Can King Kuro be dethroned Now?

[The_Lhc]

strapped for cash:the_lhc:I agree with the point that flatscreens don't do SD pictures as well as a good CRT does but HD is an improvement over any CRT, imo.In every area of performance, the_lhc?

Every area that I care about, based on my own TV, obviously, I'm not going to speak for anyone else's TV.

 

[brendonw]

I didn't think you cared about anything........

 

[The_Lhc]

brendonw:I didn't think you cared about anything........

No, no, anybody...

 

[brendonw]

ha.

 

[carter]

strapped for cash:

So by that rationale every new range of technology is better than its predecessor?

We only have to look at input lag problems with flatscreens compared with CRTs to challenge such a claim. LCD/LED and plasma still cannot match CRT televisions when it comes to motion. Indeed, some videophiles still argue HD simply enables flatscreens to match the standard-def picture quality of CRT sets.

thay would be wrong then.i think people remember crt's being better than thay were

 

[Big Aura]

Apparently Kuro is known as "Elite" in the US, and is making a comeback.

(but will be a re-badged sharp!).

 

[Clare Newsome]

Big Aura:
Apparently Kuro is known as "Elite" in the US, and is making a comeback.

(but will be a re-badged sharp!).

And only LCD. So not a Kuro comeback in any shape or form, really

 

[Big Aura]

reminds me of the local scrap metal dealer with a Rolls Royce spirit of ecstasy on his Rover!

 

[Anonymous]

Big Aura:reminds me of the local scrap metal dealer with a Rolls Royce spirit of ecstasy on his Rover!

which was probably a honda

 

[Andrew Everard]

Big Aura:Apparently Kuro is known as "Elite" in the US, and is making a comeback.

The Pioneer Elite sub-brand predates the Kuro project by at least two decades.

 

[D.J.KRIME]

I personally find it funny just how many people look back at CRT's as if they were perfect in all areas because they weren't. Yes a good CRT will generally give better results over a HD set with SD material because thats exactly what is was designed to do! no upscaling,no de-interlacing and on a smaller screen! but do I long for my old 36" CRT over my 50" full HD plaz whilst watching native HD??? do I heck as like! Yes it may show signs of weekness when displaying a upscaled SD image but seeing as 3/4 of the information the TV is displaying doesn't really exist it's bound to!

 

[jacobmorrison]

The Kuro range was a great example of what a company can do when let off the leash by the bean counters. I remember reading a sneak-peak into what Pioneer had planned for their own 10th generation sets, clever processing that blurred distant objects to throw closer objects into focus, increasing the perception of depth. The reporter said that the result was quite uncanny. 3D without the glasses? I think the Kuro's status was not simply blased on black levels, awesome though they are, but on all-round performance. Their handling of SD content, their up-scaling capability, their wide gamut combined with natural life-life colours, not to mention sound quality that makes modern class-leading tvs sound like £20 i-pod docks, all this made them the ultimate all-round package.Of course there are now tvs that have better detail with blu-ray, some that can handle football and movement better, some can rival the Kuro's black performance, and they all have the multi-media bells and whistles, but what about the rest of what makes a good tv during day-to-day use? I probably spend at least 2/3rds of my viewing time watching both SD and HD content from Sky using the Kuro's built-in speakers, the rest watching DVDs and blu-rays through the home cinema kit. For this I wouldn't swap my 4280 for any of the latest sets. That said, if anyone's fallen out of love with their KRP-500M then I'd be happy to make them an offer!

 

[hammill]

jacobmorrison:The Kuro range was a great example of what a company can do when let off the leash by the bean counters. Yes, make a product that was so expensive to produce they sold it at a loss and had to drop out of the TV business. I love my Kuro, but it was no way to run a business. See also the Bugatti Veyron.

 

[jarra]

Pioneer Kuro 5010 £3000

Pioneer Kuro 6010 £4000

I would save and go for the 6010,and so would lots of others.

Pioneer please come back.

 

[scene]

jacobmorrison:That said, if anyone's fallen out of love with their KRP-500M then I'd be happy to make them an offer!

Short of making someone "an offer they can't refuse", I doubt you'll find many takers

 

[jacobmorrison]

Tell me about it!

 

[StanleyAV]

I get the strong impression that TV manufacturers are more keen to push 3D at the expense of offering genuine revolutionary advancements in TV technology. Not everyone can use 3D or even see it as intended - is this a smart move?

. This strategy will sell a lot of TVs though and that's what they are in business for.

Statement products such as Kuro didn't sell well enough for Pioneer to remain in the business of Plasma TV production. High end plasma TV has probably had its day given the world economic downturn.

Perhaps we have seen the end of high-quality TVs that are excellent in all areas??

 

[Clare Newsome]

And perhaps the world will end next year

Blimey, you're a gloomy bunch

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

Clare Newsome:

And perhaps the world will end next year

Blimey, you're a gloomy bunch

I am positive Clare!

This year will be a great year for TV, more performance and lower costs yet again. The Kuro range has a halo over it but premium sets live on and outclass the mighty Pioneer. Two years ago the Sony X4500 was a match for the Pioneer then Panasonic launched the Z1. This year the Panasonic VT20 and Philips 9 series both offer everything the Pioneer has and more. I can show this first hand - we have all three sets professionally calibrated in the shop right now to demonstrate to our Pioneer customers that there is a screen to upgrade to.

 

[aliEnRIK]

TheHomeCinemaCentre:This year will be a great year for TV, more performance and lower costs yet again. The Kuro range has a halo over it but premium sets live on and outclass the mighty Pioneer. Two years ago the Sony X4500 was a match for the Pioneer

Even for upscaling?

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

Even on upscaling. Whenever we evaluate screens we start with the internal tuner then an external tuner as for most people this is the majority of viewing.

 

[jacobmorrison]

We should use reviews to advise rather than rely on them as gospel, however I went straight to the reviews section of this magazine to have a look at the Panansonic Z1 review:

"compared to a Pioneer Kuro (the flatscreen benchmark for ages now) it's decidedly ordinary.

It's a similar story with DVD pictures. The Z1 upscales confidently, and the same facility with motion and with black shades is in evidence.

Picture noise intrudes more than we were anticipating, mind you, and the relative lack of detail means skin-textures and the like aren't as convincing as they should be"

3 stars for a Kuro upgrade?

 

[StanleyAV]

jacobmorrison:
We should use reviews to advise rather than rely on them as gospel, however I went straight to the reviews section of this magazine to have a look at the Panansonic Z1 review:...........

3 stars for a Kuro upgrade?

Nobody on here described the Z1 as a Kuro upgrade. I own a 46" Z1 : it's horses for courses in my opinion. I much prefer Z1 to the 42" HD ready Kuro models I saw. I also saw the 50" Kuros on dem, and still wasn't wholely convinced, nevermind the price tag!!

In terms of design, I always preferred the Panasonic remote and menus : keep it simple stupid!

, and the Z1 does look much more classy than the Pioneers : the brushed aluminium, rather than a distraction, means I look into an extended letterbox not a frame when viewing (providing the speakers arent fitted).

Technically : we have full HD on both Z1 models, unlike the 1024x768 on the 42" Pio : that does make a perceptable difference with HD, period!!

It's no wonder that Pioneer model had excellent scalers!

it had to scale everything!

There is also the niceity of wireless HD for those that need it.

With some careful mains setup (particularly dealing with RFI), my Z1 isn't too far from the 2010 range, and I get respectable black levels : not average ones as seen on demonstration or as depicted in reviews. Not Kuro levels by any means but good enough for the lighting conditions I view in.

I don't dispute that the Pio's could show my Z1 a few tricks in certain areas, and it is a loss to high end TV without Pioneer. That means very weak competition for Panasonic in plasma. I expect we will get no more than a trickle feed of ex-Pioneer technology in the coming years, if at all!!

Had Pioneer still been a strong market player, gaffes from Panasonic : such as poor 50hz handling, floating blacks, acute dynamic false contours (red/green faces), wouldn't have so easily been excused!!

Strong competition means less complacency when releasing a product!!

I do refer to the gaffes in the 2010 range (not Z1) of course : why else do you think I ended up buying Z1?

There does need to be a new King, then we can enjoy some vigourous competition. I think Panasonic has just usurped the role while Pioneer has been temporarily banished from the kingdom!

 

[The_Lhc]

Stanley, nobody's talking about a 42" HD Ready Pioneer being "King", only the 9th Gen Kuro plasmas, so comparing a Z1 to the earlier model isn't a fair test.

I haven't seen a TV yet that I'd swap my KRP-500A for, certainly not any Panasonic and no LCD display at all.

 

[The_Lhc]

StanleyAV:Nobody on here described the Z1 as a Kuro upgrade.

Well, apart from Nick a few posts before yours...