardasnails:chebby:
JoelSim:No, just much nicer in fact, more real

You still manage to make it sound like listening to fur speakers whilst wrapped in a chocolate duvet.

If you have read Joel's posts over the past couple of years, you should know that's exactly how he likes his music sounding.Not entirely true. Yes I like detail but I also want to feel like I'm sitting in front of a warm fire rather than in a heated, marble floored room if you get my drift.

 

[Anonymous]

I have an expensive cd player for a reason you know !

look at your sig's under your posts folks, we havent got cheap and nasty cd players have we!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DENON-DCD-460-CD-PLAYER-DECK-SEPARATES-SUPER-LINEAR_W0QQitemZ350285249416QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=&rvr_id=&cguid=7f77057f1250a0aad36692a6fced75f9

 

[Charlie Jefferson]

You can beat CD, actually. Twice over.

For me, Lossless into DAC, and sometimes with vinyl.

The CD is the source for my Lossless files, so obviously has it's uses. I still buy them by the occasional bucket load but don't ever "play" them.

 

[JoelSim]

This is very accurate.

http://whathifi.com/Review/Unison-Research-Unico-CDE/

 

[Anonymous]

This is very accurate.

http://whathifi.com/Review/Unison-Research-Unico-CDE/

exactly...

 

[JoelSim]

reggaedave:
I have an expensive cd player for a reason you know !

look at your sig's under your posts folks, we havent got cheap and nasty cd players have we!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DENON-DCD-460-CD-PLAYER-DECK-SEPARATES-SUPER-LINEAR_W0QQitemZ350285249416QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=&rvr_id=&cguid=7f77057f1250a0aad36692a6fced75f9

I don't think that's what they are saying Dave. My DAC is part of my CDP, digital in from Airfoil/AE goes through the DAC on my CDP, so it is one, or a combination of the following that makes a difference:

1) CDP transport

2) Internal wiring between transport and DAC vs coax/digital/QED converter cables from AE

3) Compression of lossless

4) Summink else

I'll do a proper review in a couple of weeks with a good few tunes.

 

[Anonymous]

i kind of understand your setup, a bit ! lol

Im saying that if you play an album from a cd, in your cd player, it sounds the best to your ears?

or if you play same album via your pc (via your setup), it sounds the best to your ears?

surely you prefer......

dave

 

[Anonymous]

 

[JoelSim]

reggaedave:
i kind of understand your setup, a bit ! lol

Im saying that if you play an album from a cd, in your cd player, it sounds the best to your ears?

or if you play same album via your pc (via your setup), it sounds the best to your ears?

surely you prefer......

dave

I preferred the CD on the not totally robust sample size of one tune.

 

[Anonymous]

sorry, you generally prefer cd sound?

 

[JoelSim]

reggaedave:sorry, you generally prefer cd sound?

I have only done the comparison with one track so far, but on that one, yes.

 

[Anonymous]

im still learning....

 

[Anonymous]

JoelSim:

I don't think that's what they are saying Dave. My DAC is part of my CDP, digital in from Airfoil/AE goes through the DAC on my CDP, so it is one, or a combination of the following that makes a difference:

1) CDP transport

2) Internal wiring between transport and DAC vs coax/digital/QED converter cables from AE

3) Compression of lossless

4) Summink else

I'll do a proper review in a couple of weeks with a good few tunes.

IMO...

1) is very unlikely that it makes the type of difference you describe

2) Not likely unless something wrong with cables

3) Totally unlikely

4) Very likely.

To mention a few options: (i) you are not playing the source as a bitperfect stream (settings, volume, balance, tone control, resampling...), (ii) the cdp does not treat the data from the internal cd transport exactly the same as an incoming digital signal, eg by a reclocking circuity (you could even connect the digital out to the digital into test) (iii) the datastream is extremely jittery (not very likely perhaps), or (iv) a significant amount of wine between the first and second test that gave you a warm predisposition .

 

[Anonymous]

JoelSim...

I don't think that's what they are saying Dave. My DAC is part of my
CDP, digital in from Airfoil/AE goes through the DAC on my CDP, so it
is one, or a combination of the following that makes a difference:

1) CDP transport

2) Internal wiring between transport and DAC vs coax/digital/QED converter cables from AE

3) Compression of lossless

4) Summink else

In your own time, are you saying that in your setup described, your pc based music is plugged digitally into your said cd player, using its dac, to output to your amp+speakers?

sorry ive never seen anyone post this setup!, think if this is the case its not the same as goin througth a 2day wage dacmagic !