Building a replacement system due to house fire.

[hybridauth_Google_115464609748744551243]

Hi all

Due to recent house fire, where my hi-fi system was severly smoke damaged and written off, I'm in the fortunate position of having some money to spend on building a replacment system. I have £2200 to spend with the room its going to be used in 37ft x 15 ft and I do occassionally like to crank the volume up loud. My music is 90% streamed from itunes (airplay) either by network cable or wifi and I also have the option of aptx bluetooth. I'm not looking for a multiroom system nor do I need radio or DAB as I live in the middle of no-where and no reception (nor mobile signal either !). The option to use headphones would be an advantage.

As you may guess I haven't got a clue where to start and would consider seperates through to systems such as the Naim Mu-So, Ruark R7, B&O A9 etc. I would really appreciate some suggestions so I can cut down the list of systems to go and audition.

Many thanks

Kevin.

 

[davedotco]

An awful lot really does depend on what it is you want out of a system.

In no particular order, are looks important, what about branding, performance, convenience, connectivity etc.

Given your just over £2k budget, the choice for me would be straightforward, a pair of AVI ADM10s, one of the new BK P12-300 subs and a decent streamer from any of the mainstream manufacturers.

Pretty much everything controls from a tablet, the streamer should have Airplay, Bluetooth, Spotify Connect and other services built in and connect to the ADMs via toslink. Spare inputs to connect a TV or cd player if you fancy, but otherwise very minimalist with a great performance for the money.

If playing quite loud is important, a good alternative would be the Yamaha WXC50 streamer/pre-amp and a pair of ADAM A8x actives, (if you can manage the rather industrial looks), add the aforementioned sub if you wish, still well within budget, fantastic given your room size.

 

[avole]

Technically more advanced than the AVI and of equal quality, they include bluetooth, don't require a cable to the slave and have more inputs.

Most Dynaudio dealers should have them on demo.

 

[luckylion100]

Davedotco's first recommendation, simply because that's my current kit. The DM10's paired with the Yamaha WXC50 pre/streamer is a stunning combination! Previously I've had decent enough speakers from the likes of Q Acoustics, Concept 20's and PMC both the GB1's and Twenty 23's models, amplification from Marantz and Roksan (intergrated and power) with the Pioneer N50 providing streaming duties.

The DM10/Yamaha combo easily surpass all the rest in terms of sheer quality and ease of use. My turntable and phono preamp are connected to the Yamaha and couple well if you were ever going to go vinyl, Higly recommended, recommended because I use these daily and love the leap in sonic performance and convenience. And trust me these things can go loud and offer bass aplenty. I will add a sub myself but need to move first, in my current room it's not yet required.

As for the Dynaudio recommendation, no idea as I haven't experienced them, so won't comment.but I'm sure they could also provide an satisfactory solution. With your budget though you should seriously consider some decent actives, you wouldn't regret it.

 

[lindsayt]

I suppose it's in the nature of What Hi-fi forum "I've got £X. What should I buy?" type threads that a lot of the replies will be along the lines of "Buy what I've bought" or "Buy what I would buy".

As Davedotco pointed out, at the moment, we do not know where Kevin's priorities are with regards to sound quality per pound spent, looks, size, guarantees. We don't know if the speakers will be firing across his room or down the considerable length or either depending on what sounds best. We don't know what equipment he had before and how happy he was with it all.

The recommendations made so far in this thread may well be just right for Kevin. Or they may be rather sub-optimum.

Davedotco and luckylion100 - have either of you ever compared the DM10's with sub to any better sounding speakers? If yes, in order to allow Kevin to make a fully informed decision it would help if you described the good and bad aspects of the DM10's with sub. If you haven't done such a comparison, then I would recommend that you go ahead and do so before giving out buying advice on them, and that Kevin should be extremely cautious in taking advice from you on these speakers.

Avole, have you compared the Dynaudio Xeo 2 speakers to DM10's with sub? It's possible the DM10's sound better as the use of "technology" is no guarantee of good sound. Also, have you compared the Xeo's to any better sounding speakers?

 

[davedotco]

Technically more advanced than the AVI and of equal quality, they include bluetooth, don't require a cable to the slave and have more inputs.

Most Dynaudio dealers should have them on demo.

I am a big fan of Dynaudio, I think they make great products. The XEO2/Connect setup is just under £1300 and a very viable option, paticularly when used wirelessly. The fact that everything can be controlled via a single app is a big advantage too.

That said, the Connect is limited in terms of it's built in functionality but at the price it is very good value, for my own use the XEO/Connect setup is all I would need, though I would need to add Airplay or digital radio which is not difficult.

Given the room size a subwoofer may be required, expensive as the only options are Dynaudio wireless models, there is no facility to connect a 'regular' subwoofer as far as I can see.

Personally I think that, performance wise ADMs are superior (my experience is mainly with the '9Ts and the 10s are supposed to be better) but I totally accept that this is a subjective assessment and that views will differ.

 

[matthewpiano]

What was the system you had that was damaged, and what did you like/dislike about it?

 

[luckylion100]

My recommendation is purely a thumbs up in agreement of Davedotco's suggestion, based on the OP's initial post. I've listed some of the speakers I've owned before and the only comparison I can make is to them. Obviously I've had limited exposure to different brands and speaker types compared to many on here. I unlike some don't proclaim to be the oracle of perfect musical reproduction in a domestic enviroment. We recommend what we know, what we've had personal experience of, it's a natural response to such a question.

Avole is seemingly besotted with Dynaudio, great I'm sure they're wonderful in his surroundings and set up. You yourself a champion of ancient monolithic speakers, they work for you, fantastic. Go ahead recommend what you know too. At the end of the day the OP needs to go and start auditioning but I gather he was drawing up a general short list in order to assist in this. Hence people toying with recommendations, not the definitive answer to his question.

I wasn't suggesting he ploughs his funds into anything, let alone the most hated (on this forum) brand of all. Davedotco suggested I look into the AVI DM10's when I was toying with the idea of active, something I'd never really considered previously, right now I thank him for that. A great suggestion, no arms being twisted behind my back, just my eyes and eventually ears opened to an alternative route. I wonder if the same response would have been forthcoming if I'd recommended PMC, KEF or Sonus Faber?

 

[lindsayt]

...I wasn't suggesting he ploughs his funds into anything, let alone the most hated (on this forum) brand of all...

Really?

I'll highlight a few phrases in bold:

Davedotco's first recommendation, simply because that's my current kit. The DM10's paired with the Yamaha WXC50 pre/streamer is a stunning combination! Previously I've had decent enough speakers from the likes of Q Acoustics, Concept 20's and PMC both the GB1's and Twenty 23's models, amplification from Marantz and Roksan (intergrated and power) with the Pioneer N50 providing streaming duties.

The DM10/Yamaha combo easily surpass all the rest in terms of sheer quality and ease of use. My turntable and phono preamp are connected to the Yamaha and couple well if you were ever going to go vinyl, Higly recommended, recommended because I use these daily and love the leap in sonic performance and convenience. And trust me these things can go loud and offer bass aplenty. I will add a sub myself but need to move first, in my current room it's not yet required.

As for the Dynaudio recommendation, no idea as I haven't experienced them, so won't comment.but I'm sure they could also provide an satisfactory solution. With your budget though you should seriously consider some decent actives, you wouldn't regret it.

All the phrases I've higlighted in bold are a eulogy to DM10's amounting to a firm suggestion that he should go ahead and plough his funds into them.

I wouldn't feel comfortable recommending ANY equipment to Kevin until I know where his priorities lie.

 

[hybridauth_Google_115464609748744551243]

Thanks everyone. To give some more info, my priorities are in this order:

1. Sound Quality

2. Aesthetics

3. Volume

The system will be firing long ways down the room however I don't need it to be LOUD at the far end. I've had a number of systems over the last couple of years and went from a Cyrus seperates + Spendor system to Spendor 6Se's powered using a Chord Electronics Chordette Maxx (it was this system that that was written off). This wasn't powerful enough for the room and limited to APTx as USB connection wasn't near enough to a device. It was the system I had when I moved in to the house though and overdue a change including technology wise.

 

[avole]

IAvole, have you compared the Dynaudio Xeo 2 speakers to DM10's with sub? It's possible the DM10's sound better as the use of "technology" is no guarantee of good sound. Also, have you compared the Xeo's to any better sounding speakers?

And what would you suggest as "better sounding speakers"?? Yes, in the way that I've compared my Skoda to a Bentley, but that didn't prove much. The Bentley was better, but didn't have a towbar so useless to me, plus stupidly over my budget. Comparing the Dynaudios to the Triangle Cellos was similar - no, neither had towbars but one is huge and wouldn't go near fitting in my room.

No-one has, to my knowledge, done a direct comparison of the Dynaudios and AVIs. In fact, it is nigh on impossible to compare the AVIs with anything else, since dealers do not stock them in France, and there's only 1 dealer in the whole of mainland Europe.

By the way, I thought the Devialet Phantoms were better, but they are thrice the price, and, at that time, were limited in connectivity. They now have airplay, so, if the new resto works out, I might have a look at them rather than the Dyns for use there.

 

[avole]

Thanks everyone. To give some more info, my priorities are in this order:

1. Sound Quality

2. Aesthetics

3. Volume

The system will be firing long ways down the room however I don't need it to be LOUD at the far end. I've had a number of systems over the last couple of years and went from a Cyrus seperates + Spendor system to Spendor 6Se's powered using a Chord Electronics Chordette Maxx (it was this system that that was written off). This wasn't powerful enough for the room and limited to APTx as USB connection wasn't near enough to a device. It was the system I had when I moved in to the house though and overdue a change including technology wise.

Possibly wireless is the way to go if it is new technology you want, then, or Bluetooth. There are now a number of options available, from Dynaudio who have a complete range through, through Focal to Yamaha and KEF. Note that floorstanders, which would do well in your room, are going to be pushing through you budget ceiling.

Alternatively, if you want a separate amp and speakers, a suitably powerful amp with the Neat Motives are good. You can add a bluetooth receiver to just about any amp that doesn't have one, while AppleTV covers airplay - think quite a few amps to have airplay built-in, certainly some AV ones do.

Can't recommend an amp - beginning to think that if they're powerful enough and have similarly low distortion, you're not going to hear much difference.

If you can wait until next March, then Hifiwigwam run a show at Scalford which allows you to hear lots of users' systems. This year they're allowing more trade, which should make it even more interesting.

 

[muljao]

Is the Onkyo TX-8150 to pedestrian for your needs, it seems to tick all your boxes. Set with a nice set of floorstanders in the 1000 range and you might be onto a winner

 

[Blacksabbath25]

My advice is just get to your local hifi shop .

try as meany speakers and amps as possible take some cds with you of your favorite music

do not be pushed into what the dealer likes have a rough idea what you kind of want and demo it .

try to get a home demo on the amp and speakers you are interested in on sale or return as things can sound different at home and you will not lose your money if you hate the sound ones your got it at home .

do not buy blind on the internet when buying hifi as you could get it wrong as this is a big gamble on getting the perfect setup .

Most of us on here can only say about stuff we have owned ourselves but will not necessarily mean you will like the sound so demo ! It's important .

 

[CnoEvil]

My suggestion: Arcam A29 + Kef R300 + Streamer. A BK Sub could be added at a later date if necessary, though the R300s pack quite a punch for a Standmount.

 

[lindsayt]

IAvole, have you compared the Dynaudio Xeo 2 speakers to DM10's with sub? It's possible the DM10's sound better as the use of "technology" is no guarantee of good sound. Also, have you compared the Xeo's to any better sounding speakers?

And what would you suggest as "better sounding speakers"?? Yes, in the way that I've compared my Skoda to a Bentley, but that didn't prove much. The Bentley was better, but didn't have a towbar so useless to me, plus stupidly over my budget. Comparing the Dynaudios to the Triangle Cellos was similar - no, neither had towbars but one is huge and wouldn't go near fitting in my room.

No-one has, to my knowledge, done a direct comparison of the Dynaudios and AVIs. In fact, it is nigh on impossible to compare the AVIs with anything else, since dealers do not stock them in France, and there's only 1 dealer in the whole of mainland Europe.

By the way, I thought the Devialet Phantoms were better, but they are thrice the price, and, at that time, were limited in connectivity. They now have airplay, so, if the new resto works out, I might have a look at them rather than the Dyns for use there.

Avole, your car analogy simply does not apply here. Kevin has a very large room. His main priority is sound quality. So, with your car analogy, Kevin does have the garage space for a Bentley. In the world of hi-fi his Bentley can come with a tow-bar fitted and it can cost less than your Skoda and cost the same to run.

If you haven't compared the Xeo 2's to the DM10's then you are just guessing. Guessing which tiny 2 way ported speaker will sound better. When you bear in mind that it's Kevin that will be spending his money, not you, I think it's mischevious of you to guess with someone else's money.

If the Phantoms are better than Xeo 2's then the Dynaudios must be pants in the sound quality department.

 

[lindsayt]

My advice is just get to your local hifi shop .

try as meany speakers and amps as possible take some cds with you of your favorite music

do not be pushed into what the dealer likes have a rough idea what you kind of want and demo it .

try to get a home demo on the amp and speakers you are interested in on sale or return as things can sound different at home and you will not lose your money if you hate the sound ones your got it at home .

do not buy blind on the internet when buying hifi as you could get it wrong as this is a big gamble on getting the perfect setup .

Most of us on here can only say about stuff we have owned ourselves but will not necessarily mean you will like the sound so demo ! It's important .

Given Kevin's room, budget and highest priority being Sound Quality, that is terrible advice.

His dealer will, stock a load of slimline ported speakers that will fit into his budget. Relatively speaking, none of them will sound very good. Especially not in his room.

Whatsmore, anything he buys from a dealer will suffer from large instant depreciation, followed by more depreciation year on year for the next 10 to 20 years.

If Kevin follows the advice of someone that knows what they're talking about, there will be minimal risk in buying blind from the internet. I would take that any day over the 100% certainty of buying mediocre sound for his money from a dealers.

 

[tino]

If you could stretch the budget a little, perhaps a pair of Devialet Phantoms could work for you. The cheaper "750W" version. They have aptx Bluetooth as well.

 

[lindsayt]

My advice to Kevin would be the same as I gave to trevorok in post #8 of this thread:

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/sweeter-and-warmer-sound

With Aesthetics being 2nd in Kevin's priority that would probably lead to speakers like the Altec 604, with grills being a good choice for him.

One big advantage of Tom Brennan type speakers is that they are not amplifier fussy. Just about any fully working Class A or Class A/B amplifier, including many costing less than £100 (2nd hand) will be fine.

 

[lindsayt]

If you could stretch the budget a little, perhaps a pair of Devialet Phantoms could work for you. The cheaper "750W" version. They have aptx Bluetooth as well.

Phantoms should be ruled out straight away on the basis of: 1 Sound Quality.

 

[avole]

IAvole, have you compared the Dynaudio Xeo 2 speakers to DM10's with sub? It's possible the DM10's sound better as the use of "technology" is no guarantee of good sound. Also, have you compared the Xeo's to any better sounding speakers?

And what would you suggest as "better sounding speakers"?? Yes, in the way that I've compared my Skoda to a Bentley, but that didn't prove much. The Bentley was better, but didn't have a towbar so useless to me, plus stupidly over my budget. Comparing the Dynaudios to the Triangle Cellos was similar - no, neither had towbars but one is huge and wouldn't go near fitting in my room.

No-one has, to my knowledge, done a direct comparison of the Dynaudios and AVIs. In fact, it is nigh on impossible to compare the AVIs with anything else, since dealers do not stock them in France, and there's only 1 dealer in the whole of mainland Europe.

By the way, I thought the Devialet Phantoms were better, but they are thrice the price, and, at that time, were limited in connectivity. They now have airplay, so, if the new resto works out, I might have a look at them rather than the Dyns for use there.

Avole, your car analogy simply does not apply here. Kevin has a very large room. His main priority is sound quality. So, with your car analogy, Kevin does have the garage space for a Bentley. In the world of hi-fi his Bentley can come with a tow-bar fitted and it can cost less than your Skoda and cost the same to run.

If you haven't compared the Xeo 2's to the DM10's then you are just guessing. Guessing which tiny 2 way ported speaker will sound better. When you bear in mind that it's Kevin that will be spending his money, not you, I think it's mischevious of you to guess with someone else's money.

If the Phantoms are better than Xeo 2's then the Dynaudios must be pants in the sound quality department.

You're not helping the topic with your attacks on poster and negativity regarding demo and buying new. You must also allow other people to have opinions, plus realise that close reading of the OPs posts are a necessity if you want to give relevant answers. Also Altec 604 aesthetically pleasing, Linsayt, was this a joke?

To the OP, secondhand is an option, indeed, I bought my speakers* that way, and they're undoubtedly the best looking and sounding small speakers in the world. However, home demos are nigh on impossible with secondhand, plus there is a large risk factor as age treats nothing kindly. If you can afford new, go for it, and there's nothing like the comfort of a decent warranty. Listen at hifi shops as rightly recommended, and see if you can organise home demos.

* not recommending them because they don't do loud.

 

[lindsayt]

Avole, I'm helping Kevin a lot more than any other poster so far this thread. And certainly far more than you have done so far.

I have not made any attacks whatsoever on posters. I have criticised a lot of the things that have been said so far in this thread. If I am to give Kevin the very best advice I can, then criticising sub-optimum advice is unavoidable.

I've read carefully everything that Kevin's said so far. Given his very long room size, his comments about his previous systems, his budget, and above all, his number 1 priority being Sound Quality, your suggestions so far are inappropriate. As is the suggestion to go to a dealer.

When buying 2nd hand my advice is to always try to buy items that are selling at below the going rate. In that way there is zero risk. If you don't like the item - for whatever reason - sell it on for a small profit. With Tom Brennan type speakers, there is NOTHING that can go wrong with them that is not easily and relatively cheaply fixable.

I know that from first hand experience of buying speakers that were in about as bad a state as speakers can be whilst still being worth £415. Cost me about £80 in parts plus a few hours of my time to fix them up.

In the context of 2 speakers that will sit with their backs to the wall at the end of a 37' long room I can see nothing particularly displeasing about Altec 604's with their grills on as per the speaker on the left in this photo:

If you don't like the look of them, that's fine. That's your taste. I personally don't like the look of Dynaudio Xeo 2's as they look like small cheap hamster coffin speakers to me.

And there's nothing to stop Kevin from hosting a bake-off. If he lives near me I'd be happy to take a £600 system round. IE to put a system where my mouth is.

 

[tonky]

Plenty of room for that system in your mouth Eh?

Nothing wrong with a good dealer and demoing at home? What's the problem with that?

jeez! some people! tonky

 

[davedotco]

If you have not already given up on this post, it would be best if you were to give a little more information regarding the functionality and the looks of what you want in your home.

I'm afraid a lot of folks on here push their own agenda, I might even have started it with my suggestion for active speakers, who knows...*unknw*

A lot will depend on what sort of system you want, you might prefer a set of normal 'separates' or you might want a minimalist approach controlled by a tablet, there are plenty of things to consider before you even get round to auditioning for sound quality.

If you plan on using primarily iTunes then clearly there will be a computer involved, if your liprary is relatively modest then it can fit onto a hand held device and stream via Bluetooth to a suitably equiped dac or amplifier, if it is large then perhaps a NAS drive needs to be used.

What about streaming? Starting virtually from scratch you might want to consider signing up with a streaming service such as Spotify or Tidal. Both these services are integrated into many streamers, amps etc removing the need for a separate computer yet still capable of streaming from a local iTunes library.

This explains the popularity of the new Yamaha WXC50, all this functionality and more for just £300, something of a bargain in current market. This leaves you the bulk of the budget for amp and speakers, whether new or used, passive with conventional amp or active. The WXC50 acts as a pre-amp, so you only need a power amp and speakers hence the elegance of using active speakers.

A system that can do virtually everything, controlled from a tablet and nothing to see bar a pair of speakers, the WXC50 can be hidden away with your router. (my setup is exactly like that, except I use the cheaper less flexible Raumfeld Connector hidden away with just my Adam speakers on view.)

 

[drummerman]

Have I missed anything?

Are we talking cables yet?