Back Garden Home Cinema

[rocketrazor]

Hi All,

Some of you will remember a few years ago I was looking into converting my detached garage into a dedicated home cinema room. I decided it wasn't cost effective enough and I wouldn't be happy with the outcome. Now i'm looking at having a dedicated outbuilding built at the bottom of the garden. Getting quotes for the actual building in a few weeks time and also starting looking again at equipment. This has raised a few questions:

1. I'm planning on an internal building size of 3.5 mtrs by 5 mtrs after insulation and soundproofing. Once I have the projector (AT) and equipment fitted it will be 3.5 by 4 mtrs (lose 0.5 mtrs each end approx.). I was thinking of a 3 mtr wide (136") screen but im worried sitting 4 mtrs away will be to close. I'm looking at a 1080p sony projector to start with. Not sure if 16:9 or anamorphic yet.

2. One firm I spoke to advised that they don't sell Marantz as they aren't very good? I was confused but this as they have had wonderful reviews and are spoken of very highly by those owning them.

3. Speaker set up, i was looking at BigBoss's setup of MA's when I looked last time but two firms I have spoken to so far one advises M&K and the other Artcoustic (not heard of them). There is a substantial price difference between the MA's and the other two (a quick price up was 5-6K difference) and I'm wondering giving my setup if the MA's would be ok or as it's a dedicated room I should go all out if I can and get either the M&K's or Artcoustic. I'm having a demo of the Artcoustic tomorrow and i'll have another of the M&K, unable to demo the MA's.

The speakers are probably the only thing I won't change so I need something that will last, amp, projector etc will probably change with the times but the speakers may need to withstand all of them and still be kicking around in 15-20 years.

Anyone got any useful advise on any of the questions?

Cheers

Rocket

 

[jjbomber]

2. One firm I spoke to advised that they don't sell Marantz as they aren't very good? I was confused but this as they have had wonderful reviews and are spoken of very highly by those owning them.

Nothing confusing here. The firm are a bunch of crooks and avoid them like the plague. I still have a 20 year old Marantz; they are bomb proof. Buy Marantz with confidence.

 

[bigboss]

When I was in the market for my home cinema, I got similar advice from a dealer who basically berated Monitor Audio speakers and tried to sell me MK speakers which were few times more expensive. I'm glad I stuck with my decision, as these speakers are absolutely wonderful! You're welcome to demo my speakers if you're around York.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Rather than commenting on component brands, might I offer some advice on cabling?

Use 12 AWG (3.3 mm2) speaker cable if you can. Far less power loss on long runs.

Consider running your cables in conduits or doubling up on runs - far cheaper if the "wee timerous beasties" ever chew through your wires than ripping out plasterboard. Likewise use a good HDMI 2.? cable and consider doubling up on that too.

Mineral wool makes excellent sound ( and thermal) insulation behind plasterboard and needn't be expensive either.

Speakers? Think about ON walls like the KEF T301 fronts and T101 surrounds as well as In walls and good old fashioned ones.

Marantz electronics aren't a problem, but think about how you're going to keep ALL your electronics warm and dry when not in use. A bit of damp and you'll have your own indoor firework display...

 

[ellisdj]

Check your screen size and distance if you can by viewing it. Sitting close to a large screen for the distance is massively inmersive but can be very punishing to content quality.

Decide if your going bat cave or not as that will change quite a lot of things also. Again demo bat cave you have to demo it to appreciate it.

Then on the pj for sony 1080p money you can buy epson faux 4k wcg and hdr that is supposed to be oustanding. Again you will need to see that as well but getting wcg into a pj will make a big difference speaking from experience of not having it lol

 

[bigboss]

Yes, that Epson is excellent value, but rubbish for 3D (if you like 3D like me).

 

[rocketrazor]

When I was in the market for my home cinema, I got similar advice from a dealer who basically berated Monitor Audio speakers and tried to sell me MK speakers which were few times more expensive. I'm glad I stuck with my decision, as these speakers are absolutely wonderful! You're welcome to demo my speakers if you're around York.

Cheers BigBoss. York is a fair distance for me but I might have to go to York end of March for work so if that happens and I have a spare evening I might try and get in contact with you nearer the time. I'd love to hear the MA's as the price difference to the demo kit is rather a lot!

 

[rocketrazor]

Rather than commenting on component brands, might I offer some advice on cabling?

Use 12 AWG (3.3 mm2) speaker cable if you can. Far less power loss on long runs.

Consider running your cables in conduits or doubling up on runs - far cheaper if the "wee timerous beasties" ever chew through your wires than ripping out plasterboard. Likewise use a good HDMI 2.? cable and consider doubling up on that too.

Mineral wool makes excellent sound ( and thermal) insulation behind plasterboard and needn't be expensive either.

Speakers? Think about ON walls like the KEF T301 fronts and T101 surrounds as well as In walls and good old fashioned ones.

Marantz electronics aren't a problem, but think about how you're going to keep ALL your electronics warm and dry when not in use. A bit of damp and you'll have your own indoor firework display...

A lot of useful stuff here Benedict, cheers i'll defo take it on board

 

[rocketrazor]

Check your screen size and distance if you can by viewing it. Sitting close to a large screen for the distance is massively inmersive but can be very punishing to content quality.

Decide if your going bat cave or not as that will change quite a lot of things also. Again demo bat cave you have to demo it to appreciate it.

Then on the pj for sony 1080p money you can buy epson faux 4k wcg and hdr that is supposed to be oustanding. Again you will need to see that as well but getting wcg into a pj will make a big difference speaking from experience of not having it lol

Bat cave it is most definately going to be, couldn't think of anything else in a dedicated room.

Agree with BigBoss, Epson although good has had rather poor reviews for 3D, 3D is a bigger plus for me than 4K. So ive ruled that projector out

Thanks for hte input Ellisdj, much appreciated

 

[ellisdj]

I got my first taste of uhd this weekend. Dont rule it out dude that is a mistake. There is not going to much new 3d content going forward but there is a lot of uhd content coming.

Before you rule it demo it at least.

 

[rocketrazor]

So I had my Demo Saturday, kit was the Artcoustic Spitfire (LRC) SL (Rears and Side) not sure on the Atmos ones, and a massive Spitfire Control 3 Sub. Projector was the Sony 550 4K projector all powered by Arcam Blur-Ray and Amp.

The be honest it was all absolutely mind blowing. The speakers were amazing, I couldn't believe how good that were. The projector was something out of this world. Demo'd in pitch black conditions 'The Dark Knight' and 'Transformers Age Of Extinction 3D'. Both on an Anamorphice Screen 11ft wide, sitting about 3 mtrs away.

Dark Knight was stunning, the clarity in the picture was superb, couldn't believe how clear it was. Watched the Hong Kong grab scene, sound and picture amazing. Absolutley blew away the JVC upsclaer 700 series I demo'd last year and the speakers were so much better than the M&K. This could also be the amp playing it's part but it might not?

Transformers 3D and Atmos, my god. This really showed both the speakers and the projector, so clear I hve never seen anything like it. Normally you get the 'size but it's not as clear as a TV issue' not here, it was just as clear as a TV, well worth the 9K if you can afford it.

So although the demo was with kit way out of my price league (speakers £10K, projector £9K) i came away with some good ideas for seating distances and dimensions for rooms etc to get some quotes for a purpose built building. Now I just eed to hope the building isn't going to cost to much!

It will be a few weeks before I get some quotes but I'll keep you posted so If your interested on how I get on look out for further updates

Cheers

Rocket

 

[rocketrazor]

I got my first taste of uhd this weekend. Dont rule it out dude that is a mistake. There is not going to much new 3d content going forward but there is a lot of uhd content coming.

Before you rule it demo it at least.

It's going to be a cost thing, 3D is the priority for me, absolutely love it, but with Atmos seeming to be appearing more on UHD disc's than Blu-Ray I will probably mean I go down that route sooner than expected. Idea at the mo would be probably a Sony 45 and then upgrade to a 4K one 3-4 years when they become a little cheaper. Also want to see how the HDR goes on projectors but as I said 3D is a major major benefit for me and key for any purchase.

 

[Petherick]

I can recommend Aardvark Joinery Shop in Pontefract. I haven't specifically used them for a HC room, but they are very knowledgeable and their prices are sensible.

 

[ellisdj]

I am surprised they didnt show you UHD content on the Sony VW550 - that is what it is made for.

In a recent set of reviews on AVF they rated the Epson 7300 (same price as Sony HW45) as comparable to the Sony VW550, more accurate out of the box on all modes and comparable. The Sony was better for black levels but the Epson held its own thats says a lot. I think that was on 110" from about 9 feet.

I used to love 3D but I have tried 3D once since getting my PJ - it lost all its appeal as most of the better films Avatar Pacific rim, life pi are in 1.85:1 Ratio you have to shrink the image down and have black bars either side - as they are not masked properly it reduces the overall perceived contrast and its not as enjoyable to watch as 2.40:1 content. I have a set of 3D glasses still in the wrapper.

I bought Top Gun 3D thinking it would be wicked to watch as I loved that film as a kid - still in wrapper.

However UHD content even without HDR I cant wait for some good stuff to start coming out.

If you want a demo of UHD no HDR and a Kef setup you can coem hear mate. Will be interesting to see what you think compared to the artcoustic system?

Also where did you demo MK?

 

[macdiddy]

a really badly done conversion job just to cash in on the whole 3d thing, a bit like the I-Robot bluray.

*music2*

 

[ellisdj]

LOL didnt get much cash from me bought it for £5 from ebay

I wasnt expecting miracles but thought it would good for a bit of fun - but not even tried it

Also with the Epson its brighter than the Sony - better for 3D

Has Lens memory and motorized lens shift, zoom and focus which is better for when changing between ratios - thats something BB doesnt do but you will be doing a lot if you buy a scope screen. Otherwise you will be getting a ladder out and manually moving slides on the pj to get it to change ratio, then refocus etc. That will put you off doing mate - thats something big to consider - when I was buying the JVC X500 at about £5k was the cheapest PJ to have that option so to get it at £2k is outstanding

And it has a motorized lens cover - to me thats amazing and it does 3D - who says its bad in 3D?

Thats likely down the glasses you use

The BIG problem is the colour - I think it only comes in white. Black you might need to step up to the 9300 but still it has all the above with better performance - i.e. better contrast but still for under £3k. Nothing else this end of the market with all these options currently I know of.

They are no brainer PJ's

 

[bigboss]

According to AV Forums review of 7300:

"Sadly there happens to be one downside to all this positivity and praise and that is the 3D performance. For many this won't be an issue at all as many have moved on from 3D viewing and now want 4K UHD Blu-ray content. But for those who still enjoy the odd big screen 3D adventure, projectors have always offered the ultimate screen size for this format and we hoped that the Epson would also do it justice. Unfortunately the 3D produced by the TW7300 is full of crosstalk and ghosting in almost all scenes and in the background of the image everything is out of focus and a mess. Using the 3D controls for parallax adjustment just moves the problem from the back of the screen to various points in the front of the image."

 

[bigboss]

I absolutely love 3D on my projector, always buy 3D blu ray discs where possible (for good films). For an amazing 3D experience, check Zootropolis and Kubo.

 

[ellisdj]

All that review talk is going to depend on the glasses used with the pj. Thats also coming from someone with not a huge interest in the tech at all by listening to it. There is never a mention of glasses used but I bet there would be some glasses that would work well with the epson. Its worth emailing them to ask what they suggest - and then worth trying the ones I use, cant remember the name but they are designed to be universal and are excellent glasses for 3D

Then demoing the epson pj's with the above to see what he thinks - because for the money so many bases are covered that are not in the current sony range at that price - or even at the highest price range. If they perform well which I am sure they will they are the go to buys for the sub £3k market

 

[bigboss]

Having experienced 3 different brands of 3D glasses myself, I don't think glasses will make that amount of difference as described in the review.

Even Trusted reviews said this: "If you’re still a fan of 3D, the TW7300 is a passable, but far from great, 3D performer. Its 3D images are bright and detailed, and enjoy a strong sense of depth and space thanks to the projector’s strong contrast. But all too often, details and objects in the mid and far distance are left looking soft and indistinct by more crosstalk ghosting noise than I would've expected."

http://trustedreviews.com/epson-eh-tw7300-review-picture-quality-and-verdict-page-2#roRJTZKIGfS866pT.99

 

[ellisdj]

Epson 9300 best 3d ever seen because it is so bright

http://projectiondream.com/en/epson-eh-tw9300-eh-tw7300-eh-ls10000-battle/

 

[bigboss]

All boils down to budget. If 3D is a priority, then Epson 7300 isn't a good choice.

(Another review of the 7300: 3D is another let down though, although many people probably won’t use the setting as the main sell is the 4K, there is a lot of ghosting when using the 3D functionality. The picture seems out of focus and everything becomes quite a headache when using it for too long.
https://videogamesuncovered.com/hardware/epson-eh-tw7300-4k-projector-review/ )

Excellent 3D and 1080p under £2000 - Sony HW45ES. If you want 4K ability (although faux) with good 3D performance, then look at spending £3000 on the 9300.

 

[ellisdj]

When you are buying a full system you are at your strongest point to get a good deal. So you spec everything you want and say heres my budget and try and work it out. I bet its possible at the time would need the epson 9300 model anyway because a white pj in a black room wouldnt work The epson 9300 is current and future proof it does all the new spec inc pretty much 100% dci p3 colour space. The sony just about does rec 709. And it does hdr and faux 4k so it will be a sharper picture on a big screen. So you can watch everything on it going forward inc uhd content for the next x number of years. You wont need to buy another pj in a few years time like you would with the sony after you saw someone elses uhd content and realised what your missing. So in the long run your saving money. The epson will hold its money better because its up to spec It has motorised lens after you have been up a ladder half a dozen times to change the ratio from 1.85 to 2.40 you will hate doing it and wish you could just press a button and it do it automatically. The epson is worth the extra for that alone. Its full current performance for low money you then only need a new pj when 4k laser is everyday price and how many years away is that 8 Plus you get better warranty and better bulb life. Oh yeah best 3d ever seen Its a no brainer for anyone shopping at this end of the market. EDIT - still still need to have a look at it going first obviously.

 

[rocketrazor]

When I was in the market for my home cinema, I got similar advice from a dealer who basically berated Monitor Audio speakers and tried to sell me MK speakers which were few times more expensive. I'm glad I stuck with my decision, as these speakers are absolutely wonderful! You're welcome to demo my speakers if you're around York.

Cheers BigBoss. York is a fair distance for me but I might have to go to York end of March for work so if that happens and I have a spare evening I might try and get in contact with you nearer the time. I'd love to hear the MA's as the price difference to the demo kit is rather a lot!

I just found out my York work is cancelled so I wont be in the area now. Thanks for the offer though Bigboss

 

[rocketrazor]

I can recommend Aardvark Joinery Shop in Pontefract. I haven't specifically used them for a HC room, but they are very knowledgeable and their prices are sensible.

Cheers for the recommendation, there a little way from me though as I'm down in sunny Southend