Covenanter
Well-known member
- Jul 20, 2012
- 96
- 50
- 18,620
matt49 said:
I guess that might be right but the only way to be sure you have avoided it is to remove the possibility.
Chris
Vladimir said:Enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHx6BX3HZJc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhHnAmxT1Gc
Right there ^
I don't understand anyone interested in HiFi who says different interconnects don't make any difference,or can be an improvement over another. When Igot my first budget HiFi setup....I dabbled with finding a suitable interconnect.I originally had a cheap one from Cambridge audio,it was OK but was interested to see if I could improve sound. I bought some from ixos. Twice the price...but sounded worse. Much worse. So bought some atlas Questor's. These sounded amazing, a huge improvement on both connects, especially the ixos. I could tell the difference in a blind test between the three any day of the week. I still have the atlas and would heartily recommend them to anyone. They sounded better in every way. Timing....bass...crisper treble....throw them a cliche and they will knock it out of the park. If you can't tell the difference I think your HiFi equipment could be missing out and you might get a better sound from the denon mini system. 
A quick look at the Review/Best Buy section on this website regarding cables suggests that there is a difference - either that or the reviewers are talking through their backsides.
I use QED cables, mostly inexpensive and have had the same cables for a few years now - I've changed speakers, tv and blu ray but have kept the same cables and I'm happy. :cheer:
I use QED cables, mostly inexpensive and have had the same cables for a few years now - I've changed speakers, tv and blu ray but have kept the same cables and I'm happy. :cheer:
Deliriumbassist
Well-known member
- Apr 27, 2011
- 170
- 129
- 18,770
Vladimir said:
Quoting a test that has such a small listener sample size (just the one in one case!) hardly makes for a compelling argument.
radiorog said:
/tongue in cheek/ I don't understand those listeners and companies who say there is such a big difference, yet refuse to go and collect James Randi's 1 million pund prize if that's simple and easy
/tongue out of cheek/radiorog said:I don't understand anyone interested in HiFi who says different interconnects don't make any difference,or can be an improvement over another. When Igot my first budget HiFi setup....I dabbled with finding a suitable interconnect.I originally had a cheap one from Cambridge audio,it was OK but was interested to see if I could improve sound. I bought some from ixos. Twice the price...but sounded worse. Much worse. So bought some atlas Questor's. These sounded amazing, a huge improvement on both connects, especially the ixos. I could tell the difference in a blind test between the three any day of the week. I still have the atlas and would heartily recommend them to anyone. They sounded better in every way. Timing....bass...crisper treble....throw them a cliche and they will knock it out of the park. If you can't tell the difference I think your HiFi equipment could be missing out and you might get a better sound from the denon mini system.
Were many veils lifted? Was it completely night and day?
See, I've been told my system isn't resolving enough, somewhat laughably, when I say there isn't that big a difference between my Chord Chorus or my Atlas Navigators (both £200-plus) and, say my Fisual interconnects, which were a tenner.
I think the differences aren't as great as you describe, rather it's more subtle, but down to the descriptive abilities of whoever is writing their piece on a forum. My subtle might be your night and day, but the reality would be minimal.
radiorog said:I don't understand anyone interested in HiFi who says different interconnects don't make any difference,or can be an improvement over another. When Igot my first budget HiFi setup....I dabbled with finding a suitable interconnect.I originally had a cheap one from Cambridge audio,it was OK but was interested to see if I could improve sound. I bought some from ixos. Twice the price...but sounded worse. Much worse. So bought some atlas Questor's. These sounded amazing, a huge improvement on both connects, especially the ixos. I could tell the difference in a blind test between the three any day of the week. I still have the atlas and would heartily recommend them to anyone. They sounded better in every way. Timing....bass...crisper treble....throw them a cliche and they will knock it out of the park. If you can't tell the difference I think your HiFi equipment could be missing out and you might get a better sound from the denon mini system.
Oh really? That makes you very, very special because nobody else has been able too. You could make a lot of money taking up various challenges that have been set.
pauln said:radiorog said:I don't understand anyone interested in HiFi who says different interconnects don't make any difference,or can be an improvement over another. When Igot my first budget HiFi setup....I dabbled with finding a suitable interconnect.I originally had a cheap one from Cambridge audio,it was OK but was interested to see if I could improve sound. I bought some from ixos. Twice the price...but sounded worse. Much worse. So bought some atlas Questor's. These sounded amazing, a huge improvement on both connects, especially the ixos. I could tell the difference in a blind test between the three any day of the week. I still have the atlas and would heartily recommend them to anyone. They sounded better in every way. Timing....bass...crisper treble....throw them a cliche and they will knock it out of the park. If you can't tell the difference I think your HiFi equipment could be missing out and you might get a better sound from the denon mini system.
Oh really? That makes you very, very special because nobody else has been able too. You could make a lot of money taking up various challenges that have been set.
Indeed.
The most illuminating point about that statement is that radiorog has clearly never taken part in any blind test that was carried out in any kind of sensible, organised manner.
If nothing else, the experience would have shown just how difficult it is to hear cable differences under such conditions and put a degree of doubt in his mind about what he believes to be true.
Under such conditions it is extremely difficult to reliably tell the difference between cables, so difficult in fact, that the industry rubbishes the methodology and most reviewers or manufacturers simply refuse to take part.
Like radiorog, I have often heard clear identifiable differences between cables in the course of normal use, but unlike radiorog I have taken part in blind tests and have discovered just how unreliable these impressions can be.
radiorog said:I don't understand anyone interested in HiFi who says different interconnects don't make any difference,or can be an improvement over another. When Igot my first budget HiFi setup....I dabbled with finding a suitable interconnect.I originally had a cheap one from Cambridge audio,it was OK but was interested to see if I could improve sound. I bought some from ixos. Twice the price...but sounded worse. Much worse. So bought some atlas Questor's. These sounded amazing, a huge improvement on both connects, especially the ixos. I could tell the difference in a blind test between the three any day of the week. I still have the atlas and would heartily recommend them to anyone. They sounded better in every way. Timing....bass...crisper treble....throw them a cliche and they will knock it out of the park. If you can't tell the difference I think your HiFi equipment could be missing out and you might get a better sound from the denon mini system.
What is timing?
quote=the record spot]
Were many veils lifted? Was it completely night and day?
See, I've been told my system isn't resolving enough, somewhat laughably, when I say there isn't that big a difference between my Chord Chorus or my Atlas Navigators (both £200-plus) and, say my Fisual interconnects, which were a tenner.
I think the differences aren't as great as you describe, rather it's more subtle, but down to the descriptive abilities of whoever is writing their piece on a forum. My subtle might be your night and day, but the reality would be minimal.
[/quote]
I do agree here. I think maybe my night and day,or chalk and cheese even, referrence could well have been due to one set of intrrconnects being particularly bad...ie the ixos. The difference beteeen the cambridge and the atlas was more subtle.....but there was enough discrrnabke difference for me to feel gery impressed with the atlas....and i would honestly say getting decent cables,and not rubbish ones....is as important as getting a decent amp,or at least.....not a rubbish one.
radiorog said:I don't understand anyone interested in HiFi who says different interconnects don't make any difference,or can be an improvement over another. When Igot my first budget HiFi setup....I dabbled with finding a suitable interconnect.I originally had a cheap one from Cambridge audio,it was OK but was interested to see if I could improve sound. I bought some from ixos. Twice the price...but sounded worse. Much worse. So bought some atlas Questor's. These sounded amazing, a huge improvement on both connects, especially the ixos. I could tell the difference in a blind test between the three any day of the week. I still have the atlas and would heartily recommend them to anyone. They sounded better in every way. Timing....bass...crisper treble....throw them a cliche and they will knock it out of the park. If you can't tell the difference I think your HiFi equipment could be missing out and you might get a better sound from the denon mini system.
Were many veils lifted? Was it completely night and day?
See, I've been told my system isn't resolving enough, somewhat laughably, when I say there isn't that big a difference between my Chord Chorus or my Atlas Navigators (both £200-plus) and, say my Fisual interconnects, which were a tenner.
I think the differences aren't as great as you describe, rather it's more subtle, but down to the descriptive abilities of whoever is writing their piece on a forum. My subtle might be your night and day, but the reality would be minimal.
[/quote]
I do agree here. I think maybe my night and day,or chalk and cheese even, referrence could well have been due to one set of intrrconnects being particularly bad...ie the ixos. The difference beteeen the cambridge and the atlas was more subtle.....but there was enough discrrnabke difference for me to feel gery impressed with the atlas....and i would honestly say getting decent cables,and not rubbish ones....is as important as getting a decent amp,or at least.....not a rubbish one.
pauln said:radiorog said:I don't understand anyone interested in HiFi who says different interconnects don't make any difference,or can be an improvement over another. When Igot my first budget HiFi setup....I dabbled with finding a suitable interconnect.I originally had a cheap one from Cambridge audio,it was OK but was interested to see if I could improve sound. I bought some from ixos. Twice the price...but sounded worse. Much worse. So bought some atlas Questor's. These sounded amazing, a huge improvement on both connects, especially the ixos. I could tell the difference in a blind test between the three any day of the week. I still have the atlas and would heartily recommend them to anyone. They sounded better in every way. Timing....bass...crisper treble....throw them a cliche and they will knock it out of the park. If you can't tell the difference I think your HiFi equipment could be missing out and you might get a better sound from the denon mini system.
Oh really? That makes you very, very special because nobody else has been able too. You could make a lot of money taking up various challenges that have been set.
Paul...you could challenge me all the money either one of us has....and i would take that challenge.i think i have thrown the ixoss cables in the bin tho so i may not be able to do so anymore.i will have a look for them....and if i find them....bring on thenay sayers.apparently i have a lot of money to esrn.and trust me....itll be the easiest money i have ever earnt since placing my teeth in salt in an eggcup.
davedotco said:pauln said:radiorog said:I don't understand anyone interested in HiFi who says different interconnects don't make any difference,or can be an improvement over another. When Igot my first budget HiFi setup....I dabbled with finding a suitable interconnect.I originally had a cheap one from Cambridge audio,it was OK but was interested to see if I could improve sound. I bought some from ixos. Twice the price...but sounded worse. Much worse. So bought some atlas Questor's. These sounded amazing, a huge improvement on both connects, especially the ixos. I could tell the difference in a blind test between the three any day of the week. I still have the atlas and would heartily recommend them to anyone. They sounded better in every way. Timing....bass...crisper treble....throw them a cliche and they will knock it out of the park. If you can't tell the difference I think your HiFi equipment could be missing out and you might get a better sound from the denon mini system.
Oh really? That makes you very, very special because nobody else has been able too. You could make a lot of money taking up various challenges that have been set.
Indeed.
The most illuminating point about that statement is that radiorog has clearly never taken part in any blind test that was carried out in any kind of sensible, organised manner.
If nothing else, the experience would have shown just how difficult it is to hear cable differences under such conditions and put a degree of doubt in his mind about what he believes to be true.
Under such conditions it is extremely difficult to reliably tell the difference between cables, so difficult in fact, that the industry rubbishes the methodology and most reviewers or manufacturers simply refuse to take part.
Like radiorog, I have often heard clear identifiable differences between cables in the course of normal use, but unlike radiorog I have taken part in blind tests and have discovered just how unreliable these impressions can be.
Im sorry ddc.....with the grestest respect,i believe you are wrong on this one.maybe the cable you tested were closer in performance than the ones i tested.....but mine really were a huge difference and i know i could tell the difference blind and that was in a lot less revealing system than i have now. I totally believe all peope who say no difference on cables just havent heard two sets so obviously different....but they are out there.
radiorog said:pauln said:radiorog said:I don't understand anyone interested in HiFi who says different interconnects don't make any difference,or can be an improvement over another. When Igot my first budget HiFi setup....I dabbled with finding a suitable interconnect.I originally had a cheap one from Cambridge audio,it was OK but was interested to see if I could improve sound. I bought some from ixos. Twice the price...but sounded worse. Much worse. So bought some atlas Questor's. These sounded amazing, a huge improvement on both connects, especially the ixos. I could tell the difference in a blind test between the three any day of the week. I still have the atlas and would heartily recommend them to anyone. They sounded better in every way. Timing....bass...crisper treble....throw them a cliche and they will knock it out of the park. If you can't tell the difference I think your HiFi equipment could be missing out and you might get a better sound from the denon mini system.
Oh really? That makes you very, very special because nobody else has been able too. You could make a lot of money taking up various challenges that have been set.
Paul...you could challenge me all the money either one of us has....and i would take that challenge.i think i have thrown the ixoss cables in the bin tho so i may not be able to do so anymore.i will have a look for them....and if i find them....bring on thenay sayers.apparently i have a lot of money to esrn.and trust me....itll be the easiest money i have ever earnt since placing my teeth in salt in an eggcup.
I didn't offer a challenge myself, I said that there were challenges out there - sadly I don't have the facilities or the cash to put up but as far as I know the James Randi $1,000,000 cable challenge is still open... BTW, I am pretty sure that it has been established scientifically that the auditory memory of a human is in the order of 3 seconds which is why in the abx tests an instant switchover is required. That begs the question as to how you or anyone else can accurately remember what your previous cables sounded like, particularly if the differences are subtle.
radiorog said:davedotco said:pauln said:radiorog said:I don't understand anyone interested in HiFi who says different interconnects don't make any difference,or can be an improvement over another. When Igot my first budget HiFi setup....I dabbled with finding a suitable interconnect.I originally had a cheap one from Cambridge audio,it was OK but was interested to see if I could improve sound. I bought some from ixos. Twice the price...but sounded worse. Much worse. So bought some atlas Questor's. These sounded amazing, a huge improvement on both connects, especially the ixos. I could tell the difference in a blind test between the three any day of the week. I still have the atlas and would heartily recommend them to anyone. They sounded better in every way. Timing....bass...crisper treble....throw them a cliche and they will knock it out of the park. If you can't tell the difference I think your HiFi equipment could be missing out and you might get a better sound from the denon mini system.
Oh really? That makes you very, very special because nobody else has been able too. You could make a lot of money taking up various challenges that have been set.
Indeed.
The most illuminating point about that statement is that radiorog has clearly never taken part in any blind test that was carried out in any kind of sensible, organised manner.
If nothing else, the experience would have shown just how difficult it is to hear cable differences under such conditions and put a degree of doubt in his mind about what he believes to be true.
Under such conditions it is extremely difficult to reliably tell the difference between cables, so difficult in fact, that the industry rubbishes the methodology and most reviewers or manufacturers simply refuse to take part.
Like radiorog, I have often heard clear identifiable differences between cables in the course of normal use, but unlike radiorog I have taken part in blind tests and have discovered just how unreliable these impressions can be.
Im sorry ddc.....with the grestest respect,i believe you are wrong on this one.maybe the cable you tested were closer in performance than the ones i tested.....but mine really were a huge difference and i know i could tell the difference blind and that was in a lot less revealing system than i have now. I totally believe all peope who say no difference on cables just havent heard two sets so obviously different....but they are out there.
I have never said that there is no difference between cables.
My point is that your confidence is born of a lack of experience.
No one who has ever taken part in a well conducted blind cable test would ever make the claims that you do, they would know that, even if there is a difference, picking that difference on a reliable basis is extremely difficult.
davedotco said:radiorog said:davedotco said:pauln said:radiorog said:I don't understand anyone interested in HiFi who says different interconnects don't make any difference,or can be an improvement over another. When Igot my first budget HiFi setup....I dabbled with finding a suitable interconnect.I originally had a cheap one from Cambridge audio,it was OK but was interested to see if I could improve sound. I bought some from ixos. Twice the price...but sounded worse. Much worse. So bought some atlas Questor's. These sounded amazing, a huge improvement on both connects, especially the ixos. I could tell the difference in a blind test between the three any day of the week. I still have the atlas and would heartily recommend them to anyone. They sounded better in every way. Timing....bass...crisper treble....throw them a cliche and they will knock it out of the park. If you can't tell the difference I think your HiFi equipment could be missing out and you might get a better sound from the denon mini system.
Oh really? That makes you very, very special because nobody else has been able too. You could make a lot of money taking up various challenges that have been set.
Indeed.
The most illuminating point about that statement is that radiorog has clearly never taken part in any blind test that was carried out in any kind of sensible, organised manner.
If nothing else, the experience would have shown just how difficult it is to hear cable differences under such conditions and put a degree of doubt in his mind about what he believes to be true.
Under such conditions it is extremely difficult to reliably tell the difference between cables, so difficult in fact, that the industry rubbishes the methodology and most reviewers or manufacturers simply refuse to take part.
Like radiorog, I have often heard clear identifiable differences between cables in the course of normal use, but unlike radiorog I have taken part in blind tests and have discovered just how unreliable these impressions can be.
Im sorry ddc.....with the grestest respect,i believe you are wrong on this one.maybe the cable you tested were closer in performance than the ones i tested.....but mine really were a huge difference and i know i could tell the difference blind and that was in a lot less revealing system than i have now. I totally believe all peope who say no difference on cables just havent heard two sets so obviously different....but they are out there.
I have never said that there is no difference between cables.
My point is that your confidence is born of a lack of experience.
No one who has ever taken part in a well conducted blind cable test would ever make the claims that you do, they would know that, even if there is a difference, picking that difference on a reliable basis is extremely difficult.
It's even harder with imaginary differences. :dance:
BenLaw said:
My personal choices are hardly relevant to this discussion, since i am neither suggesting products to anyone here, nor suggesting they are deluded idiots.
pauln said:radiorog said:pauln said:radiorog said:I don't understand anyone interested in HiFi who says different interconnects don't make any difference,or can be an improvement over another. When Igot my first budget HiFi setup....I dabbled with finding a suitable interconnect.I originally had a cheap one from Cambridge audio,it was OK but was interested to see if I could improve sound. I bought some from ixos. Twice the price...but sounded worse. Much worse. So bought some atlas Questor's. These sounded amazing, a huge improvement on both connects, especially the ixos. I could tell the difference in a blind test between the three any day of the week. I still have the atlas and would heartily recommend them to anyone. They sounded better in every way. Timing....bass...crisper treble....throw them a cliche and they will knock it out of the park. If you can't tell the difference I think your HiFi equipment could be missing out and you might get a better sound from the denon mini system.
Oh really? That makes you very, very special because nobody else has been able too. You could make a lot of money taking up various challenges that have been set.
Paul...you could challenge me all the money either one of us has....and i would take that challenge.i think i have thrown the ixoss cables in the bin tho so i may not be able to do so anymore.i will have a look for them....and if i find them....bring on thenay sayers.apparently i have a lot of money to esrn.and trust me....itll be the easiest money i have ever earnt since placing my teeth in salt in an eggcup.
I didn't offer a challenge myself, I said that there were challenges out there - sadly I don't have the facilities or the cash to put up but as far as I know the James Randi $1,000,000 cable challenge is still open... BTW, I am pretty sure that it has been established scientifically that the auditory memory of a human is in the order of 3 seconds which is why in the abx tests an instant switchover is required. That begs the question as to how you or anyone else can accurately remember what your previous cables sounded like, particularly if the differences are subtle.
Little finger in corner of mouth.."one miiillion dollars?!" Thats some prize fund.
I expect i could tell the difference because i had lived with the cambridge cables for over a year and i suspect the long term memory for audio recognition is differejt to the zhort term memory usuaully used in ab tests with hifi equipment.i find thus fact interedting as i definitrly really struggle to remember what an amp or cd player sounded like by the time i have swapped over the cables and often i would infuriate shop owners by seitiching over maybe twenty times.now i know why!
But my long term test...i honestly heard a massive difference.
TrevC said:
Unlike you I remain largely agnostic on this. I have been round the hi-fi block a fair number of times and have heard, what I percieve to be clear differences in cables, during the normal course of selling and listening to hi-fi.
I completely accept that in many cases these effects were not 'real' and my experience of blind testing supports this, however there are some cases where I think other factors come into play.
There are some speaker cables of my aquaintance that seem to be voiced with a slight tonal 'uptilt', not sufficient to sound overtly bright, but sufficient to to sound controlled and detailed, I also find that some unshielded line level cables seen to have a slightly different sound to the norm.
Time for a spell in the psychiatrist's chair maybe......... :?
davedotco said:
in fairness they are usually pretty comfortable so would be good for listening to music in
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