CD vs lossless from iTunes

[Gerrardasnails]

reggaedave:
I have an expensive cd player for a reason you know !

look at your sig's under your posts folks, we havent got cheap and nasty cd players have we!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DENON-DCD-460-CD-PLAYER-DECK-SEPARATES-SUPER-LINEAR_W0QQitemZ350285249416QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=&rvr_id=&cguid=7f77057f1250a0aad36692a6fced75f9

You may have an expensive cd player Dave but you haven't got a clue what we are talking about but are happy to give an opinion. In theory, if Joel has it set up right and the lossless files are streamed (untouched by iTunes or the laptop soundcard) into his cd player to utilise it's DAC, the difference should be the excellent transport in the cdp against no transport with the lossless files. As Charlie has explained and I and others have heard, the lossless files should at least be as good as using the cd.

 

[Anonymous]

dont take any notice of me ive just put a Clannad album on !!!!!

 

[Gerrardasnails]

reggaedave:
JoelSim...

I don't think that's what they are saying Dave. My DAC is part of my
CDP, digital in from Airfoil/AE goes through the DAC on my CDP, so it
is one, or a combination of the following that makes a difference:

1) CDP transport

2) Internal wiring between transport and DAC vs coax/digital/QED converter cables from AE

3) Compression of lossless

4) Summink else

In your own time, are you saying that in your setup described, your pc based music is plugged digitally into your said cd player, using its dac, to output to your amp+speakers?

sorry ive never seen anyone post this setup!, think if this is the case its not the same as goin througth a 2day wage dacmagic !

And I suppose you have listened to the "2 day wage Dacmagic"?

 

[JoelSim]

Pete10:JoelSim:

I don't think that's what they are saying Dave. My DAC is part of my CDP, digital in from Airfoil/AE goes through the DAC on my CDP, so it is one, or a combination of the following that makes a difference:

1) CDP transport

2) Internal wiring between transport and DAC vs coax/digital/QED converter cables from AE

3) Compression of lossless

4) Summink else

I'll do a proper review in a couple of weeks with a good few tunes.

IMO...

1) is very unlikely that it makes the type of difference you describe

2) Not likely unless something wrong with cables

3) Totally unlikely

4) Very likely.

To mention a few options: (i) you are not playing the source as a bitperfect stream (settings, volume, balance, tone control, resampling...), (ii) the cdp does not treat the data from the internal cd transport exactly the same as an incoming digital signal, eg by a reclocking circuity (you could even connect the digital out to the digital into test) (iii) the datastream is extremely jittery (not very likely perhaps), or (iv) a significant amount of wine between the first and second test that gave you a warm predisposition .

(i) Volume the same, all other settings neutral

(ii) No idea what you mean

(iii) Unlikely from a MacBook/Airfoil/AE

(iv) No wine, tests done immediately, totally sober (unusual but true)

 

[Anonymous]

Gerrardasnails:reggaedave:
I have an expensive cd player for a reason you know !

look at your sig's under your posts folks, we havent got cheap and nasty cd players have we!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DENON-DCD-460-CD-PLAYER-DECK-SEPARATES-SUPER-LINEAR_W0QQitemZ350285249416QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=&rvr_id=&cguid=7f77057f1250a0aad36692a6fced75f9You may have an expensive cd player Dave but you haven't got a clue what we are talking about but are happy to give an opinion. In theory, if Joel has it set up right and the lossless files are streamed (untouched by iTunes or the laptop soundcard) into his cd player to utilise it's DAC, the difference should be the excellent transport in the cdp against no transport with the lossless files. As Charlie has explained and I and others have heard, the lossless files should at least be as good as using the cd.

Well, although I do not think it can explain the kind of differences described, there is a difference in the design of a system with one master clock (in the combined cdtransport + processing dac ), two clocks that may get out of sync (one in the pc the other in the cdp) or even a cdp that acts purely as a slave to the incoming signal from the soundcard. All in theory...

 

[Anonymous]

I never said i did know what i was talking about.

If what you say about joelsims setup is true, then i have no doubt theres little difference in the finished sound. Transport from cd, transport from pc input.

But who else has the same kind of thing going on, you have a completely seperate dacmagic.

CA 840A cd sound...

PC based into Dacmagic...

which you prefer then?

 

[JoelSim]

reggaedave:
JoelSim...

I don't think that's what they are saying Dave. My DAC is part of myCDP, digital in from Airfoil/AE goes through the DAC on my CDP, so itis one, or a combination of the following that makes a difference:

1) CDP transport

2) Internal wiring between transport and DAC vs coax/digital/QED converter cables from AE

3) Compression of lossless

4) Summink else

In your own time, are you saying that in your setup described, your pc based music is plugged digitally into your said cd player, using its dac, to output to your amp+speakers?

sorry ive never seen anyone post this setup!, think if this is the case its not the same as goin througth a 2day wage dacmagic !

Yes. iTunes into Airfoil through Airport Express which is connected to the digital input of my CDP. There is a switch on the back of CDP which changes input between CD and the above.

That then goes through the DAC of my CDP, and all the rest of the kit is the same.

 

[Anonymous]

im might buy a dacmagic yet!

 

[Anonymous]

Yes. iTunes into Airfoil through Airport Express which is connected
to the digital input of my CDP. There is a switch on the back of CDP
which changes input between CD and the above.

That then goes through the DAC of my CDP, and all the rest of the kit is the same.

VERY HANDY !

 

[JoelSim]

reggaedave:
I never said i did know what i was talking about.

If what you say about joelsims setup is true, then i have no doubt theres little difference in the finished sound. Transport from cd, transport from pc input.

But who else has the same kind of thing going on, you have a completely seperate dacmagic.

CA 840A cd sound...

PC based into Dacmagic...

which you prefer then?

No transport on computer end as file is in iTunes losslessly already.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

reggaedave:
I never said i did know what i was talking about.

If what you say about joelsims setup is true, then i have no doubt theres little difference in the finished sound. Transport from cd, transport from pc input.

But who else has the same kind of thing going on, you have a completely seperate dacmagic.

CA 840A cd sound...

PC based into Dacmagic...

which you prefer then?

Well like Charlie said earlier, I buy CDs, rip them and never use them again. Lossless files with the £250 Dacmagic, you would need to spend a grand on a cd player to better it.

 

[Anonymous]

You may have an expensive cd player Dave but you haven't got a clue what we are talking about but are happy to give an opinion.

Caught Red handed

 

[Anonymous]

Well like Charlie said earlier, I buy CDs, rip them and never use them
again. Lossless files with the £250 Dacmagic, you would need to spend a
grand on a cd player to better it.

DONE

 

[JoelSim]

reggaedave:
Yes. iTunes into Airfoil through Airport Express which is connectedto the digital input of my CDP. There is a switch on the back of CDPwhich changes input between CD and the above.

That then goes through the DAC of my CDP, and all the rest of the kit is the same.

VERY HANDY !

Yep, bought for several reasons:

1) Rubbish radio reception - now streamed from internet

2) Spotify 320kbps streamed which sounds decent if a bit less weighty and more shrill than CD. Good for music I don't own

3) To try the lossless angle, which I need to investigate further

4) So that I can create playlists for when people come over for dinner/parties etc

 

[Anonymous]

4) So that I can create playlists for when people come over for dinner/parties etc

Good man !

 

[Anonymous]

You can beat CD, actually. Twice over.

For me, Lossless into DAC, and sometimes with vinyl.

The
CD is the source for my Lossless files, so obviously has it's uses. I
still buy them by the occasional bucket load but don't ever "play"
them.

Chord64dac, well now were talking !!!!

 

[fatboyslimfast]

JoelSim: iTunes into Airfoil through Airport Express

Have you tried just using iTunes directly? Having done some tests (albeit rudimentary and definitely sighted), I'm of the opinion that iTunes>AE seems to sound better than iTunes>Airfoil>AE.

Of course, that's not to knock Airfoil's extreme usefulness for other music progs such as Spotify and iRadio stations, which I wouldn't be without.

 

[chebby]

Also, have you optimised your audio settings for iTunes and your Mac? (I assume it is the MacBook Air in your signature)...

http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/wiki/index.php/ITunes-QuickTime_for_Mac_-_Setup_Guide

Have you also turned off the equaliser in iTunes? (Open iTunes, click 'window' and then select 'equaliser' and uncheck the 'on' square.)

 

[JoelSim]

chebby:

Also, have you optimised your audio settings for iTunes and your Mac? (I assume it is the MacBook Air in your signature)...

http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/wiki/index.php/ITunes-QuickTime_for_Mac_-_Setup_Guide

Have you also turned off the equaliser in iTunes? (Open iTunes, click 'window' and then select 'equaliser' and uncheck the 'on' square.)

I'll have a look this evening.

 

[The_Lhc]

reggaedave:
4) So that I can create playlists for when people come over for dinner/parties etc

Good man !

Dave, could you try experimenting with the "quote" button, it gets a bit confusing trying to follow your conversations sometimes?

 

[cse]

Downloads are also way too expensive at around 79p from itunes and amazon per track. It's usually cheaper to buy the CD from amazon on new and used.

 

[Anonymous]

Four things to try:

1. Which version of itunes are you using? There have been issues in the past (i think it was version 8.1?) with sound quality.

2. Make sure any eq or the sound check option is not selected

3. Have you tried another media player?

4. Try another ripper; eg maxcd with cdparanoia

 

[Anonymous]

cse:Downloads are also way too expensive at around 79p from itunes and amazon per track. It's usually cheaper to buy the CD from amazon on new and used.

What's that got to do with lossloss encoding?

 

[Anonymous]

Do the test with a quality headset

Much easier to be in the exact same listening position than trying to position yourself between speakers. Only a few cm could easily make the listening experience different when you try to compare the sound using your speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok im wondering if there is a difference in playback between:

1) internal cd/dvd player from the pc connected via onboard soundcard (s/pdif) to receiver.

2) internal cd/dvd player from the pc connected via dedicated soundcard (s/pdif) to receiver.

3) normal cd player connected via s/pdif to receiver.

In all these situations there will be a digital signal from source to amp, will this digital signal change (hearable) in any of these options?

(the receiver could also be a hi-fi amp with digtal input)