I confess to loving the sound of my 25 year old Naim amplifier. However, at that age and never having been serviced (hangs head in shame) then it is probably not in peak condition. A service has been quoted as £600 for the pair (NAC62 & NAP90, chrome bumper series). There are pre and power Naim items on the second hand market for similar money, and olive series or newer. Any Naim expert care to voice an opinion on where my money is best spent? Do the later series improve the sound or are my cherished old pair going to knock them dead after a service?
Calling Naim experts
- Thread starter NJB
- Start date
plastic penguin
Well-known member
NJB said:
How do you know it isn't in peak condition? How does it sound to you?
Yes, newer amps should have an improved sound, but what speakers and source do you have?
Al ears
Well-known member
I must admit I am not a Naim expert, I've only heard a couple of systems my mates have had in the past, but if I were in your position I think I would be finding my nearest dealer to audition some modern Naim kit.
If it has the same 'house sound' that you would expect from Naim gear then, looking at the cost of that service, I would sell on your old kit, add whatever you get for it to the £600 you would have spent on the service, and get the most modern equivalents (preferably serviced) you can find for that budget.
But hey, that's just my opinion.
If it has the same 'house sound' that you would expect from Naim gear then, looking at the cost of that service, I would sell on your old kit, add whatever you get for it to the £600 you would have spent on the service, and get the most modern equivalents (preferably serviced) you can find for that budget.
But hey, that's just my opinion.
plastic penguin said:
Well, electronics ages and capacitors and transistors change with time. It is just a guess that under test my kit would not meet the original production standard.
I use an Arcam CD73T and iPod with Pure i20 dock through a Beresford Bushmaster 2 DAC. My speakers are Dynaudio Excite X12 or Epos ES14.
plastic penguin
Well-known member
NJB said:
Logic would say you are correct, but I purchased a Pioneer amp, shop soiled (what a lovely quaint term) back in 1979 and kept it for 17 years. Sounded fine.
I would toddle off to your nearest Audio-T or other Naim stockists and see what they have ex-dem amps.
BTW, does it have to be pre/power combo?
Undoubtedly your 62/90 will be rejuvinated by a full service.
Unlike almost any other manufacturer at their price, Naim will have a record of what exact spec of components your units are fitted with (they have a rig for measuring banks of components that are "supposedly" identical spec, and they bag n tag matched pairs), so will be able to bring it back to original spec and sound.
Their electrolyptic capacitors have an active life of about 12 -15 years, so yours will be REALLY dry! Plus the bridge rectifiers will be well beyond their best.
Bearing that in mind, 2nd hand Naim gear near 10 years old will need a service in 5 years! So that HAS to be factored in.
Current Naim gear has moved forward significantly, with extra body allied to the famous principles of P.R.A.T. (some early Black series Naim was not great - hence why many people are so passionate about the Chrome bumper and Olive series. They've only ever heard "poor" early Black Series)
As a minimum you'd need to look at a 202/200 as a proper step up, but more ideally a 282/250/HicapDR will destroy your current gear (serviced or not!)
Unlike almost any other manufacturer at their price, Naim will have a record of what exact spec of components your units are fitted with (they have a rig for measuring banks of components that are "supposedly" identical spec, and they bag n tag matched pairs), so will be able to bring it back to original spec and sound.
Their electrolyptic capacitors have an active life of about 12 -15 years, so yours will be REALLY dry! Plus the bridge rectifiers will be well beyond their best.
Bearing that in mind, 2nd hand Naim gear near 10 years old will need a service in 5 years! So that HAS to be factored in.
Current Naim gear has moved forward significantly, with extra body allied to the famous principles of P.R.A.T. (some early Black series Naim was not great - hence why many people are so passionate about the Chrome bumper and Olive series. They've only ever heard "poor" early Black Series)
As a minimum you'd need to look at a 202/200 as a proper step up, but more ideally a 282/250/HicapDR will destroy your current gear (serviced or not!)
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
As mentioned, an audition of a few current Naim combos is highly recommended. The Naim sound changed when they moved to the new look, and is now a little more forgiving, and speaker friendly, unlike earlier ranges.
Frankly I would leave well alone.
The price quoted is excessive in my view, I certainly would not pay that for an amplifier of that age. Naim amplifiers of different vintages take people differently, for example I generally prefer 'silverline' to 'olive' so if your combo is working well I would just carry on using it.
In fact I would keep using it until it started to fail, then simply replace it with a more modern design.
If you are looking for a substantial upgrade, then that is another matter.
The price quoted is excessive in my view, I certainly would not pay that for an amplifier of that age. Naim amplifiers of different vintages take people differently, for example I generally prefer 'silverline' to 'olive' so if your combo is working well I would just carry on using it.
In fact I would keep using it until it started to fail, then simply replace it with a more modern design.
If you are looking for a substantial upgrade, then that is another matter.
davedotco said:
Yes, it is an eyewatering amount for something that I might not even hear. It will stop me wondering if it will work every time I turn it on. I think I will stay with it for the moment but start looking about for replacements. If I am lucky then I might find a bargain.
mr_sneff
Well-known member
On the Naim forum the recommendation seems to be to have amps recapped after 10 years, so yours are well overdue. I'm not a Naim expert but if it was me I'd shop around. There are Naim authorised companies capable of servicing the equipment, and other non-Naim authorised companies that could be considerably cheaper. That's assuming you're happy with the Naim sound, from what I've read the Naim sound has changed and the newer kit sounds quite a bit different to the older stuff.
NJB said:
just leave it then. No point in possibly messing up the sound you love and then having to go through the rigmarol of finding a new one or swapping stuff around. If it's 25 years old then you've definetly got your monies worth, and for the 600 quid they are quoting you for a service would probably cover anything that needs repairing should it happen.
/tongue in cheek/ alternatively you could always sell it as "run in"
cheeseboy said:NJB said:
just leave it then. No point in possibly messing up the sound you love and then having to go through the rigmarol of finding a new one or swapping stuff around. If it's 25 years old then you've definetly got your monies worth, and for the 600 quid they are quoting you for a service would probably cover anything that needs repairing should it happen.
/tongue in cheek/ alternatively you could always sell it as "run in"
Thanks Cheeseboy. I think the modern phrase is pre-loved. I know that is sounds a bit dumb, but after having my Naims since I was at Uni then they feel like an important part of my life and I do feel a bit of a traitor to even consider selling them. I have played around with the other system components over the years but have always considered that my amplification was the best I was ever going to be able to afford. I am currently running a set of Dynaudio Excite X12s but might soon revert back to my old Epos ES14s. Nothing wrong with the Excites, and they bounce along quite nicely. However, those Epos cans just seem to have some kind of empathy with the Naim kit and the combination just sounds right.
Thanks for all the advice.
OldHand
Well-known member
There's a very good reason why your Epos "bounce along" with the Naim amps As a tip though go and have a listen to the new range of Naim XS integrated amps along with a Naim CD player. The PRAT ( pace rythmn and timing) which Naim are renowned for is simply superb for the money. Also the sound has changed a lot, for the better. Most of it is due to Naim's extensive work around power supply's and interference reduction.
Don't be sentimental, you wouldnt keep a 25yr old car to drive everyday, so why keep the hi-fi?
As a tip though go and have a listen to the new range of Naim XS integrated amps along with a Naim CD player. The PRAT ( pace rythmn and timing) which Naim are renowned for is simply superb for the money. Also the sound has changed a lot, for the better. Most of it is due to Naim's extensive work around power supply's and interference reduction.Don't be sentimental, you wouldnt keep a 25yr old car to drive everyday, so why keep the hi-fi?
chebby
Well-known member
OldHand said:There's a very good reason why your Epos "bounce along" with the Naim amps
Well I know Naim amplifiers were used when Robin Marshall was making the Mordaunt Short MS20i Pearl Editions, so I assume he favoured them when making his Epos ES14s too.
Interesting comment from a fellow enthusiast. Suggests that the preamp will not have aged as much as the power amp. He thinks I should get a new NAP 100 with my money and he says it will link to my NAC 62 preamp. I am suspicious given the age difference, but he is convinced that the Naim interconnect has not changed. Think I might want to talk to Naim about that idea.
I would speak to Darren at Class A , they are Naim authorised service agents with an excellent reputation and will be cheaper than Naim direct. They quote £129 for the 62 to service but don't list the 90 but I would expect it to be around £179 as this is what they quote for a 110/140.
If you use a non authorised service agent the resale value of your kit will fall like a stone even if they do a good job. People generally want old Naim gear to be virgin and unserviced or serviced by Naim or an approved agent.
Naim gear if serviced goes on forever. I have a friend with a almost 40 year 160 power amp paired with a 12s that still sounds superb and will wipe the floor with most kit available today.
You could look for a used 110/140/160 to replace the 90 and sell this on as it is. The 160 in particular is a very sweet sounding power amp. Add a serviced Hicap into the mix and as long as your source is up to it you will be very pleased.
Richard
If you use a non authorised service agent the resale value of your kit will fall like a stone even if they do a good job. People generally want old Naim gear to be virgin and unserviced or serviced by Naim or an approved agent.
Naim gear if serviced goes on forever. I have a friend with a almost 40 year 160 power amp paired with a 12s that still sounds superb and will wipe the floor with most kit available today.
You could look for a used 110/140/160 to replace the 90 and sell this on as it is. The 160 in particular is a very sweet sounding power amp. Add a serviced Hicap into the mix and as long as your source is up to it you will be very pleased.
Richard
rdmaidment said:
The 12s/160 in original fabricated case was one of my favourite amplifiers of it's time (late 70s). Difficult to compare to modern amplifiers but it stood head and shoulders above pretty much everything in it's day.
A dealer friend had a system that was comfortably better than home system I had heard up until that time, and even then I was no novice, it comprised a LP12/Grace/Supex, 12s/160 and a pair of Quad ELS. Quite superb.
David@FrankHarvey said:
David, an old mate had a 112x/150x combo and that used to sound good but he fed it with a rather dull CD player and so I never formed an opinion of how it compared to my 62/90 set. My gut feel is that something like these would be newer but probably no better sounding. However, they are affordable secondhand. I suspect that I would need to invest a lot more to upgrade
Thanks for all the comments and I am now scouring the adds for a used NAP140 or higher. I am also considering a Nait 5i, which I am being told will give my old 62/90 combination a real challenge as well as being much newer and thus getting me away from the issues of 25 year old gear.
NJB said:
If you can strech your budget go for the the Naim XS2 it's in a completely different league than the 5i much more punch ,details and transparency :rockout:
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