Audiophile?

[steve_1979]

...above 0.1 watts, which equate to volumes at which I almost never listen at...

Have you ever tried running your speakers off a headphone amp?

My O2 amp packs a whopping 641mW. It's a true powerhouse of an amp!

 

[Vladimir]

Jaeger-Lecoultre and Patek Philippe create mechanical time pieces that sell for thousands and millions even though they are less accurate than a $5 Casio quartz.

 

[TrevC]

Which are? (at 1 micro-watt to 1 milliwatt)

If you're going to be scientific in your hi-fi selection, you might as well base your decisions on proper science.

And what are the distortion figures of your speakers? And what's the size and nature (IE oscilloscope plot) of the distortion when you feed your speakers with a single cycle 60 hz test tone?

Valve amplifiers are generally inferior to SS ones. It's like insisting a Morris Minor is as good as a Ford Focus to suggest otherwise.

Absolute Rubbish.

Nope. Easily demonstrated proven fact. Valve amplifiers guzzle energy, require frequent replacements, and have far higher levels of distortion. That's not to say they can't sound nice, by the way.

How many times do I have to ask this?http://sound.westhost.com/valves/design.html

Please refer to my earlier post in this thread where I asked you to provide evidence to properly back up you statement.

Evidence which, so far, you have not provided.

And, by the way, would you like to hazard a guess as to how many watts my 8 watt SET Monoblocks consume. If your going to make a statement like "Valve amplifiers guzzle energy" let's at least be scientific about this and state how many watts a variety of amplifiers actually consumes.

It's approximately double the maximum audio power output plus the heaters. For distortion look at the specs of your amp and compare with any budget SS amp. A SET amp can't even reproduce an accurate sine wave at any sort of power. Have you tried your speakers with a budget amp?

... because listening to an accurate sine wave is really important, - isn't it?

If it can't accurately reproduce a sine wave it can't accurately reproduce a more complex waveform like a flute or piano either.

If that was true, nobody would listen to a Valve Amplifier, so quite clearly, it isn't.

It is true, you listen to one, so that obviously can't be true!

http://sound.westhost.com/valves/design.html

 

[TrevC]

Audio Research, Audio Note, Unison Research, Pathos, McIntosh, Balanced Audio technologies, Jadis, Audion, etc. must have it all wrong then.

They sell into a market that has people like you buying.

 

[EvPa]

Jaeger-Lecoultre and Patek Philippe create mechanical time pieces that sell for thousands and millions even though they are less accurate than a $5 Casio quartz.

Which is less acurate than a The Citizen Chronomaster.

But I better not talk too much about watches, It's been quite a while since I last bought one and I don't want to be tempted...

(to be honest I check Chrono24 and eBay quite frequently)

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Again the nonsense.

Infiniteloop gives you the benefit of his experience and you have naysayers with absolutely no qualification of any kind question his findings.

Cold fact is they have not heard the amp in question through his speakers for themselves.

Why would anyone take what they say has having any value?

Its comical.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Audio Research, Audio Note, Unison Research, Pathos, McIntosh, Balanced Audio technologies, Jadis, Audion, etc. must have it all wrong then.

They sell into a market that has people like you buying.

If you're going to get offensive about this, I'd really rather move on. You keep on listening to, and comparing, your test tones and sine waves and I'll carry on enjoying music through both my S8 and my Devialet.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Jaeger-Lecoultre and Patek Philippe create mechanical time pieces that sell for thousands and millions even though they are less accurate than a $5 Casio quartz.

Your analogy is interesting. Do the tiny, measurable, yet imperceptible differences in time affect in any way a persons perception of it?

Is this also not true of the tiny, measurable, yet imperceptible differences in distortion between Valve and SS Amps?

 

[Vladimir]

Jaeger-Lecoultre and Patek Philippe create mechanical time pieces that sell for thousands and millions even though they are less accurate than a $5 Casio quartz.

Your analogy is interesting. Do the tiny, measurable, yet imperceptible differences in time affect in any way a persons perception of it?

Is this also not true of the tiny, measurable, yet imperceptible differences in distortion between Valve and SS Amps?

We actually appreciate mechanical time pieces more for being outdated technology difficult to make, rare and exclusive, closer to art than convenience. But no owner is feeding himself the delusion they are superior at keeping time. This is the difference with audiophiles who cherish valve amps, turntables and fancy cables. If you accepted that you enjoy your luxury kit not for its technical performance but for other appeals, we would not have this debate at all.

 

[iQ Speakers]

Spot on Vlad and great analogy. The Devialet is a beutiful statement both in terms of form and function. And i guess it has somthing to do with people who buy valve amps, those glowing tubes, stainless steel and brass lovely. Plus they need careful looking after and tweaking you can interact with them, upgrade the tubes etc.

 

[manicm]

Actually Vladimir, Patek Philippe make their own movements entirely, whether quartz or otherwise

 

[drummerman]

Spot on Vlad and great analogy. The Devialet is a beutiful statement both in terms of form and function. And i guess it has somthing to do with people who buy valve amps, those glowing tubes, stainless steel and brass lovely. Plus they need careful looking after and tweaking you can interact with them, upgrade the tubes etc.

A very good point ... interaction beyond just pushing buttons from the arm chair.

Perhaps not so important for some, more for others.

So, enjoying nice Hifi is perhaps not only for the ears and eyes, but touch too.

Ergo, it may have to appeal to all our senses, at least for some.

Could that perhaps be a more apt description of an 'audiophile'?

 

[Vladimir]

Spot on Vlad and great analogy. The Devialet is a beutiful statement both in terms of form and function. And i guess it has somthing to do with people who buy valve amps, those glowing tubes, stainless steel and brass lovely. Plus they need careful looking after and tweaking you can interact with them, upgrade the tubes etc.

That valve amp is beautiful. And when you consider how crucial the quality of those transformers is to the sound, you got yourself a story about craftsmanship. The opposite is white goods electrical appliances which matter only by features vs price factor. In other words, not worth lusting over once you buy them.

 

[Vladimir]

Spot on Vlad and great analogy. The Devialet is a beutiful statement both in terms of form and function. And i guess it has somthing to do with people who buy valve amps, those glowing tubes, stainless steel and brass lovely. Plus they need careful looking after and tweaking you can interact with them, upgrade the tubes etc.

A very good point ... interaction beyond just pushing buttons from the arm chair.

Perhaps not so important for some, more for others.

So, enjoying nice Hifi is perhaps not only for the ears and eyes, but touch too.

Ergo, it may have to appeal to all our senses, at least for some.

Could that perhaps be a more apt description of an 'audiophile'?

Engineers measure in watts, volts, amperes, ohms... only measurement the audiophile needs is emotions. If it doesn't stir you inside, VFM = 0. Our unit of measurement is endorphins, our yard stick is big grins, foot tapping etc. It could be Nordost, Ongaku, Sondek, studio JBLs, old EV Patricians, state of the art Devialet, whatever moves you. Here is where wordsmiths like the WHF crew are valuable.

Also, these debates help with bowel movements, so not completely pointless.

 

[iQ Speakers]

I think the same can be said for tuntables all that wonderfull engineering.

As for watchs I have a Pequigent hand built in the French Alps solid stainless steel strap with little screws! No body has really heard of them and the quality is so much better than say a TAG for less money. Having said that just been on there website and they dont make my strap style any more to me that was there signiture and uniqueness, shame.

 

[steve_1979]

Spot on Vlad and great analogy. The Devialet is a beutiful statement both in terms of form and function. And i guess it has somthing to do with people who buy valve amps, those glowing tubes, stainless steel and brass lovely. Plus they need careful looking after and tweaking you can interact with them, upgrade the tubes etc.

A very good point ... interaction beyond just pushing buttons from the arm chair.

Perhaps not so important for some, more for others.

So, enjoying nice Hifi is perhaps not only for the ears and eyes, but touch too.

Ergo, it may have to appeal to all our senses, at least for some.

Could that perhaps be a more apt description of an 'audiophile'?

Aesthetics are probably 80% of the reason why I upgraded from Yamaha to Nakamichi for my pre-amp. It made no difference to the sound.

 

[Vladimir]

That metal strap on its own is a masterpiece. Love it. have you tried it with a NATO strap?

 

[iQ Speakers]

No! It's the strap that makes it and they have dropped them!

 

[Vladimir]

No! It's the strap that makes it and they have dropped them!

But NATO strap is so much cooler.

 

[TrevC]

Audio Research, Audio Note, Unison Research, Pathos, McIntosh, Balanced Audio technologies, Jadis, Audion, etc. must have it all wrong then.

They sell into a market that has people like you buying.

If you're going to get offensive about this, I'd really rather move on. You keep on listening to, and comparing, your test tones and sine waves and I'll carry on enjoying music through both my S8 and my Devialet.

It was blunt and true, but hardly offensive. If you want to see offensive, check out Thompson. I don't listen to test tones, no need, the shortcomings of single ended Triode amplifiers were very well known and documented in the 1930s.

 

[Native_bon]

My gripe is with those who summarily dismiss Valve Amplifiers as being generally 'inferior'.

They are usually more worried about how a system measures, than how real it sounds

Can not agree more. Now if measurement is key, evryone would put together a system just based on mesasurement. I.e Sensitivity to ohms to power handling. I wonder how many here have put together a system on just pure perfect measurements with out even listening to the system before buying. That will be a first.

Edit: cause something tells me you will get a far different result from what you truely desire from your system.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Jaeger-Lecoultre and Patek Philippe create mechanical time pieces that sell for thousands and millions even though they are less accurate than a $5 Casio quartz.

Your analogy is interesting. Do the tiny, measurable, yet imperceptible differences in time affect in any way a persons perception of it?

Is this also not true of the tiny, measurable, yet imperceptible differences in distortion between Valve and SS Amps?

We actually appreciate mechanical time pieces more for being outdated technology difficult to make, rare and exclusive, closer to art than convenience. But no owner is feeding himself the delusion they are superior at keeping time. This is the difference with audiophiles who cherish valve amps, turntables and fancy cables. If you accepted that you enjoy your luxury kit not for its technical performance but for other appeals, we would not have this debate at all.

Um, No.

You cannot attempt to presume what appeals to me.

This is about sound quality alone.

Sorry.

 

[Infiniteloop]

My gripe is with those who summarily dismiss Valve Amplifiers as being generally 'inferior'.

They are usually more worried about how a system measures, than how real it sounds

Can not agree more. Now if measurement is key, evryone would put together a system just based on mesasurement. I.e Sensitivity to ohms to power handling. I wonder how many here have put together a system on just pure perfect measurements with out even listening to the system before buying. That will be a first.

Edit: cause something tells me you will get a far different result from what you truely desire from your system.

It's also why all recorded music requires the ears of a sound engineer.

 

[CnoEvil]

This is about sound quality alone.

Sorry.

This remarkably simple concept seems to get lost on here...where there are still a few who would agree with you.

 

[Infiniteloop]

This is about sound quality alone.

Sorry.

This remarkably simple concept seems to get lost on here...where there are still a few who would agree with you.

It seems some come on here with 'issues' that they really should sort via another platform.