Cables, mains, interconnectors and speaker cables

[hammill]

Cables CAN make a difference though it often has a lot to do with the kit you are using. I have seen evidence that it would be impossible to deny. I have a 5 year old Panasonic plasma. (I know that this thread is about sound however it still illustrates the dramatic effect cables can have) I have seen friends slightly newer tv's and playing gta 4 looked completely different. So much more background detail even though they were using a similar cable. I was thus so disappointed I gambled on a chord active silver hdmi. At the time is was £110! It was probably the best value product I have ever bought. The backgrounds were now clearly visible on gta 4. The difference was starting. If you disagree then please bear in mind that I would definitely have bought a new tv by now without this cable. This may have something to do with my particular tv model but anyone who thinks that a cable can't make a difference is deluding themselves. 2 seconds of footage, with a cheap cable and the chord cable would be enough for ANYONE to see the difference. I really mean 2 seconds, though half a second should be enough! I also swapped to chord odyssey speaker cables for my cm7's and it definitely increased the transparency though not always for the best especially on poorer quality downloads. To reiterate, cables definitely 100%. No point arguing. Can make a difference. It will depend on your equipment but to say it makes no difference which cables are used leaves me a bit embarrassed for the nay sayers as they clearly have not been fortunate enough to be blessed with good hearing. And when it comes to the tv effect on my panny, you relly would need to be partially sighted not to notice the difference!

The nice thing about HDMI cables is they can be tested easily. http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/home-entertainment/1292371/expensive-hdmi-cables-make-no-difference-the-absolute-proof

All certified HDMI cables within a type (http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/finding_right_cable.aspx) are the same.

The chap who runs the company responsible for certifying the cables is on record as saying there is no difference (video is on the forum somewhere)

 

[the record spot]

Will this nonsense never stop ? It's not even funny anymore.

It would be great if cable discussions are not allowed anymore on this forum.

Why do these people who believe in cable differences always feel the need to convince other people ? Why ?

Perhaps you feel this thread was directed at you? I assure you the convincing to you that cables make a difference is the lowest priority of mine, if you live with blinkers on and are not open to new experiences that is quite rightly your choice. You might want to consider that we are experience things differently and that there us no exacting standard to which one can get 100% the same results every time not with differing materials.

enjoy a thread to which you have an opinion as to say another persons experience is false just because you haven't had it is all but vain.

It's the usual thing. You can't hear what I hear, keeping an open mind, all the usual cliches. Now we find our OP has Mains purifiers too. And someone else that says £110 HDMI cable worked wonders. My £95 one didn't compared to my £35 one compared to my Tesco £10 one.

I keep an open mind and am thankful that it remains so, and indeed an inquiring one at that. But I am thankful to the OP and our HDMI wielding friend for highlighting some of the codswallop that afflicts our hobby today.

 

[namefail]

This is at least more tangible than religion!

Religion does exist, but the juries still unsure if there’s a God. Oh, and I do believe in cables, I've seen many of them.

 

[Science Man]

Simple thing, plenty of people can use science and measurements to explain how fit-for-purpose cables are all the same. Cable companies on the other hand do not show any measurements to back up their claims (other than shampoo-ad style graphical bollocks and make-believe pseudo-science) - why do you think this is? You'd think the cable companies could really show the benefit of their product no? Or would it be lies and get then in trouble with trading standards?

Why has no-one taken up James Randi's $1000,000 challenge? You'd think some of the "believers" would be straight over to collect the cash!

This is my question. How come all the proof is on one side? I don't expect a useful answer. The non-believers can back up what they say with facts, ball is in your court believers...

 

[Cypher]

Oh, and I do believe in cables, I've seen many of them.

That was a good one :clap:

 

[MakkaPakka]

This looks a lot like the last cable thread. One person arguing against all comers who line up with a link or an argument yet the OP stands his ground and ends up being responsible for 75% of all the posts.

 

[Golden Ears]

Simple thing, plenty of people can use science and measurements to explain how fit-for-purpose cables are all the same. Cable companies on the other hand do not show any measurements to back up their claims (other than shampoo-ad style graphical bollocks and make-believe pseudo-science) - why do you think this is? You'd think the cable companies could really show the benefit of their product no? Or would it be lies and get then in trouble with trading standards? Why has no-one taken up James Randi's $1000,000 challenge? You'd think some of the "believers" would be straight over to collect the cash! This is my question. How come all the proof is on one side? I don't expect a useful answer. The non-believers can back up what they say with facts, ball is in your court believers...

I do wonder why this is so impossible for those who cannot hear differences. Perhaps they're right they haven't yet! Yes it makes it harder for them to believe. But if your look in black and white you'll soon think it too. The number mean very little when you think about it, you can have to Hifi that can deliver 100w but one sounds better than the other. If they've used parts with the same prating but different brands how could this be possible? These James Randal efforts make me smile. If he's such a science first I'd love him to visit hear and listen to different cables. Perhaps peoples hearing is the issue and that's their down fall. As for trading standards there are cables in use in these products exceeding the minimum conforming standards thus exceeding these minimum requirements which are not the blue print but a standard a cable must meet. Many cables are constructed by more than the bare standard and these have a noticeable (on occasion) difference. So to like cables probably are like but the materials used in construction and conductors are not all alike you'd be completely stupid to think they are. The impact varying conductors have on a signal can be measured but is us audible? There are those claiming it isn't but that through science they have not idea what a given person can perceive harmonically as sound is more than numbers.

So again how can a cable made from tinned copper have exactly the same effect on the audio spectrum as a cable obstructed of copper only, the very definition shows it to be unlikely

 

[Golden Ears]

Will this nonsense never stop ? It's not even funny anymore.

It would be great if cable discussions are not allowed anymore on this forum.

Why do these people who believe in cable differences always feel the need to convince other people ? Why ?

Perhaps you feel this thread was directed at you? I assure you the convincing to you that cables make a difference is the lowest priority of mine, if you live with blinkers on and are not open to new experiences that is quite rightly your choice. You might want to consider that we are experience things differently and that there us no exacting standard to which one can get 100% the same results every time not with differing materials.

enjoy a thread to which you have an opinion as to say another persons experience is false just because you haven't had it is all but vain.

It's the usual thing. You can't hear what I hear, keeping an open mind, all the usual cliches. Now we find our OP has Mains purifiers too. And someone else that says £110 HDMI cable worked wonders. My £95 one didn't compared to my £35 one compared to my Tesco £10 one.

I keep an open mind and am thankful that it remains so, and indeed an inquiring one at that. But I am thankful to the OP and our HDMI wielding friend for highlighting some of the codswallop that afflicts our hobby today.

the industry is full of products performing little if at all different from each other, does mean all are doing so. Like not all cars perform the same, not all clothes last as long as others. Too many factors that too many ignore. They don't need to care nor believe. I'm happy existing in my bubbie as apparently I do. If you feel so wrongly lead on by the industry that us sad. There are sharks in every ocean

 

[Covenanter]

This thread is slightly different as the main protagonist seems to think he has special hearing. As it happens I'm 100% with him in thinking he can hear things that others can't.

Chris

 

[Golden Ears]

This looks a lot like the last cable thread. One person arguing against all comers who line up with a link or an argument yet the OP stands his ground and ends up being responsible for 75% of all the posts.

god knows where the bile is being dredged from. So many passionate disbelievers resulting yo numbers as if they listen with numbers & see through numbers. I'm almost begging to think there are bots existing in the real life and on the forum. It's incredible that another person can insist that another cannot, has not or is incapable of doing anything just because of their inanity to do so.

at the bpvety least the non believers should post with "I've never heard anyhpthing and it all sound s fishy to me" that's absolutely possible but to sit with science of which is like laying scientists end on end from Norway to England they still wouldn't reach a conclusion.,

 

[Golden Ears]

This thread is slightly different as the main protagonist seems to think he has special hearing. As it happens I'm 100% with him in thinking he can hear things that others can't. Chris

:clap: :clap: funniest reply yet! Regardless it's a hard sell to the broke, especially those without interest )

 

[pauln]

So again how can a cable made from tinned copper have exactly the same effect on the audio spectrum as a cable obstructed of copper only, the very definition shows it to be unlikely

Cables do NOT carry audio - they simply conduct electricity. Easily measured, common, ordinary electricity! The speakers convert the electrical signal to sound waves.

And you've evaded answering the question about taking the James Randall challenge - put your money where your mouth is and back up your claims with something solid rather than anecdotal evidence.

I rather suspect that you are just another attention seeking troll. We have no idea if anything you say about yourself is true or not.

 

[hammill]

So again how can a cable made from tinned copper have exactly the same effect on the audio spectrum as a cable obstructed of copper only, the very definition shows it to be unlikely

Cables do NOT carry audio - they simply conduct electricity. Easily measured, common, ordinary electricity! The speakers convert the electrical signal to sound waves.

And you've evaded answering the question about taking the James Randall challenge - put your money where your mouth is and back up your claims with something solid rather than anecdotal evidence.

I rather suspect that you are just another attention seeking troll. We have no idea if anything you say about yourself is true or not.

Mr Ears seems to me like a number of Christians I know. Clearly misguided in their beliefs, but nevertheless sincere and otherwise decent. I don't think there is any need to insult him.

 

[spiny norman]

the James Randall challenge

Is he the private detective who thinks he can see the ghost of his dead partner? Or did you type the correct name and somehow it got changed in transmission? :?

 

[professorhat]

I'm not sure we should be encouraging people to take part in the James Randall challenge...

 

[The_Lhc]

Why are these people who believe in cable differences incapable of constructing a proper sentence? Why ?

I fixed your post for you...

I guess the English teacher has arrived. Ones ability to converse without the need to play on others lack of ability to form a sentenance upto to your high standards is sadly something which you'll have to become acustom too to. Such is life when people from different countries communicate, the need to belittle their attemps by pointing to grammatical, spelling and indeed other errors goes to show the lack of ones ability to harmonize with others. There's hardly a person on this planet that can exist without make ping some if not all of these errors.

Back to the subject please! I'm looking for constructive not destructive I out

My point is it's difficult to argue with someone that doesn't make any sense and you read like someone that doesn't bother finishing one sentence before starting the next one. It doesn't make your opinion look like it's worth considering but that's your problem, not mine.

 

[Golden Ears]

So again how can a cable made from tinned copper have exactly the same effect on the audio spectrum as a cable obstructed of copper only, the very definition shows it to be unlikely

Cables do NOT carry audio - they simply conduct electricity. Easily measured, common, ordinary electricity! The speakers convert the electrical signal to sound waves.

And you've evaded answering the question about taking the James Randall challenge - put your money where your mouth is and back up your claims with something solid rather than anecdotal evidence.

I rather suspect that you are just another attention seeking troll. We have no idea if anything you say about yourself is true or not.

I assume that you're a firm believer ifpn what you've written here? If everything was you easily measurable and predictable then every single component would deliver the same result each time. That is not true. If you've a speaker claim 20hz - 30khz response and you change it fir another brand with those claims I guess you believe they'll sound exactly alike? If you'd start at the beginning of the thread I guess you retract the attention seeking statement. This became some ridiculous thread blown out in all ways possible. There's a side of people claiming they know what I can and can not experience as clearly they've lived my life and are my clones, there's some genuine input and there's very little saying they've heard differences.

as for the carrying of audio the audio signal is in the transmission. It's quality and integrity is in fact bake to be impacted upon by measurable parameters and these signal degrading things are what may or may not have a perceivable, audible difference.

 

[Golden Ears]

Why are these people who believe in cable differences incapable of constructing a proper sentence? Why ?

I fixed your post for you...

I guess the English teacher has arrived. Ones ability to converse without the need to play on others lack of ability to form a sentenance upto to your high standards is sadly something which you'll have to become acustom too to. Such is life when people from different countries communicate, the need to belittle their attemps by pointing to grammatical, spelling and indeed other errors goes to show the lack of ones ability to harmonize with others. There's hardly a person on this planet that can exist without make ping some if not all of these errors.

Back to the subject please! I'm looking for constructive not destructive I out

My point is it's difficult to argue with someone that doesn't make any sense and you read like someone that doesn't bother finishing one sentence before starting the next one. It doesn't make your opinion look like it's worth considering but that's your problem, not mine.

My spelling errors etc might be expected given my geographical location etc, as for opinions I'm voicing none I'm quoting my experiences with hearing differing sound when changing cables. I base thus on fact not here say. I sit by my beliefs and use no others to sway what I have experienced. That is the only thing i aphave to go by and do not suit behind otters experiences nor test results.

 

[Science Man]

Simple thing, plenty of people can use science and measurements to explain how fit-for-purpose cables are all the same. Cable companies on the other hand do not show any measurements to back up their claims (other than shampoo-ad style graphical bollocks and make-believe pseudo-science) - why do you think this is? You'd think the cable companies could really show the benefit of their product no? Or would it be lies and get then in trouble with trading standards? Why has no-one taken up James Randi's $1000,000 challenge? You'd think some of the "believers" would be straight over to collect the cash! This is my question. How come all the proof is on one side? I don't expect a useful answer. The non-believers can back up what they say with facts, ball is in your court believers...

I do wonder why this is so impossible for those who cannot hear differences. Perhaps they're right they haven't yet! Yes it makes it harder for them to believe. But if your look in black and white you'll soon think it too. The number mean very little when you think about it, you can have to Hifi that can deliver 100w but one sounds better than the other. If they've used parts with the same prating but different brands how could this be possible? These James Randal efforts make me smile. If he's such a science first I'd love him to visit hear and listen to different cables. Perhaps peoples hearing is the issue and that's their down fall. As for trading standards there are cables in use in these products exceeding the minimum conforming standards thus exceeding these minimum requirements which are not the blue print but a standard a cable must meet. Many cables are constructed by more than the bare standard and these have a noticeable (on occasion) difference. So to like cables probably are like but the materials used in construction and conductors are not all alike you'd be completely stupid to think they are. The impact varying conductors have on a signal can be measured but is us audible? There are those claiming it isn't but that through science they have not idea what a given person can perceive harmonically as sound is more than numbers.

So again how can a cable made from tinned copper have exactly the same effect on the audio spectrum as a cable obstructed of copper only, the very definition shows it to be unlikely

Ok, I'm not going to pretend to understand exactly what you've said but since English isn't your first language that's not your fault.

What I can say is that with a group of people who thought cables did make a difference (despite the facts) we conducted a blind test, a proper one with multiple swaps and AB comparisons with the listeners unaware of what cables were being used. Under these conditions NONE of us could reliably tell any differences in either interconnect or speaker cable. This was an expensive system, the cables varied from freebie interconnects to £1500 speaker cables. That's my experience of it.

When you factor in science and measurements it backs up that test, which is what science is useful for. The people who believe in the differences can't back up their findings with anything.

As a previous poster said, it's electricity - does your kettle boil faster with a new cable? Audio signals aren't special, they're electricity and the well known rules of physics still apply.

 

[pauln]

the James Randall challenge

Is he the private detective who thinks he can see the ghost of his dead partner? Or did you type the correct name and somehow it got changed in transmission? :?

That was Jeff Randall and it was one of my favourite shows. Must have not been concentrating when I typed that. Randi, of course.

 

[floyd droid]

Just having another little sing song

Don't be surprised when a crack in the ice

Appears under your feet

You slip out of your depth and out of your mind

With your fear flowing out behind you

As you claw the thin ice.

Carry on chappies.

 

[fr0g]

Simple thing, plenty of people can use science and measurements to explain how fit-for-purpose cables are all the same. Cable companies on the other hand do not show any measurements to back up their claims (other than shampoo-ad style graphical bollocks and make-believe pseudo-science) - why do you think this is? You'd think the cable companies could really show the benefit of their product no? Or would it be lies and get then in trouble with trading standards? Why has no-one taken up James Randi's $1000,000 challenge? You'd think some of the "believers" would be straight over to collect the cash! This is my question. How come all the proof is on one side? I don't expect a useful answer. The non-believers can back up what they say with facts, ball is in your court believers...

I do wonder why this is so impossible for those who cannot hear differences. Perhaps they're right they haven't yet! Yes it makes it harder for them to believe. But if your look in black and white you'll soon think it too. The number mean very little when you think about it, you can have to Hifi that can deliver 100w but one sounds better than the other. If they've used parts with the same prating but different brands how could this be possible? These James Randal efforts make me smile. If he's such a science first I'd love him to visit hear and listen to different cables. Perhaps peoples hearing is the issue and that's their down fall. As for trading standards there are cables in use in these products exceeding the minimum conforming standards thus exceeding these minimum requirements which are not the blue print but a standard a cable must meet. Many cables are constructed by more than the bare standard and these have a noticeable (on occasion) difference. So to like cables probably are like but the materials used in construction and conductors are not all alike you'd be completely stupid to think they are. The impact varying conductors have on a signal can be measured but is us audible? There are those claiming it isn't but that through science they have not idea what a given person can perceive harmonically as sound is more than numbers.

So again how can a cable made from tinned copper have exactly the same effect on the audio spectrum as a cable obstructed of copper only, the very definition shows it to be unlikely

Ok, I'm not going to pretend to understand exactly what you've said but since English isn't your first language that's not your fault. What I can say is that with a group of people who thought cables did make a difference (despite the facts) we conducted a blind test, a proper one with multiple swaps and AB comparisons with the listeners unaware of what cables were being used. Under these conditions NONE of us could reliably tell any differences in either interconnect or speaker cable. This was an expensive system, the cables varied from freebie interconnects to £1500 speaker cables. That's my experience of it. When you factor in science and measurements it backs up that test, which is what science is useful for. The people who believe in the differences can't back up their findings with anything. As a previous poster said, it's electricity - does your kettle boil faster with a new cable? Audio signals aren't special, they're electricity and the well known rules of physics still apply.

Exactly this....

Mr GoldenEars... One day, I really hope you take up this type of challenge. And when you do, like me you will realise what a shmuck you've been and how much time, energy and money you have flushed down the toilet in the pursuit of a myth.

Not to mention your poor wife having to put up with this obsessive nonsense...

 

[spiny norman]

That was Jeff Randall and it was one of my favourite shows.

You're not the only one who enjoys the business news

 

[pauln]

If you've a speaker claim 20hz - 30khz response and you change it fir another brand with those claims I guess you believe they'll sound exactly alike?

No - that's a ridiculous comparison and has nothing to do with my point about electricity.

My "troll" remark was because I assumed that if you had done the slightest bit of research into cables on this forum you would know exactly what the likely response to your first post would be and therefore have thought better of it. I considered it to be a provocative post, designed, in a disingenuous fashion IMO, to elicit exactly the response it has received.

 

[The_Lhc]

That was Jeff Randall and it was one of my favourite shows.

You're not the only one who enjoys the business news

He sees dead people?