AVI ADM9s: breakthrough or too much hype?

[plastic penguin]

"Before pestering dealers" kind of implies you intend to...Otherwise, you got me (apart from the nonsense about how i have been toward you for the last (nearly) 13 months, you legend).

As JD says, this is going "belly-up". Your allegiance towards actives goes beyond what is deemed as reasonable, so on that basis I won't respond to anymore of these crass and pointless posts.

Actives, like passives, is just another tool for hearing music, not the Holy Grail. Deal with it!

Nightie-night...

 

[chebby]

The 'revolutionary' bit was sticking a DAC & remote controlled pre-amp in the box along with all the usual/conventional stuff (electronic x-overs and amps) common to all active speakers since way-back-when.

Yes, this was revolutionary (when Meridian did it in the D600 speakers, sometime around the end of the 1980s).

Thanks.

I thought someone had done it before. (Hence my use of quotes.) Just didn't know who. Might have been B&O as well.

 

[plastic penguin]

The 'revolutionary' bit was sticking a DAC & remote controlled pre-amp in the box along with all the usual/conventional stuff (electronic x-overs and amps) common to all active speakers since way-back-when.

Yes, this was revolutionary (when Meridian did it in the D600 speakers, sometime around the end of the 1980s).

Thanks.

I thought someone had done it before. (Hence my use of quotes.) Just didn't know who. Might have been B&O as well.

I seem to remember WHFI reviewd some Meridian actives with a DVD or CDP source in their 'One make brands' about 5-6 years ago. It was the most expensive set-up in the test and only received 3 stars... I think a Quad set-up won the test (909 amp, matching CDP and 12L2 speakers).

 

[Alec]

"Before pestering dealers" kind of implies you intend to...Otherwise, you got me (apart from the nonsense about how i have been toward you for the last (nearly) 13 months, you legend).

As JD says, this is going "belly-up". Your allegiance towards actives goes beyond what is deemed as reasonable, so on that basis I won't respond to anymore of these crass and pointless posts.

Actives, like passives, is just another tool for hearing music, not the Holy Grail. Deal with it!

Nightie-night...

At no point in this thread have I shown an unreasonable alleginance to anything or anyone. Indeed I've been known to speak rather badly of AVI. At no point in this thread have I even spoken in favour of actives. I have merely pointed out, more pointedly than some others who have said the same thing, that you are playing a silly game because you believe yourself to be rather clever. The truth is sadly rather different.

Crass? Well, your entry to this thread was pointless, as was every one of your subsequent posts in it.

Deemed reasonable by who? You are deluded, sir.

 

[Alec]

The 'revolutionary' bit was sticking a DAC & remote controlled pre-amp in the box along with all the usual/conventional stuff (electronic x-overs and amps) common to all active speakers since way-back-when.

Yes, this was revolutionary (when Meridian did it in the D600 speakers, sometime around the end of the 1980s).

Thanks.

I thought someone had done it before. (Hence my use of quotes.) Just didn't know who. Might have been B&O as well.

I seem to remember WHFI reviewd some Meridian actives...

Funny, that. But I guess after 30 years 5 or 6 is nothing in the scheme of things.

 

[John Duncan]

Before The_Lhc arrives, it's 'whom'...

 

[Alec]

Before The_Lhc arrives, it's 'whom'...

Blast. I did stop to wonder, too...

 

[The_Lhc]

Before The_Lhc arrives, it's 'whom'...

Blast. I did stop to wonder, too...

Well don't look at me, I've never understood the difference...

 

[atticus]

I sold my Cyrus/Tannoy set up when I realised that the next upgrade was going to cost me £2000.00. I don't have unlimited funds and the mem-sahib was getting fed up of coiled cables in the front room and lots of empty boxes being stored in the airing cupboard. The ADM 9's were as good as this setup, if not better in many ways. I elected to hold out for the ADM40's, since the sale value of my Separates setup was more than double the price of the 40's. I had enough left over for an Apple TV, an iPad and a holiday.

I also got rid of the CDs in the living room (ripped to a WD 2TB external drive), along with all the nagging doubts that come with owning separates every time a new box is released. I confess that there is talk of a new tweeter that I might try out on the 40's to see if it makes an improvement, but I'm not losing sleep over it. I think the simple fact is that the cost of the components in the ADM's is substantially higher than other kit at similar price points, so you get better sound quality. That and the fact that, being an active, the amps are designed specifically to drive the, er, driver. You're also buying direct from the manufacturer, saving on all the markups associated with high street retailers.

I have never been this satisfied with a system as I am now; and I have never listened to so much music as I do now. Moreover, and completely unexpectedly; I have never stepped so far outside my musical box as I now find myself. I listen to a much more diverse selection of tunes than ever before and have found a new passion for music, as well as the simple enjoyment and pleasure that I thought I had lost.

And for me, that is the most important thing of all.

 

[moon]

The 'revolutionary' bit was sticking a DAC & remote controlled pre-amp in the box along with all the usual/conventional stuff (electronic x-overs and amps) common to all active speakers since way-back-when.

Yes, this was revolutionary (when Meridian did it in the D600 speakers, sometime around the end of the 1980s).

 

[char_lotte]

I deleted my post . Felt it was antagonistic. Sorry.

 

[Alec]

I deleted my post . Felt it was antagonistic. Sorry.

Ooh, what did you say?

 

[atticus]

Ahh ....the old never need to upgrade line. I've never felt the need to upgrade either. How many have upgraded their ADM's to the latest spec or indeed the new floorstanders ? Wonder what will happen when a new update for the '40's ? This isnt directed at you Atticus by the way, just got me thinking that's all.

For me it is less about constant upgrading and more about getting rid of the feeling of dissatisfaction that the sound reproduction is not quite good enough, not quite there.

If I won the Lottery I might well dive head first back into high end separates, like some kind of modern day (but slightly less intrepid) explorer. But then money wouldn't be an issue.

And if AVi brought out a new pair of speakers that were better than the ADM 40's I think I'd probably have to go and listen to them. But then the owner of Cyrus never took me out to lunch, or invited me to his home to drink coffee and listen to his speakers. Or discouraged me from going for the new models because the older ones 'would be fine' and he was concerned I would be spending too much money with his company.

 

[char_lotte]

I deleted my post . Felt it was antagonistic. Sorry.

Ooh, what did you say?

Nothing to see here....move along please......

 

[char_lotte]

Ahh ....the old never need to upgrade line. I've never felt the need to upgrade either. How many have upgraded their ADM's to the latest spec or indeed the new floorstanders ? Wonder what will happen when a new update for the '40's ? This isnt directed at you Atticus by the way, just got me thinking that's all.

For me it is less about constant upgrading and more about getting rid of the feeling of dissatisfaction that the sound reproduction is not quite good enough, not quite there.

If I won the Lottery I might well dive head first back into high end separates, like some kind of modern day (but slightly less intrepid) explorer. But then money wouldn't be an issue.

And if AVi brought out a new pair of speakers that were better than the ADM 40's I think I'd probably have to go and listen to them. But then the owner of Cyrus never took me out to lunch, or invited me to his home to drink coffee and listen to his speakers. Or discouraged me from going for the new models because the older ones 'would be fine' and he was concerned I would be spending too much money with his company.

Understood. I deleted my post as soon as I read it back.

 

[Alec]

AHA!

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

and the fact that, being an active, the amps are designed specifically to drive the, er, driver.

this is always an argument brought up by those whose names cannot be said out loud. I was always wondering why would an amp designed to amplify anything from DC to radio frequency and be able to drive any load from 1 Ohm to, say, 20 Ohm was by default made redundant because it was not designed to drive this one chosen driver :rofl:

hilarious!

 

[bigblue235]

Something I don't understand about Actives, or at least the ones that are commonly discussed here, is the suggestion that when someone demos them and finds them a bit dull, emotionless or uninspiring, that this is due to the "lack of distortion", or because it's the first time the person has heard an "accurate" or "uncoloured" speaker, or something else along those lines.

When I listen to live music, I don't find it dull/emotionless or any of those things. So where does this belief come from that if you're used to Passive speakers, you'll find an accurate representation of the music in some way lifeless? Can't it just be that some Actives (and Passives) are just a bit, well, dull? I listened to some older Naim Actives, and they sounded much like I'd expect from any decent speaker. I couldn't have identified them as being 'different'. I wasn't overly impressed with them, but maybe I was expecting too much.

I understand that the objective with any pro monitor is accuracy, but surely some are better at it than others? They can't all be good 🙂

 

[Phileas]

In my case, when I first got my ADM9Ts, they sounded a bit dull. However, the speakers they replaced were definitely "tizzy" when I first got them but over time I suppose I became accustomed to them. In comparison, the ADMs were dull but after a day or so they seemed just fine and not dull at all.

My dad listened to my old speakers and also found them "tizzy", which sort of confirms that we tend to become accustomed to the sound of our own kit in our own listening rooms. On the other hand he instantly approved of the ADMs.

So this might partly explain some of these initial reactions. (I'm assuming the tizziness may have been partly caused by the passive crossover distortion).

 

[fr0g]

and the fact that, being an active, the amps are designed specifically to drive the, er, driver.

this is always an argument brought up by those whose names cannot be said out loud. I was always wondering why would an amp designed to amplify anything from DC to radio frequency and be able to drive any load from 1 Ohm to, say, 20 Ohm was by default made redundant because it was not designed to drive this one chosen driver :rofl:

hilarious!

Nobody is claiming that it's redundant. But as you nicely describe, it's certainly over-engineered.

Now take the active. Instead of one over-engineered amp, designed to be all things to all speaker drivers, and costing a packet if it acheives that, let's take 4 separate power amps, designed, or specced to deliver enough to fullfill the needs of the drivers actually used. Also as they need not power 4 (or more of course) drivers and get some of that power sapped by passive drivers, they can be less powerful and still deliver exactly what's needed in all circumstances.

A good amp driving easy to drive speakers is like nipping to the post-office in a double decker bus.

 

[Craig M.]

and the fact that, being an active, the amps are designed specifically to drive the, er, driver.

this is always an argument brought up by those whose names cannot be said out loud. I was always wondering why would an amp designed to amplify anything from DC to radio frequency and be able to drive any load from 1 Ohm to, say, 20 Ohm was by default made redundant because it was not designed to drive this one chosen driver :rofl:

hilarious!

Nobody is claiming that it's redundant. But as you nicely describe, it's certainly over-engineered.

Now take the active. Instead of one over-engineered amp, designed to be all things to all speaker drivers, and costing a packet if it acheives that, let's take 4 separate power amps, designed, or specced to deliver enough to fullfill the needs of the drivers actually used. Also as they need not power 4 (or more of course) drivers and get some of that power sapped by passive drivers, they can be less powerful and still deliver exactly what's needed in all circumstances.

A good amp driving easy to drive speakers is like nipping to the post-office in a double decker bus.

Exactly, the power amp in an active system can be made for peanuts and still provide better system performance than a high cost mega-amp, because of the benefits of active operation. This means the active system can be made much cheaper without a drop in performance. This is explained in this link. Have you read it yet , penguin? :wall:

 

[plastic penguin]

and the fact that, being an active, the amps are designed specifically to drive the, er, driver.

this is always an argument brought up by those whose names cannot be said out loud. I was always wondering why would an amp designed to amplify anything from DC to radio frequency and be able to drive any load from 1 Ohm to, say, 20 Ohm was by default made redundant because it was not designed to drive this one chosen driver :rofl:

hilarious!

Nobody is claiming that it's redundant. But as you nicely describe, it's certainly over-engineered.

Now take the active. Instead of one over-engineered amp, designed to be all things to all speaker drivers, and costing a packet if it acheives that, let's take 4 separate power amps, designed, or specced to deliver enough to fullfill the needs of the drivers actually used. Also as they need not power 4 (or more of course) drivers and get some of that power sapped by passive drivers, they can be less powerful and still deliver exactly what's needed in all circumstances.

A good amp driving easy to drive speakers is like nipping to the post-office in a double decker bus.

Have you read it yet , penguin? :wall:

Not yet. Got more pressing things at mo - work. I'll have a look later.

 

[richardw42]

I have to admit, when I first investigated AVI speakers, it was from more of a lifestyle POV. getting rid of all the boxes cables & stand (my Sonos just sit on top of the master). I was starting to despair, it was a case of buy this, sell that, tweaking and swapping and never being entirely happy.

My previous system was roughly of the same value as the ADM40s, but when I heard the 9 & 40 it made me laugh at how poor everything had sounded before (to my ears). It was exactly the sound I'd been hoping to achieve.

I don't doubt for one second that a well matched, well considered conventional system could be somewhere close, but I didn't think I could achieve it and by the amount of box swapping that goes on I'm not the only one.

Fair play to anyone who's content (no matter the budget), its just from a personal POV the AVIs are a good solution.

Revolutionary they are not, and I don't think that was ever the claim.

 

[Bialykot]

For me, the big attraction of actives, especially the ADMs, is the sheer simplicity AND tremendous sound quality. Like one or two others here, I'm now free from tweaking, swapping and upgrading components and my living room no longer looks like a hifi shop. It's probably worth noting that many active speakers are not the prettiest for a domestic setting, but the ADMs look respectable and are not hugely critical of placement so long as one is sensible. Revolutionary? Not quite, but AVI spotted a gap in the market and have plugged it.

I now spend much more time listening to music and feel a little bit 'liberated' from what was previously an addiction that consumed me and drove my wife nuts (although I did enjoy that part as well! 🙂 )

 

[lindsayt]

They are also a bit dynamically compressed, which doesn't help.

Sorry, but this is just plain wrong.

This is what I was talking about. Someone has a different view, the speakers sounded OK (myself included) and gets told they are wrong as it does not level with their opinion.

This is not a matter of opinion, it's empirically verifiable.

OK, so let's get a pair of ADM9's together with a pair of high efficiency monster speakers. Let's feed them a signal that has large transient peaks followed by much smaller signals. Let's get a sound pressure metre and let's volume match them and then see if one pair of speakers has less contrast between the loud bits and the quiet bits. Let's also see if these measurements are backed up by what we hear when conducting this test.