B&W

[tcooper]

I am not very good at this so thought to ask your expert advice.

I want to get 803 d or 804 d for my fronts and pm1 for my rears. I understand they are different ranges. Will this effect sound quality and will they work good together ? Or would I be better of getting 805 for the rears

Thank you in advance fot all your help

 

[CnoEvil]

Can you give a little more info like - what is your other equipment and the size of your room?

If you don't mind me asking, what other speakers did you demo?

 

[tcooper]

I have Bose home cinema at the moment and decided to upgrade to the system what can handle cinema and stereo well. I bought Arcam 600 but might consider upgrade to Arcam processor + amplifier. My room is 5 m x 8 m.

Hope it make sense

Unpublished - duplicate post

 

[tcooper]

I have Bose home cinema at the moment and decided to upgrade to the system what can handle cinema and stereo well. I bought Arcam 600 but might consider upgrade to Arcam processor + amplifier. My room is 5 m x 8 m.

Hope it make sense

 

[Anonymous]

hi there. personaly i would go for smaller fronts and then go for the the 805 rears ensuring ur have diamond all the way round.

 

[bigboss]

What's your budget?

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I have Bose home cinema at the moment and decided to upgrade to the system what can handle cinema and stereo well. I bought Arcam 600 but might consider upgrade to Arcam processor + amplifier. My room is 5 m x 8 m.

Hope it make sense

Hi tcooper

PM1's will work with 800 Series however if you can accomodate them then go for 805D's as this will ensure an ideal tonal match which will only help create a more cohesive front to back soundfield. For main front speakers 803D's

What about a centre speaker and sub?

What source component/s and display/s will you also be using?

Btw, i would say that the 800 Series speakers will benefit from even greater quality of amplification. Would you also be willing to consider alternatives to the AV888/P777?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[tcooper]

10 - 15 k

 

[CnoEvil]

I have Bose home cinema at the moment and decided to upgrade to the system what can handle cinema and stereo well. I bought Arcam 600 but might consider upgrade to Arcam processor + amplifier. My room is 5 m x 8 m.

Hope it make sense

Thank you for that.

I also have the AVR600 which is seriously good, and you may find you won't feel the need to upgrade.....though the pre/pro + power amp is superb.

The B&Ws are very nice speakers, but imo you shouldn't part with so much money until you've heard what PMC has to offer (great match with Arcam) and the Kef Reference range (another great match - I should know).....that is, if you haven't already done do.

The size of the front L&R may depend on how much 2 channel you listen to. If it's very important, then go for the bigger ones. If AV is important, the Centre speaker is vital.

For AV, the Sub is vital, so something very substantial is advisable, which is costly. IMO you are better using the standmounts on the rear, if it means you don't compromise on the Sub. If finance is not a problem and AV is the big priority, then I agree with Moozer.

For a Sub maybe look to Velodyne DD12 / DD15 or the cheaper SPL 1200 Ultra

You will be spending a serious amount of money, so you need to get this right, and check out your options (with demos).

 

[tcooper]

Thank you It is very helpful. I would like to get speakers first and then I will consider upgrade my amplifier. To be completely honest I have not thought that far. This is my first system I am building.

 

[bigboss]

For AV, the Sub is vital, so something very substantial is advisable, which is costly. IMO you are better using the standmounts on the rear, if it means you don't compromise on the Sub. If finance is not a problem and AV is the big priority, then I agree with Moozer.

Agreed. I see no point in spending a lot on rear speakers. A good subwoofer is extremely important for a brilliant AV system. So don't compromise on that. As my dealer suggested: buy the biggest sub you can afford & accommodate.

 

[tcooper]

Thank you guys. Your help is much appreciated. It is all more complicated then I thought. I think 804 to front 805 to rear Htm2 as the centre and powerful sub. Next stage will be getting better amplifier. ......

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Thank you guys. Your help is much appreciated. It is all more complicated then I thought. I think 804 to front 805 to rear Htm2 as the centre and powerful sub. Next stage will be getting better amplifier. ......

Hi tcooper

Your welcome.

DB1 sub will compliment 804D's, HTM2 and 805D's nicely.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[CnoEvil]

Thank you guys. Your help is much appreciated. It is all more complicated then I thought. I think 804 to front 805 to rear Htm2 as the centre and powerful sub. Next stage will be getting better amplifier. ......

A summary of my thoughts.

- The percentage of two channel you listen to, has a bearing on what size front speakers to get.

- For AV, at least 65-70% of the speech/effects come through the centre speaker....if 2 channel isn't important (and funds are stretched), get the bigger Centre with the smaller fronts, as this has the greatest effect.

- As already said, a very good sub is vital.

- It is nice, but imo. not vital to have floorstanders at the rear.

- The AVR600 gets a long way towards the quality of the pre/pro + power. It drives my Kef References amazingly well, so I think you should sort everything else first.

- Use reasonably good speaker cable to wire the front three, with cheaper OFC copper for the rears.

- Use the 2 spare channels to bi-amp the front L&R (especially if stereo is important)

- Allow funds for all cabling, stands and installation.

- Given that you are coming from a Bose system, any speaker system of this quality, is going to sound brilliant. It's vital that you make sure what the competition has to offer...which is why I asked what you have heard.

- Make sure you use a knowledgeable dealer who you can trust.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Thank you guys. Your help is much appreciated. It is all more complicated then I thought. I think 804 to front 805 to rear Htm2 as the centre and powerful sub. Next stage will be getting better amplifier. ......

A summary of my thoughts.

- The percentage of two channel you listen to, has a bearing on what size front speakers to get.

- For AV, at least 65-70% of the speech/effects come through the centre speaker....if 2 channel isn't important (and funds are stretched), get the bigger Centre with the smaller fronts, as this has the greatest effect.

- As already said, a very good sub is vital.

- It is nice, but imo. not vital to have floorstanders at the rear.

- The AVR600 gets a long way towards the quality of the pre/pro + power. It drives my Kef References amazingly well, so I think you should sort everything else first.

- Use reasonably good speaker cable to wire the front three, with cheaper OFC copper for the rears.

- Use the 2 spare channels to bi-amp the front L&R (especially if stereo is important)

- Allow funds for all cabling, stands and installation.

- Given that you are coming from a Bose system, any speaker system of this quality, is going to sound brilliant. It's vital that you make sure what the competition has to offer...which is why I asked what you have heard.

- Make sure you use a knowledgeable dealer who you can trust.

Hi CnE

The op has only considered bookshelf (PM1's or 805D's) for rears.

Btw, i'll recommend using standard OFC speaker cables for all three front speakers as well.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi CnE

The op has only considered bookshelf (PM1's or 805D's) for rears.

Btw, i'll recommend using standard OFC speaker cables for all three front speakers as well.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

It's getting late, and I forgot that as the model numbers get smaller, the speakers get bigger.

 

[CnoEvil]

DB1 sub will compliment 804D's, HTM2 and 805D's nicely.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

I think the DB1 looks like a terrific Sub, though I haven't heard it....2x12" woofers and (by all accounts) an ability to produce tight, accurate, punchy bass, that plays tunes. There may be Subs that dig deeper, but I suspect few that would be as agile.

 

[poldo]

Why do you want B&W, do you like the sound or just because you know the brand name? Where are you from? UK or outside UK?

Ik would advice to try some speaker brands on your AVR 600.

PMC, Kef, Audiovector, Monitor Audio, Audio Physic etc. all have very nice 5.1 solutions.

As an Audiovector owner I would suggest to demo the Audiovector si3 Signature or Avantgarde (Arrete) range.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi CnE

The op has only considered bookshelf (PM1's or 805D's) for rears.

Btw, i'll recommend using standard OFC speaker cables for all three front speakers as well.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

It's getting late, and I forgot that as the model numbers get smaller, the speakers get bigger.

Hi CnE

or as the model numbers get bigger, the prices get smaller

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[tcooper]

Thank you very much indeed. You all are more then helpfully not like dealers who desperately trying to sell what they got in stock

I live in London. The reason I picked b&w is because the brand is well known and they look very nice. When it comes to sound quality all resanobely big speakers sound similar to me .......

 

[gregvet]

The reason I picked b&w is because the brand is well known and they look very nice. When it comes to sound quality all resanobely big speakers sound similar to me .......

If this is a genuine comment (sometimes on here people say things just to get a reaction lol), you would be well advised to look at other speaker options. The 800 series are notoriously difficult to drive properly, and in my opinion more suited to stereo than AV duties.

Your Arcam AV600 is an excellent amp when paired with slightly more forgiving speakers. I would suggest the KEF R series, R700 or R900 for the fronts, R600 for the centre, and either R300 or R100 for the rear channels. This would give you potentially a better all round system for a fraction of the price, unless you are really happy to go the whole hog with power amps etc for the B&Ws. An alternative would be the PMC twenty series, also excellent for AV and music in my opinion.

Obviously it's your money, but if you can't really hear the difference between speakers, why spend so much on speakers that then demand more money spent on the rest of the system. Better to go for slightly cheaper speakers that may in the end be better suited for what you are trying to achieve. Unless you had a really big bonus that needs spending obviously. Even then I would go for kef reference if it was my money

 

[CnoEvil]

The reason I picked b&w is because the brand is well known and they look very nice. When it comes to sound quality all resanobely big speakers sound similar to me .......

If this is a genuine comment (sometimes on here people say things just to get a reaction lol), you would be well advised to look at other speaker options. The 800 series are notoriously difficult to drive properly, and in my opinion more suited to stereo than AV duties.

Your Arcam AV600 is an excellent amp when paired with slightly more forgiving speakers. I would suggest the KEF R series, R700 or R900 for the fronts, R600 for the centre, and either R300 or R100 for the rear channels. This would give you potentially a better all round system for a fraction of the price, unless you are really happy to go the whole hog with power amps etc for the B&Ws. An alternative would be the PMC twenty series, also excellent for AV and music in my opinion.

Obviously it's your money, but if you can't really hear the difference between speakers, why spend so much on speakers that then demand more money spent on the rest of the system. Better to go for slightly cheaper speakers that may in the end be better suited for what you are trying to achieve. Unless you had a really big bonus that needs spending obviously. Even then I would go for kef reference if it was my money

I never usually take a strong stance, and have a "live and let live" view on here....but I strongly support what Gregvet (and Poldo) said, and it is absolutely essential that you listen to a few options.

People new to this, often think that they won't be able (have the knowledge) to tell the difference. The temptation is to throw money at the "one well known brand" that you've heard of, as the alternative is quite intimidating ie launching into a journey where you don't feel you have the confidence as to where to start.

Speaker brands can sound completely different, with some being more suited to two channel, and others to AV.....have you heard any other highend brands?

Whether you listen to a lot of two channel is a strong guide as to how you go about it . If you are genuine (I'm assuming you are), the more you can tell us about your situation, the easier it is to help. ie What percentage of music you listen to; what type of music you like; and do you like a brighter forward sound or a slightly smoother one.

 

[tcooper]

Thank again for all the info and advice.

I feel like I have to be completely honest now and tell you all full story. Friend of mine bought himself big subwoofer two floor standing speakers stereo amplifier and vinyl record player. I got blown away of the quality and when got home and listened to my Bose felt like never want to turn it on ever again. Then I went to same dealer where my friend bought his stuff but he wanted to sell me 10 year old equipment as he knew I do not know anything about HiFi. I walked away from the shop and started my education on internet. I fell in love with B&W looks and have read that they are very good speakers.

Cut this story short I am looking for sharp powerful sound system what can handle AV and stereo well .

 

[CnoEvil]

The picture is starting to get clearer, so thank you for that.

The first time you hear a really good system (no matter the brand), it makes a very strong lasting impression, as it's so much better than anything you've experienced. Since you have nothing to compare it to, it's impossible to know if it's the best suited to your taste.

There are some very knowledgeable people on here, who are only too happy to help. The idea is not to tell you what to buy, but supply you with sensible ideas and suggestions. It is worth remembering, that what initially sounds exciting can lead to listening fatigue over a longer period.

IMO You have made a great start with the AVR600, which is probably the best choice if a mixture of AV and music is your goal. It is also more powerful than its rating suggests and can drive more difficult speakers.

Here are the speakers that I suggest you should try, which are in the same league as the B&Ws:

Kef Reference - 205/2 (or 203/2) + 204/2c (or 202/2c) + 201/2 + 208 (Nb. These have similarish look to B&W)

Monitor Audio - PL300 (or PL200) + PLC 350 (or 150) + PL100 + PLW 15

PMC - PB1i (or Fact.8 or FB1i) + CB6i (or Twenty C) + TB2i (or Twenty 21 or 22) + TLE 1 (Nb. I think I'm right in saying, that if you like the Fact.8s, you need to chose the Twenty Series, as they are a better tonal match.

Kef R Series - R900 + R600C + R300 + A good sub (As has already been suggested, it is worth hearing what the next step down offers, as if it meets expectation, it will save a fortune).

The places not to skimp are: The Centre and Sub or AV; Front Left and Right for 2 channel. The Arcam has a "Stereo Direct" mode which I've found is the best option in a revealing system for stereo. This means you can't use the Sub for 2 channel...which is why you need to get the best front speakers you can afford.

In this instance I agree with Rick, although I think better cabling makes a difference, it should never be at the expense of getting the right hardware. It should also be noted that bi-amping the L&R is almost essential when driving speakers of this quality.....and is not expensive with cheap OFC cable.

It is not essential to get a Sub from the same brand as you get everything else....though it ties in looks-wise.

The Kefs have an advantage due to the design ie. having the Tweeter inside the mid-range unit (Uni-Q), which gives them a wider sweetspot. The Reference range also has boundary compensation, which makes them easier to place.

When putting this together, also allow reasonable funding for the 2 channel source....with something like a Linn Sneaky DS being a minimum (Magik DS would be perfect)

This is all a lot to take in, but with £15k on the table, take your time, don't be pushed into a rushed decision (by pressure selling).....and come on here and ask about anything you're not sure of.... no matter how silly you think it might be.

Regards

Cno

 

[poldo]

All the options will give you a hell of system.

With Arcam, I think the PMC twenty serie would be awesome, but that's an opinion. Try some Ocos speaker cable with it, great match for PMC.

Lots of PMC / Arcam dealers in UK so it wouldn't be hard to demo this system.