I'm writing a paper on the manner in which hi def televisions and blu ray have changed the way viewers interpret films. It's interesting to see people advocating blu ray purchases primarily on the 'reference' quality picture and not the perceived artistic quality of a film. Keep at it... the more posts the better. For me, this actually qualifies as research!
professorhat
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To be fair though, this is a thread specifically asking about Blu-Ray films which show off the format for a new purchaser - so it's a fairly biased piece of evidence to be basing research on.
Whilst I love the format for its crystal clear pictures and awesome sound, it hasn't changed my tastes. What it has done is help me get further immersed in the story I'm watching - the ideal situation for a movie lover!
Whilst I love the format for its crystal clear pictures and awesome sound, it hasn't changed my tastes. What it has done is help me get further immersed in the story I'm watching - the ideal situation for a movie lover!
dcanham001
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hi strapped for cash
Surely the only reason you'd buy blu ray is for the picture and sound quality improvement (as prof says this has knock-on effects like becoming more immersed in the film) theres no real other difference between blu ray and dvd (apart from BD live and long loading times)
personally i've never bought a film on blu ray that i havent previously seen (and already know i love)
Surely the only reason you'd buy blu ray is for the picture and sound quality improvement (as prof says this has knock-on effects like becoming more immersed in the film) theres no real other difference between blu ray and dvd (apart from BD live and long loading times)
personally i've never bought a film on blu ray that i havent previously seen (and already know i love)
Thanks for the reply Prof.
I'm starting from the perspective that all interpretation is valid, and though you argue that the format hasn't changed your tastes, the quality of the picture and sound still presumably informs which of your favourite films you choose to purchase on blu ray. Besides, several of the films referenced on this thread are hardly the most memorable cinematic experiences: 'Knowing' -- which is mentioned by many people posting as an outstanding blu ray purchase -- was hardly a landmark in film history (no offence to fans). I've also seen posts about 'Alien vs. Predator: Requiem' as a great blu ray to showcase your system.
My point is that certain consumer sections are using subtly different criteria to decide which films to buy; and for owners of hi def televisions and blu ray players, the image and sound quality have become as important -- and in some cases more so -- than the quality of the film itself.
]
I'm starting from the perspective that all interpretation is valid, and though you argue that the format hasn't changed your tastes, the quality of the picture and sound still presumably informs which of your favourite films you choose to purchase on blu ray. Besides, several of the films referenced on this thread are hardly the most memorable cinematic experiences: 'Knowing' -- which is mentioned by many people posting as an outstanding blu ray purchase -- was hardly a landmark in film history (no offence to fans). I've also seen posts about 'Alien vs. Predator: Requiem' as a great blu ray to showcase your system.
My point is that certain consumer sections are using subtly different criteria to decide which films to buy; and for owners of hi def televisions and blu ray players, the image and sound quality have become as important -- and in some cases more so -- than the quality of the film itself.
]
Thanks for the reply as well dangalf.
Just to clarify, it's not my contention that people will buy a film that they think is terrible just because it has a really good picture -- I genuinely believe that the vast majority of posters on this forum are more discerning than that.
I still think that the advent of hi def subtly influences our purchses, however, and we're unlikely to buy a blu ray that hasn't received a good write-up with regard to its digital presentation, so picture and sound quality still act as markers of distinction that shape our behaviour as consumers.
One particular question springs to mind: You are presented with a choice of two blu ray discs. Disc one is one of your all time favourite films, but tech reviews note that there is only a marginal increase in image/sound quality over the DVD. The second disc is a film you really like (though not as much as disc one), yet tech reviews describe it as 'reference' quality, which one do you opt for (assuming you have to make a choice between the two)?
Just to clarify, it's not my contention that people will buy a film that they think is terrible just because it has a really good picture -- I genuinely believe that the vast majority of posters on this forum are more discerning than that.
I still think that the advent of hi def subtly influences our purchses, however, and we're unlikely to buy a blu ray that hasn't received a good write-up with regard to its digital presentation, so picture and sound quality still act as markers of distinction that shape our behaviour as consumers.
One particular question springs to mind: You are presented with a choice of two blu ray discs. Disc one is one of your all time favourite films, but tech reviews note that there is only a marginal increase in image/sound quality over the DVD. The second disc is a film you really like (though not as much as disc one), yet tech reviews describe it as 'reference' quality, which one do you opt for (assuming you have to make a choice between the two)?
professorhat
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strapped for cash:though you argue that the format hasn't changed your tastes, the quality of the picture and sound still presumably informs which of your favourite films you choose to purchase on blu ray.
Informs me of which I might replace the DVD of maybe, clearly if the Blu-Ray is a poor transfer than it would be silly to replace the DVD with it. However, as I say, it hasn't altered which films I buy. I recently bought The Truman Show and Let The Right One In on Blu-Ray - neither of them are in any way a showcase for the format, but I didn't own them already and decided I wanted to purchase them. I bought them on Blu-Ray as DVD is now an out of date format - I see little point in purchasing DVDs now.
strapped for cash:Besides, several of the films referenced on this thread are hardly the most memorable cinematic experiences: 'Knowing' -- which is mentioned by many people posting as an outstanding blu ray purchase -- was hardly a landmark in film history (no offence to fans).
I kind of see what you mean, but there are an awful lot of people who seemed to like Knowing - I can't understand why personally, but there you go, and they purchased it because they liked it. I didn't because I thought it was terrible - it wouldn't matter how good that plane crash was, I was never going to buy it! Besides that, since when did a film have to be a landmark in film history for it be enjoyable? I doubt Transformers or The Day After Tomorrow will go down as landmarks in film history, but I still purchased them both (on DVD and then upgraded them both to Blu-Ray when these editions were released) because I, on occasion, enjoy watching them. Simple as that.
strapped for cash:My point is that certain consumer sections are using subtly different criteria to decide which films to buy; and for owners of hi def televisions and blu ray players, the image and sound quality have become as important -- and in some cases more so -- than the quality of the film itself.
I think that's possibly true for some people when they first get their Blu-Ray player - they want a disc to show off their new system to themselves and their friends and family. It doesn't last long though and people soon revert back to only purchasing films for their content. If they enjoy mindless blockbusters (such as Transformers and The Day After Tomorrow) then that's what they'll buy. Blu-Ray hasn't changed that at all I don't think.
Informs me of which I might replace the DVD of maybe, clearly if the Blu-Ray is a poor transfer than it would be silly to replace the DVD with it. However, as I say, it hasn't altered which films I buy. I recently bought The Truman Show and Let The Right One In on Blu-Ray - neither of them are in any way a showcase for the format, but I didn't own them already and decided I wanted to purchase them. I bought them on Blu-Ray as DVD is now an out of date format - I see little point in purchasing DVDs now.
strapped for cash:Besides, several of the films referenced on this thread are hardly the most memorable cinematic experiences: 'Knowing' -- which is mentioned by many people posting as an outstanding blu ray purchase -- was hardly a landmark in film history (no offence to fans).
I kind of see what you mean, but there are an awful lot of people who seemed to like Knowing - I can't understand why personally, but there you go, and they purchased it because they liked it. I didn't because I thought it was terrible - it wouldn't matter how good that plane crash was, I was never going to buy it! Besides that, since when did a film have to be a landmark in film history for it be enjoyable? I doubt Transformers or The Day After Tomorrow will go down as landmarks in film history, but I still purchased them both (on DVD and then upgraded them both to Blu-Ray when these editions were released) because I, on occasion, enjoy watching them. Simple as that.
strapped for cash:My point is that certain consumer sections are using subtly different criteria to decide which films to buy; and for owners of hi def televisions and blu ray players, the image and sound quality have become as important -- and in some cases more so -- than the quality of the film itself.
I think that's possibly true for some people when they first get their Blu-Ray player - they want a disc to show off their new system to themselves and their friends and family. It doesn't last long though and people soon revert back to only purchasing films for their content. If they enjoy mindless blockbusters (such as Transformers and The Day After Tomorrow) then that's what they'll buy. Blu-Ray hasn't changed that at all I don't think.
The most important thing for me when buying a blu ray is the film itself and whether or not I like it, or think I'll like it. I'll then check online reviews to see what's been said of the transfer, and if it's good, then I'll get it on that format, but only if the price is acceptable/ reasonable.
I still buy lots of dvds, many of which are tv series or foreign films which are not available on blu ray, or films that I can pick up for £3-5.
I wouldn't say that blu ray has changed my viewing habits overall, though there is a much higher concentration of action, sci fi and comic book films amongst my blu rays than there is amongst my dvds.
Whilst I do like blu rays, I have no complaints about dvds and the picture they produce, though, like everyone else, it's nice to see a pristine picture. I just don't think that for me, watching dvds detracts from the experience of watching a film. I don't think I feel more immersed in a blu ray film, than I would any other - I simply prefer the clearer image. (then again I did used to watch a lot of my dvds on a 9" portable dvd player, so watching on a 42" is certainly a step up).
I still buy lots of dvds, many of which are tv series or foreign films which are not available on blu ray, or films that I can pick up for £3-5.
I wouldn't say that blu ray has changed my viewing habits overall, though there is a much higher concentration of action, sci fi and comic book films amongst my blu rays than there is amongst my dvds.
Whilst I do like blu rays, I have no complaints about dvds and the picture they produce, though, like everyone else, it's nice to see a pristine picture. I just don't think that for me, watching dvds detracts from the experience of watching a film. I don't think I feel more immersed in a blu ray film, than I would any other - I simply prefer the clearer image. (then again I did used to watch a lot of my dvds on a 9" portable dvd player, so watching on a 42" is certainly a step up).
professorhat
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strapped for cash:One particular question springs to mind: You are presented with a choice of two blu ray discs. Disc one is one of your all time favourite films, but tech reviews note that there is only a marginal increase in image/sound quality over the DVD. The second disc is a film you really like (though not as much as disc one), yet tech reviews describe it as 'reference' quality, which one do you opt for (assuming you have to make a choice between the two)?
Ah, but now you're talking about value for money. If the first film (your all time favourite) is available on DVD for a lot less money and the Blu-Ray is only marginally better in quality, why would you buy it on Blu-Ray? You wouldn't, you'd get the DVD version. You also have to add in to that that you're aware that the studios are sneaky blighters and, in a couple of years time, they are likely to re-release your favourite movie with a brand new, much improved Blu-Ray transfer. So you'd wait for that to come out.
Ah, but now you're talking about value for money. If the first film (your all time favourite) is available on DVD for a lot less money and the Blu-Ray is only marginally better in quality, why would you buy it on Blu-Ray? You wouldn't, you'd get the DVD version. You also have to add in to that that you're aware that the studios are sneaky blighters and, in a couple of years time, they are likely to re-release your favourite movie with a brand new, much improved Blu-Ray transfer. So you'd wait for that to come out.
Thanks again Prof.
I could post what would be an essay length response explaining my argument in greater detail, but I'm fairly confident that would bore the hell out most people... 'Let the Right One In' is an excellent transfer, by the way.
You only have to look at certain more technically-focused publications, where films are reviewed/appraised with star ratings for picture and sound quality before a star rating for the film itself, to gain a reasonable grasp of my point. The change in consumer behaviour isn't revolutionary, it's subtle and gradual, but it's happening nevertheless, and it's slowly privileging a specific 'spectacle-driven' type of entertainment.
I could post what would be an essay length response explaining my argument in greater detail, but I'm fairly confident that would bore the hell out most people... 'Let the Right One In' is an excellent transfer, by the way.
You only have to look at certain more technically-focused publications, where films are reviewed/appraised with star ratings for picture and sound quality before a star rating for the film itself, to gain a reasonable grasp of my point. The change in consumer behaviour isn't revolutionary, it's subtle and gradual, but it's happening nevertheless, and it's slowly privileging a specific 'spectacle-driven' type of entertainment.
dcanham001
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to be honest there are plenty of people out there who will buy a blu-ray as a showcase for their system (as the prof says above) rather than because they like the film itself.
i dont have a huge number of films and so expect to own all of them on blu ray at some point. my criteria for choosing which ones to buy first is, more often than not, price.
personally i wont be buying star trek, terminator salvation or transformers 2 for a while because they're new and relatively expensive (compared to other, older releases that i still want to buy e.g. unforgiven, blade runner etc)
on the other hand when i've heard great things about the picture quality of an already favourite film it does add a little more excitement when i sit down to watch it for the first time on blu ray
in answer to your question i would probably go for the film with the greatest improvement over the dvd - namely because i probably already own the dvds of both films and it represents, therefore, the better value for money
i dont have a huge number of films and so expect to own all of them on blu ray at some point. my criteria for choosing which ones to buy first is, more often than not, price.
personally i wont be buying star trek, terminator salvation or transformers 2 for a while because they're new and relatively expensive (compared to other, older releases that i still want to buy e.g. unforgiven, blade runner etc)
on the other hand when i've heard great things about the picture quality of an already favourite film it does add a little more excitement when i sit down to watch it for the first time on blu ray
in answer to your question i would probably go for the film with the greatest improvement over the dvd - namely because i probably already own the dvds of both films and it represents, therefore, the better value for money
professorhat
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strapped for cash:The change in consumer behaviour isn't revolutionary, it's subtle and gradual, but it's happening nevertheless, and it's slowly privileging a specific 'spectacle-driven' type of entertainment.
But again, I'd refute that - people are demanding films on Blu-Ray that look and sound superb because this is what the format brings over DVD and this is what the extra money you pay for them provides. So if you mean people are being driven to only purchase Blu-Rays which look and sound good, I'd agree with you, but it's not because they don't care about the content of the film, it's because they want to get value for money. And this is why those sites rate the picture and sound quality.
I can't see how this is any different to how it's always been.
But again, I'd refute that - people are demanding films on Blu-Ray that look and sound superb because this is what the format brings over DVD and this is what the extra money you pay for them provides. So if you mean people are being driven to only purchase Blu-Rays which look and sound good, I'd agree with you, but it's not because they don't care about the content of the film, it's because they want to get value for money. And this is why those sites rate the picture and sound quality.
I can't see how this is any different to how it's always been.
It's disappointing when the Blu Ray offers very little picture and sound improvement over the DVD. Fine, you can have lots more extras sometimes, but I'd rather have the quality of the main feature improved by the magnitude that some films achieve it (Dr No for example.)
I have the DVD collector's edition of Purple Rain and eagerly bought the Blu Ray version too...Lots of dark scenes, cracking soundtrack, surely the Blu Ray would dig out lots more detail in picture and sound....and I founf that there is practically zero difference between the two, at least to my eyes and ears. Having said that, what do I know...I thought the colourized version of It's A Wonderful Life on the Blu Ray was actually really well made. I'll get my coat...
I have the DVD collector's edition of Purple Rain and eagerly bought the Blu Ray version too...Lots of dark scenes, cracking soundtrack, surely the Blu Ray would dig out lots more detail in picture and sound....and I founf that there is practically zero difference between the two, at least to my eyes and ears. Having said that, what do I know...I thought the colourized version of It's A Wonderful Life on the Blu Ray was actually really well made. I'll get my coat...
I'm not maintaining that the content of the film is irrelevent to the choices consumers make; it's hugely important, but picture and sound quality have become of increasing significance since the advent of digital technology. If this wasn't the case, why would people buy the same film they already owned on VHS, then DVD, on blu ray as well. The content (unless you're talking about often inferior special editions and director's cuts) of the film is the same, yet you're still being persuaded to part with your cash (again) and the basis on which you're doing this is 'specifically' and 'exclusively' down to improvements in picture and sound quality. When you say the studios are 'sneaky ', I agree with you entirely...
Incidentally, I'm not above all of this, I just traded my Godfather Trilogy DVD for the Blu Ray equivalent.
Incidentally, I'm not above all of this, I just traded my Godfather Trilogy DVD for the Blu Ray equivalent.
dcanham001
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i agree with you in many respects. there is certainly a much greater emphasis on picture/sound quality then there used to be - but then how else can you market HD tvs, blu-ray players etc?
however - would casino royale blu-ray have sold so well if it hadn't been an early blu-ray demo disc?
however - would casino royale blu-ray have sold so well if it hadn't been an early blu-ray demo disc?
Which, in a roundabout way, was my argument all along. If you accept that there is a greater emphasis on picture and sound quality than before, then the way we interpret films and the choices we make as consumers have subtly changed over time...
Thx for the posts again!
Thx for the posts again!
professorhat
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strapped for cash:I'm not maintaining that the content of the film is irrelevent to the choices consumers make; it's hugely important, but picture and sound quality have become of increasing significance since the advent of digital technology. If this wasn't the case, why would people buy the same film film they already owned on VHS, then DVD, on blu ray as well. The content (unless you're talking about often inferior special editions and director's cuts) of the film is the same, yet you're still being persuaded to part with your cash (again) and the basis on which you're doing this is 'specifically' and 'exclusively' down to improvements in picture and sound quality. When you say the studios are 'sneaky ', I agree with you entirely...
Incidentally, I'm not above all of this, I just traded my Godfather Trilogy DVD for the Blu Ray equivalent.
Ahh, I thought you were saying people were only after films that looked and sounded great, no matter whether the film was rubbish or not. The above I agree with - crikey I must have replaced over 50 of my DVDs with their Blu-Ray counterparts.
But I'm not sure why this should be surprising. Surely when you buy into the HDTV and Blu-Ray formats, you do it because you want to see a better picture and hear a better sound, rather than the other way round. If you didn't surely you'd just stick with DVD (as many people are).
Incidentally, I'm not above all of this, I just traded my Godfather Trilogy DVD for the Blu Ray equivalent.
Ahh, I thought you were saying people were only after films that looked and sounded great, no matter whether the film was rubbish or not. The above I agree with - crikey I must have replaced over 50 of my DVDs with their Blu-Ray counterparts.
But I'm not sure why this should be surprising. Surely when you buy into the HDTV and Blu-Ray formats, you do it because you want to see a better picture and hear a better sound, rather than the other way round. If you didn't surely you'd just stick with DVD (as many people are).
dcanham001
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hi strapped
possibly.obviously the way things are marketed may not affect the choices we make - that would be the difference between successful and unsuccessful marketing.
also the phrase ' the way we interpret films' is a bit wooly - having watched 2001 on blu ray i cant say it changed my interpretation of the film (that is, i still have no idea what its about!)
possibly.obviously the way things are marketed may not affect the choices we make - that would be the difference between successful and unsuccessful marketing.
also the phrase ' the way we interpret films' is a bit wooly - having watched 2001 on blu ray i cant say it changed my interpretation of the film (that is, i still have no idea what its about!)
Hi dangalf
Substitute the word 'interpret' for 'the pleasures we derive from films' and hopefully this explains what I mean more precisely: to some extent, everybody watching a blu ray is marvelling at the picture quality -- which actually potentially detracts from the process of 'immersion in a film' as stated in one of professorhat's posts. That said, I can feel a whole new debate starting around that particular point, so maybe I'm better off leaving things there. Posts from other members describing the factors that determine their blu ray purchases would be really interesting though...
Substitute the word 'interpret' for 'the pleasures we derive from films' and hopefully this explains what I mean more precisely: to some extent, everybody watching a blu ray is marvelling at the picture quality -- which actually potentially detracts from the process of 'immersion in a film' as stated in one of professorhat's posts. That said, I can feel a whole new debate starting around that particular point, so maybe I'm better off leaving things there. Posts from other members describing the factors that determine their blu ray purchases would be really interesting though...
professorhat
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strapped for cash:to some extent, everybody watching a blu ray is marvelling at the picture quality -- which actually potentially detracts from the process of 'immersion in a film' as stated in one of professorhat's posts. That said, I can feel a whole new debate starting around that particular point, so maybe I'm better off leaving things there.
dcanham001
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okay. in that case i definately derived more pleasure from the blu-ray version of planet earth than the dvd version. in that case i feel that picture quality is part of the spectacle. obviously its not a film so the level of immersion is not as applicable.
if you're sat there gaping at how good the picture is for 2 hours then you're probably not investing too much else in the film. i found that once you're used to watching HD the great picture is sometimes 'forgotten' until you switch back to SD anyway allowing you to immerse yourself in the story, characters, action etc
if you're sat there gaping at how good the picture is for 2 hours then you're probably not investing too much else in the film. i found that once you're used to watching HD the great picture is sometimes 'forgotten' until you switch back to SD anyway allowing you to immerse yourself in the story, characters, action etc
Hi Prof
You're right that "none of this is surprising", but nobody is writing about this subject in an academic context, which is what I'm trying to do at the moment. Getting the perspectives of people who use the technology is an integral part of researching such a project -- though obviously I'm not basing my argument singularly on the contributions of whf forum members (this would not be deemed the most rigorous approach)!
You're right that "none of this is surprising", but nobody is writing about this subject in an academic context, which is what I'm trying to do at the moment. Getting the perspectives of people who use the technology is an integral part of researching such a project -- though obviously I'm not basing my argument singularly on the contributions of whf forum members (this would not be deemed the most rigorous approach)!
Transformers 2. OK, so the plots as thin as budget loo roll, but the visuals will be awesome, and unless your Dad has no pulse, Megan Fox won't go un-noticed either.
Having just bought a WHF reccommended sony buray player. I needed
some discs to try it out. I understand modern films will more likely do the TV
and format justice. But im a bit tight on buying films anyway. I only really like classics i will watch again.and bargains LOL
so bought:
Leon . (excellent sharp pic and sound)
Goodfellas ( sound excellent) pic not as big a jump from waht I remember
Godfather trilogy Copolla remaster( could do side by side with my brothers DVDs)
least jump in quality. but still noticeable especially closeups.
some discs to try it out. I understand modern films will more likely do the TV
and format justice. But im a bit tight on buying films anyway. I only really like classics i will watch again.and bargains LOL
so bought:
Leon . (excellent sharp pic and sound)
Goodfellas ( sound excellent) pic not as big a jump from waht I remember
Godfather trilogy Copolla remaster( could do side by side with my brothers DVDs)
least jump in quality. but still noticeable especially closeups.
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