hello Everyone, I am building a new apartment and want to upgrade my system at the same time. So I am seeking advice on a Hi-fi music and movie system. First component is the AVR or Pre/Processor. Speakers have been mostly decicded upon. I will likely have B&W 802D for Front L/R and then some B&W CI 700 series for the rear surround (in ceiling) and Front speaker (in wall). so onto the AVR / processor questions 1. What is the difference between a pre/processor and AVR? 2. Is a 3D processor or AVR needed to play 3D DVDs and process the signal to pass through to the TV? 3. Upscaling. My current AVR (3 year old mid-range yamaha has an upscaler but I barely notice any real quality improvements when viewing standard TV). Is upscaling really just marketing or does it turn standard TV and downloaded movies into much better resolution with the right equipment? 4. The apartment is open plan (lving room, dining room and kitchen are all one room). It will be about 60m2. So would Audessy eq really help that in adjusting for room dynamics? 5. Which Pre/pro or AVR would you recommend for a good system (up to about $1500). I am not sure I would really notice the benefits of those horribly expensive pieces
AV Receiver vs Processor
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hello Everyone,
I am building a new apartment and want to upgrade my system at the same time. So I am seeking advice on a Hi-fi music and movie system. First component is the AVR or Pre/Processor. Speakers have been mostly decicded upon. I will likely have B&W 802D for Front L/R and then some B&W CI 700 series for the rear surround (in ceiling) and Front speaker (in wall).
so onto the AVR / processor questions
1. What is the difference between a pre/processor and AVR?
2. Is a 3D processor or AVR needed to play 3D DVDs and process the signal to pass through to the TV?
3. Upscaling. My current AVR (3 year old mid-range yamaha has an upscaler but I barely notice any real quality improvements when viewing standard TV). Is upscaling really just marketing or does it turn standard TV and downloaded movies into much better resolution with the right equipment?
4. The apartment is open plan (lving room, dining room and kitchen are all one room). It will be about 60m2. So would Audessy eq really help that in adjusting for room dynamics?
5. Which Pre/pro or AVR would you recommend for a good system (up to about $1500). I am not sure I would really notice the benefits of those horribly expensive pieces
Sorry it seems my IE8 browser is having trouble with using Rich Text. Grrrr hate IE.
I am building a new apartment and want to upgrade my system at the same time. So I am seeking advice on a Hi-fi music and movie system. First component is the AVR or Pre/Processor. Speakers have been mostly decicded upon. I will likely have B&W 802D for Front L/R and then some B&W CI 700 series for the rear surround (in ceiling) and Front speaker (in wall).
so onto the AVR / processor questions
1. What is the difference between a pre/processor and AVR?
2. Is a 3D processor or AVR needed to play 3D DVDs and process the signal to pass through to the TV?
3. Upscaling. My current AVR (3 year old mid-range yamaha has an upscaler but I barely notice any real quality improvements when viewing standard TV). Is upscaling really just marketing or does it turn standard TV and downloaded movies into much better resolution with the right equipment?
4. The apartment is open plan (lving room, dining room and kitchen are all one room). It will be about 60m2. So would Audessy eq really help that in adjusting for room dynamics?
5. Which Pre/pro or AVR would you recommend for a good system (up to about $1500). I am not sure I would really notice the benefits of those horribly expensive pieces
Sorry it seems my IE8 browser is having trouble with using Rich Text. Grrrr hate IE.
The_Lhc
Well-known member
I believe I'd be right in saying that a processor doesn't have any amplification in it, so you'd need to buy 5 or 7 channels of amplifier to go along with the processor, which could be tricky given your budget. A receiver has the amps on-board.
Paul.
Well-known member
A separate amp is great if you can afford it though, as amp technology moves much slower than processor technology. An AV amp is considered old hat after three years due to the video and sound standards implemented, but there is nothing wrong with the amplifiers within. You can replace the processor without throwing the amp in the bin, and have the benefit of separating all the electronic noise of the processors from the amplifier.
Down side is cost.
Down side is cost.
Some 20 years ago I added processor to my Hi-Fi amp.
Now I don't think you can find dedicated processor only. Probably cost is not that far from just making full AVR.
What I find lacking on the current market though is the lack of Pre-outs on the budget models.
I would much appreciate having cheap AVR and using it as processor for home cinema and my main amp for music.
Right now only Marantz "budget" NR1402 (no network capability) and NR1602 offer front pre-outs. Actually OnkyoTX-NA609 is cheaper and has eventually better functionality but bigger footprint.
On your questions that I can give opinion:
1. Processor takes care of the cinema sound formats and as said can be dedicated or integrated in AVR. If separate usually had also amplification for center and rear channels (in the past)
2. 3D ready AVR would pass the signal to your TV but you can also connect your 3D Blue-ray players straight to the TV set and bypass older receiver.
3. Depends on the circuitry - new TVs are good with upscaling and may outperform AVR in some instances. You can not expect miracles as it scales insufficient information to a much larger screen and resolution. Good upscaling means you see smoother images and motion but resolution perception can be still lower than with real HD footage.
Now I don't think you can find dedicated processor only. Probably cost is not that far from just making full AVR.
What I find lacking on the current market though is the lack of Pre-outs on the budget models.
I would much appreciate having cheap AVR and using it as processor for home cinema and my main amp for music.
Right now only Marantz "budget" NR1402 (no network capability) and NR1602 offer front pre-outs. Actually OnkyoTX-NA609 is cheaper and has eventually better functionality but bigger footprint.
On your questions that I can give opinion:
1. Processor takes care of the cinema sound formats and as said can be dedicated or integrated in AVR. If separate usually had also amplification for center and rear channels (in the past)
2. 3D ready AVR would pass the signal to your TV but you can also connect your 3D Blue-ray players straight to the TV set and bypass older receiver.
3. Depends on the circuitry - new TVs are good with upscaling and may outperform AVR in some instances. You can not expect miracles as it scales insufficient information to a much larger screen and resolution. Good upscaling means you see smoother images and motion but resolution perception can be still lower than with real HD footage.
As mentioned a processor, has no amplification. It just does digitial decoding, bass management/eq, source selection and volume. it will have 8 analogue outputs for connecting to power amp(s). An AVR is essentially a processor, pre-amp and power amp in one box.
If you existing AVR has decent amplifcation already and 7.1 analogue input, you could supplement it with a modern processor and continue to use your existing AVR amplification.
There are plenty of good processors about, but they tend to demand high prices. Good examples currently out are:-
Audiolab 8000AP and forthcoming 8200AP
Emotiva UMC-1
Primare SP32
Marantz AV7005 or AV8005
Arcam AV888
Onkyo PR-SC886 or PR-SC5509
Nad T175
Myryad MXD4000
Upcoming Outlaw 978
With your budget, choice will be severaly limited. In fact the Emotiva UMC-1 is about it really.
Unless you went second hand, but then you'll struggle to find anything with the latest HDMI goodness.
Also, many of the above processors concentrate on top quality audio, rather than muck about upscaling stuff. Audiolab and Primare for example. No idea if any of the above will be any better at upscaling compared to your current AVR.
As for room eq, it can help, all depends on your room. Shape, dimensions, build materials, furniture, rugs, curtains, windows, and how many people are sitting in it. Can't predict this. Some good articles here on judging how good/bad your room is and how to analyse them. A lot of EQ issues can be sorted by rearranging speakers and stuff in your room. I'd advise diagnosing your room first, see what problems you may have, before trying to throw a solution at them.
http://www.hifizine.com/2011/06/bass-integration-guide-part-1/
http://www.killahertz-acoustics.co.uk/practicalacoustics.doc
If you existing AVR has decent amplifcation already and 7.1 analogue input, you could supplement it with a modern processor and continue to use your existing AVR amplification.
There are plenty of good processors about, but they tend to demand high prices. Good examples currently out are:-
Audiolab 8000AP and forthcoming 8200AP
Emotiva UMC-1
Primare SP32
Marantz AV7005 or AV8005
Arcam AV888
Onkyo PR-SC886 or PR-SC5509
Nad T175
Myryad MXD4000
Upcoming Outlaw 978
With your budget, choice will be severaly limited. In fact the Emotiva UMC-1 is about it really.
Unless you went second hand, but then you'll struggle to find anything with the latest HDMI goodness.Also, many of the above processors concentrate on top quality audio, rather than muck about upscaling stuff. Audiolab and Primare for example. No idea if any of the above will be any better at upscaling compared to your current AVR.
As for room eq, it can help, all depends on your room. Shape, dimensions, build materials, furniture, rugs, curtains, windows, and how many people are sitting in it. Can't predict this. Some good articles here on judging how good/bad your room is and how to analyse them. A lot of EQ issues can be sorted by rearranging speakers and stuff in your room. I'd advise diagnosing your room first, see what problems you may have, before trying to throw a solution at them.
http://www.hifizine.com/2011/06/bass-integration-guide-part-1/
http://www.killahertz-acoustics.co.uk/practicalacoustics.doc
Schlange said:
I have to be honest I'm a bit confused by your question. If you are planning on B&W 802 Diamonds for your fronts, spending only $1500 on processing and amplification is seriously underselling them :? (Unless you are going to use a seperate high end stereo amp for the front L/R, and the av amp is just for the surrounds?). Lets just clarify, these speakers are £11,500 (sterling) a pair, and the Ci 700 surrounds are £500-£1100 a piece depending on which model you go for!
I would have thought, with speakers at that level you most definately would "notice the benefits of those horribly expensive pieces". Indeed you have to make sure that a $1500 av amp can actually drive them?
If the av amp is to be your only amplification and processing for both music and movies, I think you either need to consider adding a zero to your processor/amp budget, or downgrading the speaker choice to utilise the budget in a more balanced system.
If you are dead set on the 802D's then you should be looking at something like an Anthem Statement D2 or Classe 800 for processing, and amplifiers to match, probably serperate two channel amps for each of the Front L/R so they can be bi-amped. With a seperate 3 or 5 channel amp for the centre and surrounds. Though that said, ideally you should get a centre speaker to match the fronts such as the HTM2 Diamond, and therefore a dedicated 2 channel amp for that also!
As to your other questions:
1. Others have answered this I think. Splitting the processing and amp produces better sound quality.
2. No not if you can get a blu-ray player with twin HDMI outputs to split the sound (to your av processor) and picture (to your 3D enabled TV). Indicentally 3D isn't availble on DVD as far as I am aware, just blu-ray.
3. It all depends on the size of your screen and your seating distance. If you have a 40 inch screen sitting 20 feet away, you won't notice a difference (in fact you probably might not notice a difference with HD). By contrast, if you are sitting 12ft away from a 100" screen, your will most definately notice a difference with good quality upscaling of SD material. That said, it is likely to be a close call whether the best upscaler will be in your TV/PJ or your $1500 av amp. If you can clarify what display you are using, I can answer this a bit better?
4. I would say almost definately yes. That is a large space, so depending on how you choose to furnish it, you could have significant dips and peaks in the frequency range. If you have wood floors, and not a lot of soft furnishings good sound calibration, combined with some acoustic treatment (if you are prepared to go down that route) is almost essential I would have thought. Again, back to the $1500 av amp, it might struggle to fill a room that large with sound, the speakers are certainly going to need a lot of juice to reach the necessary volume level.
Hello mate
You might just get away with a top of the range Pioneer AV amp on the 802D's - but it wont light them up properly
I have the LX83 running a pair of 805 and HTM4s and its got the gas, but its not got the gas at the same time.
All 800 series are designed really to be driven by big power amps, you can hear it in music - however music still sounds stunning - so transparent and once setup up properly is a real nice sounding bit of kit, for films especially !!
the new LX85 will no doubt be a bit better so is worth considering - but the 83 will no doubt go down to a lot cheaper more within your budget before they sell out
It will get you going with those speakers - you have the luxury of every amp / receiver upgrade you can make the speakers will always be one step ahead so will make the most of your upgrade!
The Auto setup Advanced MCCAC does a good job of getting you a flat curve - with a bit on know how you can tweak it easy enough to get a much flatter curve - makes a big diff !!
The internal upscaling does definately improve the picture - as does a Tacima CS929 at £26 - improves sound as well, knits it all together better - well worth the money
I personally think this is a better option than a cheap processor and cheap power amp - unless you can pick up a 5 channel cheap used Krell or Classe or Bryston then suffer a cheaper processor until more money is available for an upgrade!!
You might just get away with a top of the range Pioneer AV amp on the 802D's - but it wont light them up properly
I have the LX83 running a pair of 805 and HTM4s and its got the gas, but its not got the gas at the same time.
All 800 series are designed really to be driven by big power amps, you can hear it in music - however music still sounds stunning - so transparent and once setup up properly is a real nice sounding bit of kit, for films especially !!
the new LX85 will no doubt be a bit better so is worth considering - but the 83 will no doubt go down to a lot cheaper more within your budget before they sell out
It will get you going with those speakers - you have the luxury of every amp / receiver upgrade you can make the speakers will always be one step ahead so will make the most of your upgrade!
The Auto setup Advanced MCCAC does a good job of getting you a flat curve - with a bit on know how you can tweak it easy enough to get a much flatter curve - makes a big diff !!
The internal upscaling does definately improve the picture - as does a Tacima CS929 at £26 - improves sound as well, knits it all together better - well worth the money
I personally think this is a better option than a cheap processor and cheap power amp - unless you can pick up a 5 channel cheap used Krell or Classe or Bryston then suffer a cheaper processor until more money is available for an upgrade!!
:type: Mahakaleshwar In Ujjain
The first thing you hear when you tell locals that you’re planning to visit the Mahakaleshwar temple is that you must ensure you attend the “Bhasm-Aarti”.We were told that the aarti begins at 4 a.m. and if we were to offer our own puja (prayer) separately, we’d have to do it after the aarti and we might spend a couple of hours waiting.
The first thing you hear when you tell locals that you’re planning to visit the Mahakaleshwar temple is that you must ensure you attend the “Bhasm-Aarti”.We were told that the aarti begins at 4 a.m. and if we were to offer our own puja (prayer) separately, we’d have to do it after the aarti and we might spend a couple of hours waiting.
:type: Mahakaleshwar In Ujjain
The first thing you hear when you tell locals that you’re planning to visit the Mahakaleshwar temple is that you must ensure you attend the “Bhasm-Aarti”.We were told that the aarti begins at 4 a.m. and if we were to offer our own puja (prayer) separately, we’d have to do it after the aarti and we might spend a couple of hours waiting.
The first thing you hear when you tell locals that you’re planning to visit the Mahakaleshwar temple is that you must ensure you attend the “Bhasm-Aarti”.We were told that the aarti begins at 4 a.m. and if we were to offer our own puja (prayer) separately, we’d have to do it after the aarti and we might spend a couple of hours waiting.
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