audio cable ...help

[Native_bon]

Recording studios use basic cables to master your music. Cables react differently in different systems. Its got nothing to do with the cables but how it reacts within the system.. Oh dear.. cables are even worse than talking religion now. It should now be dnt talk cables or it will end in an argument.

 

[TrevC]

It's even harder with imaginary differences. :dance:

Unlike you I remain largely agnostic on this. I have been round the hi-fi block a fair number of times and have heard, what I percieve to be clear differences in cables, during the normal course of selling and listening to hi-fi.

I completely accept that in many cases these effects were not 'real' and my experience of blind testing supports this, however there are some cases where I think other factors come into play.

There are some speaker cables of my aquaintance that seem to be voiced with a slight tonal 'uptilt', not sufficient to sound overtly bright, but sufficient to to sound controlled and detailed, I also find that some unshielded line level cables seen to have a slightly different sound to the norm.

Time for a spell in the psychiatrist's chair maybe......... :?

You're fine. Speaker cables can sound different because of the varying voltage drop due to resistance and the varying impedance of the speakers.. Interconnects and anything on the mains side, totally imaginary.

Sorry dude.... but 100%, plain incorrect. Crazy that you are actually posting that if not as a wind up, and I guess there are rules against that. So I'm guessing you believe they are imaginary beauase you gave never noticed any difference. It doesn't mean that other people haven't had genuine experiences to the contrary.

I don't think TrevC is arguing that people haven't had experiences to the contrary, more whether their subjective perceptions reflect objective reality.

Why is it so hard for some people to accept other peoples TRUTHES. I KNOW that I heard a major difference between two interconnects. Stop telling us we are imagining things. We are not....you are simply ignorant.

I'm not denying that you heard differences, merely suggesting you are mistaken. My ears kid me sometimes, I'm fairly confident yours kid you. We are all vulnerable to the placebo effect.

Anyway ad hom means you lose. That's the 'truthes' (sic)

 

[sublime]

is it possible for cables to colour the sound in some way, in which case it would make sense that some people prefer one cable over another. I'v read that silver in speaker cable can brighten the sound.

 

[TrevC]

is it possible for cables to colour the sound in some way, in which case it would make sense that some people prefer one cable over another. I'v read that silver in speaker cable can brighten the sound.

'tis a myth.

 

[slice]

The sadness of all these arguments is that with a will it can be properly addressed in a sensible way statistically.

There will always be some doubt. If you toss a coin (which you think might be biased towards heads, say) in the air fifty times and get 35 heads, theoretically it could still be a fair coin. But gaining this number of heads or more with a fair coin would only occur by chance less than a half of 1% of the time. So, although not ABSOLUTELY certain, you would reasonably conclude the coin was biased.

There is absolutely no reason why cable manufacturers couldn't use public, fair and statistically verifiable tests similar to these to show their pricy interconnects are better beyond all reasonable doubt than, say, a decent £20 cable. As this doesn't seem to happen, I remain on the side of the sceptics.

 

[BenLaw]

Given that none of the proffered reasons stands scrutiny, there is clearly another reason for your reticence

What is this, a cross-examination? I have no wish to share details of my system, and I believe it's my right not to do so without providing reasons that stand up to your scrutiny, isn't I? (Double-checks House Rules for the one about meeting BenLaw's approval, finds nothing).

And enough of the suggestion of some mysterious reason of your own imagining: what with gel suggesting people who read the magazine and don't regsiter for the website are odd, and you doing the CSI bit, this is forum is all a bit creepy today...

You and I both know gel's oddities, general or specific, have nothing to do with what we're discussing. Nor do your tangents about house rules and CSI.

Name, address, occupation, all these things and more I can understand not wanting to reveal on a hifi forum. One's kit, though, I would suggest is something more people would be content to reveal than not. Nonetheless, of course it is your right not to tell us anything that you see fit.

Just as it is my right to infer why that might be. None of the reasons you suggest make sense so I infer there's another. You referred to telling us what cables you had as 'system waving', so I infer you have non-basic aftermarket cables. Your self-appointed role on these threads is ostensibly to be an impartial person pointing out when others go to far and saying people should live and let live. True, TrevC is frequently blunt and sometimes abusive. However, there's plenty on the other side who you don't have a go at who are doing no better. You too are not beyond a bit of rudeness and aggravation ('objectionalist' being but your latest and most persistent). For all those reasons I infer partiality in the stance you take. You of course have chosen neither to confirm nor deny that, so you'll have to leave me to my inferences.

 

[BenLaw]

There is absolutely no reason why cable manufacturers couldn't use public, fair and statistically verifiable tests similar to these to show their pricy interconnects are better beyond all reasonable doubt than, say, a decent £20 cable.

They wouldn't even have to show they're better as far as I'm concerned. Just showing that they're different would be novel.

 

[matt49]

8 out of 10 cats prefer my cables.

There are good commercial reasons why very few manufacturers (and I don't just mean hi-fi) subject their products to public blind testing.

And in case you think the pharmaceutical industry is an exception: it isn't. If we applied this standard to, say, Prozac i.e. if it had to be demonstrated in blind tests that Prozac actually works, then it wouldn't be licensed.

 

[Alec]

8 out of 10 cats prefer my cables.

There are good commercial reasons why very few manufacturers (and I don't just mean hi-fi) subject their products to public blind testing.

And in case you think the pharmaceutical industry is an exception: it isn't. If we applied this standard to, say, Prozac i.e. if it had to be demonstrated in blind tests that Prozac actually works, then it wouldn't be licensed.

I've no specific knowledge about Prozac, but the medical industry certainly likes us to believe a lot of things that don't hold up under scrutiny.

 

[spiny norman]

Just as it is my right to infer why that might be. None of the reasons you suggest make sense so I infer there's another. You referred to telling us what cables you had as 'system waving', so I infer you have non-basic aftermarket cables. Your self-appointed role on these threads is ostensibly to be an impartial person pointing out when others go to far and saying people should live and let live. True, TrevC is frequently blunt and sometimes abusive. However, there's plenty on the other side who you don't have a go at who are doing no better. You too are not beyond a bit of rudeness and aggravation ('objectionalist' being but your latest and most persistent). For all those reasons I infer partiality in the stance you take. You of course have chosen neither to confirm nor deny that, so you'll have to leave me to my inferences.

Oh, I give up. You seem to have decided you are one of the self-appointed 'senior members' here, so go ahead and infer what nonsense you like (even if it's as serious an allegation as 'you have non-basic aftermarket cables') if it makes you happy.

It's an EDITEDing hobby, for EDITEDing's sake - relax, have a laugh, and stop treating it like a badly scripted episode of 'Judge John Deed', in which you are the troubled, but righteous, crusader.

If you can't manage that, please now go and find someone else to target in your never-ending quest to be loved...

 

[BenLaw]

CSI? Judge John Deed? Never ending quest to be loved? Very poor, and rather odd.

Also, I've seen you express great distaste and distress at any suggestion of swearing, so no doubt you will be self-flagellating to the max later.

But we can agree, it's just a sodding hobby. Feel free to tell us what speaker cable and interconnects you use as part of that hobby.

 

[ISAC69]

It's even harder with imaginary differences. :dance:

Unlike you I remain largely agnostic on this. I have been round the hi-fi block a fair number of times and have heard, what I percieve to be clear differences in cables, during the normal course of selling and listening to hi-fi.

I completely accept that in many cases these effects were not 'real' and my experience of blind testing supports this, however there are some cases where I think other factors come into play.

There are some speaker cables of my aquaintance that seem to be voiced with a slight tonal 'uptilt', not sufficient to sound overtly bright, but sufficient to to sound controlled and detailed, I also find that some unshielded line level cables seen to have a slightly different sound to the norm.

Time for a spell in the psychiatrist's chair maybe......... :?

You're fine. Speaker cables can sound different because of the varying voltage drop due to resistance and the varying impedance of the speakers.. Interconnects and anything on the mains side, totally imaginary.

Sorry dude.... but 100%, plain incorrect. Crazy that you are actually posting that if not as a wind up, and I guess there are rules against that. So I'm guessing you believe they are imaginary beauase you gave never noticed any difference. It doesn't mean that other people haven't had genuine experiences to the contrary.

I don't think TrevC is arguing that people haven't had experiences to the contrary, more whether their subjective perceptions reflect objective reality.

Why is it so hard for some people to accept other peoples TRUTHES. I KNOW that I heard a major difference between two interconnects. Stop telling us we are imagining things. We are not....you are simply ignorant.

+1 :cheer:

 

[namefail]

And now for something completely different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeXjq70JHe8

 

[TrevC]

Given that none of the proffered reasons stands scrutiny, there is clearly another reason for your reticence

What is this, a cross-examination? I have no wish to share details of my system, and I believe it's my right not to do so without providing reasons that stand up to your scrutiny, isn't I? (Double-checks House Rules for the one about meeting BenLaw's approval, finds nothing).

And enough of the suggestion of some mysterious reason of your own imagining: what with gel suggesting people who read the magazine and don't regsiter for the website are odd, and you doing the CSI bit, this is forum is all a bit creepy today...

You and I both know gel's oddities, general or specific, have nothing to do with what we're discussing. Nor do your tangents about house rules and CSI.

Name, address, occupation, all these things and more I can understand not wanting to reveal on a hifi forum. One's kit, though, I would suggest is something more people would be content to reveal than not. Nonetheless, of course it is your right not to tell us anything that you see fit.

Just as it is my right to infer why that might be. None of the reasons you suggest make sense so I infer there's another. You referred to telling us what cables you had as 'system waving', so I infer you have non-basic aftermarket cables. Your self-appointed role on these threads is ostensibly to be an impartial person pointing out when others go to far and saying people should live and let live. True, TrevC is frequently blunt and sometimes abusive. However, there's plenty on the other side who you don't have a go at who are doing no better. You too are not beyond a bit of rudeness and aggravation ('objectionalist' being but your latest and most persistent). For all those reasons I infer partiality in the stance you take. You of course have chosen neither to confirm nor deny that, so you'll have to leave me to my inferences.

I have never ever been abusive. Not once, not ever.

 

[TrevC]

All blind quality cable tests have proven that they do not make a difference. (Fact)

No verifiable tests proving otherwise have been produced anywhere in the world by anybody. (Fact)

Unless the above facts can be disproved, then the argument is closed.

Accept it or prove otherwise.

Bill

I'm sorry bill. You are wrong as well. No scientific evidence exists to prove or disprove either theory. Therefore, all we can do is debate, and use our god given instincts and ears. Now I know this is hard for some of us, but I know I DID hear a definite difference. That is a fact. But neither you or I can prove or disprove it

"Next!"

It's easy to prove by using a null test where cheapies and foo cables are fed with an identical audio signal and the difference signal between them measured.

It's not in the interests of the foo cable manufacturers to carry out any tests that demonstrate there are no differences, so that is why they are not carried out.

I'm perfectly happy for you to go on kidding yourselves and wasting money, it's most amusing.

 

[ISAC69]

All blind quality cable tests have proven that they do not make a difference. (Fact)

No verifiable tests proving otherwise have been produced anywhere in the world by anybody. (Fact)

Unless the above facts can be disproved, then the argument is closed.

Accept it or prove otherwise.

Bill

I'm sorry bill. You are wrong as well. No scientific evidence exists to prove or disprove either theory. Therefore, all we can do is debate, and use our god given instincts and ears. Now I know this is hard for some of us, but I know I DID hear a definite difference. That is a fact. But neither you or I can prove or disprove it

"Next!"

It's easy to prove by using a null test where cheapies and foo cables are fed with an identical audio signal and the difference signal between them measured.

It's not in the interests of the foo cable manufacturers to carry out any tests that demonstrate there are no differences, so that is why they are not carried out.

I'm perfectly happy for you to go on kidding yourselves and wasting money, it's most amusing.

Some of us are very happy to waste money on good cables because we do hear difference betweeen them and we don't care if you find it

anusing or not .

 

[abacus]

All blind quality cable tests have proven that they do not make a difference. (Fact)

No verifiable tests proving otherwise have been produced anywhere in the world by anybody. (Fact)

Unless the above facts can be disproved, then the argument is closed.

Accept it or prove otherwise.

Bill

I'm sorry bill. You are wrong as well. No scientific evidence exists to prove or disprove either theory. Therefore, all we can do is debate, and use our god given instincts and ears. Now I know this is hard for some of us, but I know I DID hear a definite difference. That is a fact. But neither you or I can prove or disprove it

"Next!"

I suggest you do some more research, as the statements I made are fact, yours however are mere hearsay and personal opinion. (You may not like it when facts prove you wrong, but that’s life)

Bill

 

[TrevC]

All blind quality cable tests have proven that they do not make a difference. (Fact)

No verifiable tests proving otherwise have been produced anywhere in the world by anybody. (Fact)

Unless the above facts can be disproved, then the argument is closed.

Accept it or prove otherwise.

Bill

I'm sorry bill. You are wrong as well. No scientific evidence exists to prove or disprove either theory. Therefore, all we can do is debate, and use our god given instincts and ears. Now I know this is hard for some of us, but I know I DID hear a definite difference. That is a fact. But neither you or I can prove or disprove it

"Next!"

It's easy to prove by using a null test where cheapies and foo cables are fed with an identical audio signal and the difference signal between them measured.

It's not in the interests of the foo cable manufacturers to carry out any tests that demonstrate there are no differences, so that is why they are not carried out.

I'm perfectly happy for you to go on kidding yourselves and wasting money, it's most amusing.

Some of us are very happy to waste money on good cables because we do hear difference betweeen them and we don't care if you find it

anusing or not .

You could have used the money you wasted on foo cables to buy a decent home cinema sub. :rofl:

 

[ISAC69]

home cinema sub. upgrade is a waste of money .A basic one for my needs is enough . That's prove how ignorate you are .

 

[TrevC]

home cinema sub. upgrade is a waste of money .A basic one for my needs is enough . That's prove how ignorate you are .