Audiophile?

[pyrrhon]

We are lunatics.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Drummerman, make your next thread....

Why do you guys come here?

I don't get it, seems some are too cheap or too broke or just plain pitifully sad to just enjoy this hobby with all its eccentricity.

How can calling yourself an audiophile give reason for arguments about ones personality?

Crazy.

 

[Vladimir]

People who passed the test.

 

[steve_1979]

I like listening to music.

As a true audiophile I prefer pink noise and sine wave sweeps.

 

[MajorFubar]

Audiophile was once at least a half-respectable term for people who invested in decent kit to reproduce sound in their homes as accurately as possible. As much as anything these people were often electronics enthusiasts who built their own kit. But over the past 35 years it has degenerated into a farcical term associated with extremists who hang paperclips from their curtains like Peter Belt and think different perfectly-functional USB cables between their computer and their DAC affect the sound quality of the audio. They are IMO rightly ridiculed by the masses, but I begrudge being tarred with the same brush when I call myself an audiophile.

 

[davedotco]

Audiophile was once at least a half-respectable term for people who invested in decent kit to reproduce sound in their homes as accurately as possible. As much as anything these people were often electronics enthusiasts who built their own kit. But over the past 35 years it has degenerated into a farcical term associated with extremists who hang paperclips from their curtains like Peter Belt and think different perfectly-functional USB cables between their computer and their DAC affect the sound quality of the audio. They are IMO rightly ridiculed by the masses, but I begrudge being tarred with the same brush when I call myself an audiophile.

Personally I think the term is horrible, I can be seriously snobish about decent hi-fi on occasion but would not dream of calling myself any such thing.

 

[fr0g]

Not really tricky. If someone dives into second hand in order to gain quality at his or her budget, then he or she is an audiophile. The money thing was based on new prices. I personally have never bought anything second hand other than a skateboard when I was a kid, so that market is alien to me...

I'm curious as to why you never buy second hand?

And does that include cars and houses too?

No, you got me!

We have indeed got 1 second hand car and house!

As for why...I like new and I like the warranty.

I also don't sell stuff on. I have either stuff gathering dust or I give it away generally. The only thing I ever sold online was a set of SPD pedals which I hated and went back to BMX pedals on my mountain bike!

 

[fr0g]

frOg:

If you live near South Cheshire and would like to hear both a Devialet-based system and a Valve-based system, to compare side by side, you would be most welcome to listen to mine. I think I can change your mind about Valves not being of the 'highest fidelity'.

I am not suggesting valves can't sound "pleasant". Same with vinyl. But if you're chasing highest fidelity in the literal sense, then they are off the menu simply because of their distortion figures.

 

[lindsayt]

Which are? (at 1 micro-watt to 1 milliwatt)

If you're going to be scientific in your hi-fi selection, you might as well base your decisions on proper science.

And what are the distortion figures of your speakers? And what's the size and nature (IE oscilloscope plot) of the distortion when you feed your speakers with a single cycle 60 hz test tone?

 

[ID.]

In this thread, audiphiles get defensive and deny that there is anything weird about them or their hobby

Then we get back to our standard bickering.

 

[ellisdj]

I dont see the issue with being called an "audiohpile" I am happy to be one

Someone interested in the domesic or maybe commercial equipment industry designed to make listening to music or other content more enjoyable and less like just a noise.

I dont buy into an audiophile's main interest being music replayed as accurately as possible because this is a load of tosh - its very rarely accurate at all when you think about it - how can so many possible product combinations that are used to do this in all manner of listening environments none that are like the original environment create an accurate sound for all recorded sound - however its still a lovely psychological goal and target for improvement for some.

Regardless the audiophile is interested and enjoys listening to the sound of these systems when they play back this music and other content. They are also interested in the improvement of the playback of music / content by these systems so the continual critique / analysis of the playback is part of being an "audiophile". The areas for improvement are infinite and personal.

The only negative thing about being an audiophile is the solitude - its a solo sport as only the individual hears exactly what they do.

 

[ellisdj]

I forgot the other negative thing is the relentless pure negativity from Trev C - if he is an audiophile then I change my mind and dont want to be one.

I dont think he would call him self that - I am sure others would give him an alternative title ....

 

[TrevC]

Audiophile. Someone that obsessively buys and sells hifi equipment, imagines they have superior hearing and can hear differences even when they cannot possibly exist. *crazy*

 

[TrevC]

I forgot the other negative thing is the relentless pure negativity from Trev C - if he is an audiophile then I change my mind and dont want to be one.

I dont think he would call him self that - I am sure others would give him an alternative title ....

I think being able to buy a really good sounding system that is also inexpensive is a positive thing. Of course those that have spent the same money as you would on a decent car may disagree. :O)

 

[ellisdj]

Sorry Trev C confused by that comment - is it a dig at my 03 mk1 Ford Focus - how would you know I drive that are you stalking me?

 

[MajorFubar]

Personally I think the term is horrible, I can be seriously snobish about decent hi-fi on occasion but would not dream of calling myself any such thing.

I know what you mean but perhaps we're missing a better term. I'm more than just a music lover: a music lover can listen to their favourite symphony through their iPhone speaker and enjoy it, but that would drive me insane and I'd rather not bother. So I'm a music lover who has taken the opportunity to buy equipment which can reproduce it as honestly in my home as possible, bearing in mind various restrictions, not least budget. That once labelled me as an audiophile, which I was happy with in that context, but I'm not happy with the nutjob connotations now attached to the term.

 

[TrevC]

Which are? (at 1 micro-watt to 1 milliwatt)

If you're going to be scientific in your hi-fi selection, you might as well base your decisions on proper science.

And what are the distortion figures of your speakers? And what's the size and nature (IE oscilloscope plot) of the distortion when you feed your speakers with a single cycle 60 hz test tone?

Valve amplifiers are generally inferior to SS ones. It's like insisting a Morris Minor is as good as a Ford Focus to suggest otherwise.

 

[TrevC]

Sorry Trev C confused by that comment - is it a dig at my 03 mk1 Ford Focus - how would you know I drive that are you stalking me?

I don't know you drive that are stalking you. :O)

 

[fr0g]

Which are? (at 1 micro-watt to 1 milliwatt)

If you're going to be scientific in your hi-fi selection, you might as well base your decisions on proper science.

And what are the distortion figures of your speakers? And what's the size and nature (IE oscilloscope plot) of the distortion when you feed your speakers with a single cycle 60 hz test tone?

If you want to achieve maximum fidelity then you need to address everything in your power to address.

Of course, speakers are the weakest link. I don't think anyone would dispute that.

So if you address every distortion and do what you can possibly do, at whatever budget, you end up with speakers with active crossovers powered by solid state amps. You certainly do not end up with valves and horns.

But I can totally accept that valves and horns can sound quite enthralling and going in that direction could be great fun. But it isn't aiming at best fidelity IMO as you're not addressing everything in the chain that can be addressed.

It depends what floats your boat.

 

[matt49]

If you want to achieve maximum fidelity then you need to address everything in your power to address.

Of course, speakers are the weakest link. I don't think anyone would dispute that.

So if you address every distortion and do what you can possibly do, at whatever budget, you end up with speakers with active crossovers powered by solid state amps. You certainly do not end up with valves and horns.

If measurable distortion is the enemy, you also avoid speakers in boxes and speakers with electrodynamic drivers. Also best to avoid any crossover in the presence zone, active or passive. ESLs with a single driver from 20kHz+ down to mid-bass, perhaps with an integrated sub if space is limited, will distort less than any other speakers.

 

[FennerMachine]

The IEEE disagree regarding valve vs transistor.

Also, amplifiers have many measurable parameters that can affect performance.

If a transistor amplifier measures well with THD, frequency response and power output it can still sound awful due to being bad in the other 10 or so.

A valve amplifier might measure worse in these 3 areas but better in the other 10 and sound better as a result.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Reverse snobbery.....lol

Cheap and cheerful v expensive.....

To quote Kenneth Williams in one carry on movie, when told the peasants are revolting....

Yeeeees! They don't half stink abit.....

Anyone know the opposite of an Audiophile?

Is it broke!

 

[lindsayt]

Which are? (at 1 micro-watt to 1 milliwatt)

If you're going to be scientific in your hi-fi selection, you might as well base your decisions on proper science.

And what are the distortion figures of your speakers? And what's the size and nature (IE oscilloscope plot) of the distortion when you feed your speakers with a single cycle 60 hz test tone?

Valve amplifiers are generally inferior to SS ones. It's like insisting a Morris Minor is as good as a Ford Focus to suggest otherwise.

Fr0g and TrevC, please please please back up your stance on SET amplifiers by providing the answer to my question highlighted in bold.

If you can't do that then your stance on valves vs solid state is totally unproven. Your stance is based on commonly available measurements above 0.1 watts, which equate to volumes at which I almost never listen at.

Fr0g, likewise for speakers, but this time for all volumes between 30 dbs and 110 dbs and all frequencies between 20 hz and 20 khz. Let's compare, for example, your small low efficiency coned and domed speakers vs my large corner horns. Let's also measure thermal compression in your speakers and mine. Let's also look at single cycle tone bursts at various frequencies to see how our speakers cope with transients.

My point being, that Fr0g and TrevC seem to style themselves as selecting hi-fi on the basis of objective measurements, when the reality is that they haven't, simply because no comprehensive enough set of measurements have ever been done for amplifiers nor speakers.

I am a different type of audiophile to Fr0g and TrevC. When it comes to technical measurements in hi-fi, the more I've found out about them, the more I realise that I don't know what I'd like to know from them.

 

[marou]

Anyone who reads and/or posts to this and/or similar forums is an audiophile.

 

[matt49]

My point being, that Fr0g and TrevC seem to style themselves as selecting hi-fi on the basis of objective measurements, when the reality is that they haven't, simply because no comprehensive enough set of measurements have ever been done for amplifiers nor speakers.

It's certainly the case that reliable distortion measurements for speakers are very hard to find in the public domain. Even when measurements are given, the measurement methodology will vary from one test set-up to another, which makes the measurements practically useless.

Theory may be a helpful guide. For instance, all other things being equal (they very rarely are), active Xovers are better than passive. The problem with theory is that people tend to fetishize one approach at the expense of others. We all do it.

As things stand, nothing can replace listening to speakers.