Audiophile?

[Infiniteloop]

As for fidelity, I doubt most people would be able to tell the difference between the S8 and my Devialet 200 in a line matched blind test.

Quite possibly, or in fact the A500 that TrevC aludes to below. I'm pretty sure it would be just as good (in a line matched blind test). So yes, I still think valves are very low in VFM.

If I ever need an amp again, I'd probably simply go for a decent Yamaha AV receiver to be honest, something with all the bells and whistles. It too would be impossible to tell apart in a line matched blind test.

I'm sure the Behringer is a very fine Amp, particularly if you're on a budget. So it's somewhat surprising that it isn't seen as a 'reference standard' product (although that's what Behringer claim). If it's so good, why isn't everyone using one?

I had a Sony ES (can't remember which one) receiver some years ago. Did lots of things very well, including Dolby 5.1 surround sound (I bought it for my home cinema). Music through it was awful though.

 

[TrevC]

As for fidelity, I doubt most people would be able to tell the difference between the S8 and my Devialet 200 in a line matched blind test.

Quite possibly, or in fact the A500 that TrevC aludes to below. I'm pretty sure it would be just as good (in a line matched blind test). So yes, I still think valves are very low in VFM.

If I ever need an amp again, I'd probably simply go for a decent Yamaha AV receiver to be honest, something with all the bells and whistles. It too would be impossible to tell apart in a line matched blind test.

I'm sure the Behringer is a very fine Amp, particularly if you're on a budget. So it's somewhat surprising that it isn't seen as a 'reference standard' product (although that's what Behringer claim). If it's so good, why isn't everyone using one?

I had a Sony ES (can't remember which one) receiver some years ago. Did lots of things very well, including Dolby 5.1 surround sound (I bought it for my home cinema). Music through it was awful though.

The Behringer looks awful so can't ever be an audiophile product. It needs prettying up. If they also made an integrated by adding input switching and remote control who knows?

 

[Native_bon]

I wonder how many here have put together a system on just pure perfect measurements with out even listening to the system before buying...

With the exception of speakers and headphones I have.

All of my DAC's, pre-amps and power amps were bought without an audition based on their measurements which show their distortion levels to be below audibility.

My point is to put together an entire system, speakers, amp & source just based on measurements. My reason for saying this, is so many Hifi products measuremnets are inaccurate. This is also the case in the music recording industry.

 

[fr0g]

As for fidelity, I doubt most people would be able to tell the difference between the S8 and my Devialet 200 in a line matched blind test.

Quite possibly, or in fact the A500 that TrevC aludes to below. I'm pretty sure it would be just as good (in a line matched blind test). So yes, I still think valves are very low in VFM.

If I ever need an amp again, I'd probably simply go for a decent Yamaha AV receiver to be honest, something with all the bells and whistles. It too would be impossible to tell apart in a line matched blind test.

I'm sure the Behringer is a very fine Amp, particularly if you're on a budget. So it's somewhat surprising that it isn't seen as a 'reference standard' product (although that's what Behringer claim). If it's so good, why isn't everyone using one?

I had a Sony ES (can't remember which one) receiver some years ago. Did lots of things very well, including Dolby 5.1 surround sound (I bought it for my home cinema). Music through it was awful though.

Almost certainly mostly expectation bias.

Think about it, they make AV receivers, as you say for film. Some film soundtracks are amazing rich high dynamic range masterpieces. So do they sound awful? Nope.

Suddenly when it's only stereo music, it sounded "awful". Unlikely to be true to be honest.

 

[Vladimir]

Sony ES amps sound brilliant. Very well made and designed gear.

 

[Laurens_B]

I did test AV receiver versus a bunch of stereo amps. I don't see myself buying a stereo amp anytime soon. In my experience they sound exactly the same, and give loads of added functionality at a usually very good price. Scale of economy and the big market/competition places them in lots of sales for very good prices.

 

[Native_bon]

Same here. Done blind test could not put about av amp from 2 channel amp.

 

[Infiniteloop]

I wonder how many here have put together a system on just pure perfect measurements with out even listening to the system before buying...

With the exception of speakers and headphones I have.

All of my DAC's, pre-amps and power amps were bought without an audition based on their measurements which show their distortion levels to be below audibility.

My point is to put together an entire system, speakers, amp & source just based on measurements. My reason for saying this, is so many Hifi products measuremnets are inaccurate. This is also the case in the music recording industry.

Are you going to base this system around a Devialet then? - It has the lowest recorded distortion figures....

 

[Infiniteloop]

As for fidelity, I doubt most people would be able to tell the difference between the S8 and my Devialet 200 in a line matched blind test.

Quite possibly, or in fact the A500 that TrevC aludes to below. I'm pretty sure it would be just as good (in a line matched blind test). So yes, I still think valves are very low in VFM.

If I ever need an amp again, I'd probably simply go for a decent Yamaha AV receiver to be honest, something with all the bells and whistles. It too would be impossible to tell apart in a line matched blind test.

I'm sure the Behringer is a very fine Amp, particularly if you're on a budget. So it's somewhat surprising that it isn't seen as a 'reference standard' product (although that's what Behringer claim). If it's so good, why isn't everyone using one?

I had a Sony ES (can't remember which one) receiver some years ago. Did lots of things very well, including Dolby 5.1 surround sound (I bought it for my home cinema). Music through it was awful though.

Almost certainly mostly expectation bias.

Think about it, they make AV receivers, as you say for film. Some film soundtracks are amazing rich high dynamic range masterpieces. So do they sound awful? Nope.

Suddenly when it's only stereo music, it sounded "awful". Unlikely to be true to be honest.

So now you're calling me a liar?

 

[Infiniteloop]

Sony ES amps sound brilliant. Very well made and designed gear.

Aren't all Amps supposed to sound the same?

 

[Infiniteloop]

As for fidelity, I doubt most people would be able to tell the difference between the S8 and my Devialet 200 in a line matched blind test.

Quite possibly, or in fact the A500 that TrevC aludes to below. I'm pretty sure it would be just as good (in a line matched blind test). So yes, I still think valves are very low in VFM.

If I ever need an amp again, I'd probably simply go for a decent Yamaha AV receiver to be honest, something with all the bells and whistles. It too would be impossible to tell apart in a line matched blind test.

I'm sure the Behringer is a very fine Amp, particularly if you're on a budget. So it's somewhat surprising that it isn't seen as a 'reference standard' product (although that's what Behringer claim). If it's so good, why isn't everyone using one?

I had a Sony ES (can't remember which one) receiver some years ago. Did lots of things very well, including Dolby 5.1 surround sound (I bought it for my home cinema). Music through it was awful though.

The Behringer looks awful so can't ever be an audiophile product. It needs prettying up. If they also made an integrated by adding input switching and remote control who knows?

If it sounds so great, why would anyone care what it looks like?

(I do agree that it looks like it fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. - Design, even for inexpensive oblects, doesn't have to be that awful.)

 

[Vladimir]

Sony ES amps sound brilliant. Very well made and designed gear.

Aren't all Amps supposed to sound the same?

Nope. Valve amps and underpowered amps in general sound lacking.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Sony ES amps sound brilliant. Very well made and designed gear.

Aren't all Amps supposed to sound the same?

Nope. Valve amps and underpowered amps in general sound lacking.

So all the others sound the same?

If you think Valve Amps sound 'lacking' - you obviously haven't heard the ones I have. I'm not saying they're all great. Like all Amps, they all sound different, but the best ones, as with SS Amps, can be spectacularly good.

 

[Vladimir]

Sony ES amps sound brilliant. Very well made and designed gear.

Aren't all Amps supposed to sound the same?

Nope. Valve amps and underpowered amps in general sound lacking.

So all the others sound the same?

If you think Valve Amps sound 'lacking' - you obviously haven't heard the ones I have. I'm not saying they're all great. Like all Amps, they all sound different, but the best ones, as with SS Amps, can be spectacularly good.

Absolutely NOTHING spectacular in 24Wpc mate. Sorry. I prefer power over bling. *unknw*

 

[FennerMachine]

IEEE conclude that tubes or valves have lower overall distortion than solid state amplifiers.

I have read their article and the accompanying reports several times.

What report, with measurements, can anyone who says solid state or transistors are better than valves point me to to refute this?

From the amplifiers I have demoed the most natural sounding one was a valve amplifier.

 

[Vladimir]

Are you refering to this article?

 

[FennerMachine]

Yes, including the sidebars.

 

[fr0g]

As for fidelity, I doubt most people would be able to tell the difference between the S8 and my Devialet 200 in a line matched blind test.

Quite possibly, or in fact the A500 that TrevC aludes to below. I'm pretty sure it would be just as good (in a line matched blind test). So yes, I still think valves are very low in VFM.

If I ever need an amp again, I'd probably simply go for a decent Yamaha AV receiver to be honest, something with all the bells and whistles. It too would be impossible to tell apart in a line matched blind test.

I'm sure the Behringer is a very fine Amp, particularly if you're on a budget. So it's somewhat surprising that it isn't seen as a 'reference standard' product (although that's what Behringer claim). If it's so good, why isn't everyone using one?

I had a Sony ES (can't remember which one) receiver some years ago. Did lots of things very well, including Dolby 5.1 surround sound (I bought it for my home cinema). Music through it was awful though.

Almost certainly mostly expectation bias.

Think about it, they make AV receivers, as you say for film. Some film soundtracks are amazing rich high dynamic range masterpieces. So do they sound awful? Nope.

Suddenly when it's only stereo music, it sounded "awful". Unlikely to be true to be honest.

So now you're calling me a liar?

Read what I said. You¨'re obviously intelligent. Did I at any point imply you were lying? No, I thought not.

 

[Vladimir]

Yes, including the sidebars.

I'll wait for TrevC to refute it with his superior knowledge in electronics. *dance4*

Meanwhile, have you read about Matti Otala's contribution to audio?

 

[FennerMachine]

No, I'll have to look him up!

Any interesting links for him?

 

[drummerman]

Sony ES amps sound brilliant. Very well made and designed gear.

Aren't all Amps supposed to sound the same?

Nope. Valve amps and underpowered amps in general sound lacking.

So all the others sound the same?

If you think Valve Amps sound 'lacking' - you obviously haven't heard the ones I have. I'm not saying they're all great. Like all Amps, they all sound different, but the best ones, as with SS Amps, can be spectacularly good.

Absolutely NOTHING spectacular in 24Wpc mate. Sorry. I prefer power over bling. *unknw*

You obviously have never heard a good valve amplifier through reasonably efficient speakers ...

 

[TrevC]

Sony ES amps sound brilliant. Very well made and designed gear.

Aren't all Amps supposed to sound the same?

Well, as you said "I doubt most people would be able to tell the difference between the S8 and my Devialet 200 in a line matched blind test." that appears to be the case.

Two amplifiers that could hardly be more different in terms of distortion or design, the valve thing with loads of distortion,. the Devialet with vanishingly small distortion levels.

 

[TrevC]

Sony ES amps sound brilliant. Very well made and designed gear.

Aren't all Amps supposed to sound the same?

Nope. Valve amps and underpowered amps in general sound lacking.

So all the others sound the same?

If you think Valve Amps sound 'lacking' - you obviously haven't heard the ones I have. I'm not saying they're all great. Like all Amps, they all sound different, but the best ones, as with SS Amps, can be spectacularly good.

Absolutely NOTHING spectacular in 24Wpc mate. Sorry. I prefer power over bling. *unknw*

You obviously have never heard a good valve amplifier through reasonably efficient speakers ...

Your ears cannot be trusted. You think mains leads can change performance.

 

[drummerman]

Sony ES amps sound brilliant. Very well made and designed gear.

Aren't all Amps supposed to sound the same?

Nope. Valve amps and underpowered amps in general sound lacking.

So all the others sound the same?

If you think Valve Amps sound 'lacking' - you obviously haven't heard the ones I have. I'm not saying they're all great. Like all Amps, they all sound different, but the best ones, as with SS Amps, can be spectacularly good.

Absolutely NOTHING spectacular in 24Wpc mate. Sorry. I prefer power over bling. *unknw*

You obviously have never heard a good valve amplifier through reasonably efficient speakers ...

Your ears cannot be trusted. You think mains leads can change performance.

Reads like you haven't either (heard a good valve amplifier with reasonably efficient speakers)

 

[TrevC]

Sony ES amps sound brilliant. Very well made and designed gear.

Aren't all Amps supposed to sound the same?

Nope. Valve amps and underpowered amps in general sound lacking.

So all the others sound the same?

If you think Valve Amps sound 'lacking' - you obviously haven't heard the ones I have. I'm not saying they're all great. Like all Amps, they all sound different, but the best ones, as with SS Amps, can be spectacularly good.

Absolutely NOTHING spectacular in 24Wpc mate. Sorry. I prefer power over bling. *unknw*

You obviously have never heard a good valve amplifier through reasonably efficient speakers ...

Your ears cannot be trusted. You think mains leads can change performance.

Reads like you haven't either (heard a good valve amplifier with reasonably efficient speakers)

Valve amplifiers are poor performers and guzzle power so I personally wouldn't consider one now. I did make one in the 60s, using 6L6, 6SN7 and ECC33 valves and Parmeko transformers, but I admit my speakers weren't great because they were home made too. Sonotone 9TAHC cartridge on a Garrard 2025TC, wow.

According to Mr Loop most people can't hear the difference. I'll take his word for it.