Arguments for and against calibration

[Deleted member 2457]

So is price the biggest barrier for many forum members? That seems a common concern, because people are anxious it'd be wasted money if their TV goes kaput, or simply believe calibration is generally too expensive.

Yep. My Philips 32pd9731d got a line mark down the screen, and my Pioneer 5090 got a big black mark down the right of the screen! My Panasonic actually has a little bit of that going on too, but you can only see it when the screen is off! I did take a photo of it the other day, I will have to upload it sometime, because the Pioneer one was twice as big and even blacker! I am now wondering what exactly it is? It was definitely screen burn on the Pioneer because I had two people inspect it! My Panasonic has a tiny bit of image retention but nothing too bad.

My slight image retention has gone, didn't even have to use the tool thing!

I know where it came from too - Sky News logo top left! I have just avoided that channel and it has gone.

 

[strapped for cash]

Picking up one of the concerns some people had about paying for calibration - specifically that it would be wasted money if their set ever developed a fault and had to be replaced - I checked with Steve (the guy who's doing mine and SoSJ's in a few weeks) and he confirmed he always gives owners a full report detailing all their settings, so if the TV ever has to be repaired or replaced they can recreate the settings.

Right, but that would be a different TV. You can calibrate two "identical" TVs in the same room, under the same lighting conditions, and you'll end up with different settings for each. If you ask any calibrator, they'll advise that they've never ended up using the same settings twice. That's why a meter is needed; otherwise the calibrator would simply turn up and input the correct settings for your television (assuming they've calibrated the same model before).

There's always a risk that your TV will develop a fault and that money spent on calibration will be wasted; but it's a small risk and certainly one worth taking. Just be sure you're happy with the TV before calibrating. That's why I clocked up 500 hours use. I figured that, if no problem had developed by then, the odds were against a problem developing further down the line.

It's better to go into the process with your eyes open, though.

 

[bigboss]

Picking up one of the concerns some people had about paying for calibration - specifically that it would be wasted money if their set ever developed a fault and had to be replaced - I checked with Steve (the guy who's doing mine and SoSJ's in a few weeks) and he confirmed he always gives owners a full report detailing all their settings, so if the TV ever has to be repaired or replaced they can recreate the settings.

Right, but that would be a different TV. You can calibrate two "identical" TVs in the same room, under the same lighting conditions, and you'll end up with different settings for each. If you ask any calibrator, they'll advise that they've never ended up using the same settings twice. That's why a meter is needed; otherwise the calibrator would simply turn up and input the correct settings for your television (assuming they've calibrated the same model before).

There's always a risk that your TV will develop a fault and that money spent on calibration will be wasted; but it's a small risk and certainly one worth taking. Just be sure you're happy with the TV before calibrating. That's why I clocked up 500 hours use. I figured that, if no problem had developed by then, the odds were against a problem developing further down the line.

It's better to go into the process with your eyes open, though.

But then, if your TV has gone for repairs & back, if you use the same settings the calibrator has given in the report, you're back to the same settings the TV was before going for repairs. So it doesn't matter, especially if it's coming back to the same room.

 

[BenLaw]

Presumably even then it would depend on the nature of the repair. For example, if the screen was replaced I'm guessing that would be so fundamental as to throw off the original calibration.

 

[strapped for cash]

Presumably even then it would depend on the nature of the repair. For example, if the screen was replaced I'm guessing that would be so fundamental as to throw off the original calibration.

Exactly.

If we consider typical Panasonic plasma issues (blobs and bands), these can only be fixed by replacing the panel. A new panel would constitute an entirely new TV (from a calibrator's perspective) and would require different settings. Your listed settings would be no more use than copying settings posted online.

Remember, plasma calibration settings are only good for around 12-18 months (THX and ISF recommend a tune-up after 16 months). The panel will drift over time and eventually the original settings will be off (though not wildly so). Fortunately, calibrators charge less for a tune-up than the initial calibration (usually about £100). It'd be nice if plasma calibration was a one-time-only deal; but some maintenance is needed.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Presumably even then it would depend on the nature of the repair. For example, if the screen was replaced I'm guessing that would be so fundamental as to throw off the original calibration.

Exactly.

If we consider typical Panasonic plasma issues (blobs and bands), these can only be fixed by replacing the panel. A new panel would constitute an entirely new TV (from a calibrator's perspective) and would require different settings. Your listed settings would be no more use than copying settings posted online.

Remember, plasma calibration settings are only good for around 12-18 months (THX and ISF recommend a tune-up after 16 months). The panel will drift over time and eventually the original settings will be off (though not wildly so). Fortunately, calibrators charge less for a tune-up than the initial calibration (usually about £100). It'd be nice if plasma calibration was a one-time-only deal; but some maintenance is needed.

No way! :O. Didn't know that!

 

[strapped for cash]

Just to add to the above, the same would be true of OLED TVs. As evidenced by the blue diode panic, an OLED TV will drift over time, requiring the same kind of maintenance. It's conceivable that OLED TVs will drift more than plasma TVs. (Though I'm in no position to state this as fact.)

In any case, the TV will still be more accurate than if no advanced calibration was performed. From what I've been told, you'd typically see delta errors of around four on a plasma TV at the point of tune-up, so just on the cusp of errors detectable by eye. (As you know, it's generally observed that delta errors under three are imperceptible.)

 

[strapped for cash]

No way! :O. Didn't know that!

I'm guessing you definitely won't be getting your TV calibrated now then.

 

[BenLaw]

Just to add to the above, the same would be true of OLED TVs. As evidenced by the blue diode panic, an OLED TV will drift over time, requiring the same kind of maintenance. It's conceivable that OLED TVs will drift more than plasma TVs. (Though I'm in no position to state this as fact.)

In any case, the TV will still be more accurate than if no advanced calibration was performed. From what I've been told, you'd typically see delta errors of around four on a plasma TV at the point of tune-up, so just on the cusp of errors detectable by eye. (As you know, it's generally observed that delta errors under three are imperceptible.)

And will you get this maintenance done on yours?

 

[strapped for cash]

I have to say, the BBC's Glastonbury coverage looks utterly stunning on my calibrated VT65. Flicking between the calibrated settings and the THX and Normal presets, there's simply no contest. The calibrated Professional modes beat the other picture presets in every regard.

 

[strapped for cash]

And will you get this maintenance done on yours?

Absolutely. I'll probably be moving some time in the next year, so subtle adjustment to account for the new viewing environment would be needed anyway. (This isn't true of the cal night and 3D settings, since there's no ambient light in the room when the TV is calibrated.)

 

[mr malarky]

Just to add to the above, the same would be true of OLED TVs. As evidenced by the blue diode panic, an OLED TV will drift over time, requiring the same kind of maintenance. It's conceivable that OLED TVs will drift more than plasma TVs. (Though I'm in no position to state this as fact.)

In any case, the TV will still be more accurate than if no advanced calibration was performed. From what I've been told, you'd typically see delta errors of around four on a plasma TV at the point of tune-up, so just on the cusp of errors detectable by eye. (As you know, it's generally observed that delta errors under three are imperceptible.)

And will you get this maintenance done on yours?

I was aware its recommended that calibration be rechecked periodically as the panel ages, it hasn't put me off. You don't 'have' to do it (its not as though the TV will stop working or suddenly give a bad picture if you don't), its just an option if you want ensure you're continuing to get the best possible output from the panel, and something I'd be happy to do.

 

[ellisdj]

I wouldnt panic about a set drifitng - it would be so minor that you wouldnt even notice - if however you put a metre on it you may notice a bit of change.

However some of that could be slight variations in the readings of the metre as well so again dont panic

Think how long 3 years is - will you be looking to buy a new set in 3 years, quite possibly - 1 calibration will do you for 3 years no problems, unless you ultimately see a change, which I very much doubt. Also 3 years is a long time to be watching a TV that is considerably better than what you see uncalibrated - for say £200 thats not much a year £70 a year, less than £6 a month when broken down - its a very cheap investment.

If you are still bothered learn to do it youself - I have its not that hard at all and its extremely rewarding and you cna do it as amny times as you want for as many tvs in the future as you want - you will need new metres but thats probably 1 per new tv so every 3+ years or more depending

 

[beavis78]

Hi new to this forum, as you have had your tv calibrated Strapped, and seem to be very happy with the results would you recommend me getting my 5090 kuro done had it for 3 half years, will it make a big difference in pq, would it be worth it ?? or would I be better off in saving up for a newer panasonic ?? not really seen much to make me want to change it up until now.....

 

[ellisdj]

Hi new to this forum, as you have had your tv calibrated Strapped, and seem to be very happy with the results would you recommend me getting my 5090 kuro done had it for 3 half years, will it make a big difference in pq, would it be worth it ?? or would I be better off in saving up for a newer panasonic ?? not really seen much to make me want to change it up until now.....

Hi Beavis

I just sold a 5090 to get the 65VT65 - let me tell you from experience - it will make a massive difference and is very worth doing!

 

[Deleted member 2457]

Hi new to this forum, as you have had your tv calibrated Strapped, and seem to be very happy with the results would you recommend me getting my 5090 kuro done had it for 3 half years, will it make a big difference in pq, would it be worth it ?? or would I be better off in saving up for a newer panasonic ?? not really seen much to make me want to change it up until now.....

Hi Beavis

I just sold a 5090 to get the 65VT65 - let me tell you from experience - it will make a massive difference and is very worth doing!

Glad you are happy mate. :cheers:

 

[ellisdj]

Just for a quick addition - I have just recalibrated my set - I did it after a week of owning it and its now probably been on for 150-200 hour ish - thats long enough.

There was quite a bit of difference in the calibration needed this time so the image has drifted - however I also was getting used to the system before and I didnt get it perfect last time. The colours didnt change only the white balance / greytscale did

This is my result - I have checked through several times for consistencey of the metre

http://imageshack.us/a/img5/3214/y982.jpg

 

[beavis78]

Hi ellisdj thanks for that is there much difference in pq from the 5090 kuro to the vt65 apart from the obvious size difference,and are there any issues with the vt ? as started to get red tint / black problem on my kuro few months ago when watching films in a dark room.... drives me mad!!! |( if calibration wont make major difference may have to start saving

 

[strapped for cash]

This is my result - I have checked through several times for consistencey of the metre

http://imageshack.us/a/img5/3214/y982.jpg

Nice job. How come you calibrated to 2.2?

 

[ellisdj]

Hi ellisdj thanks for that is there much difference in pq from the 5090 kuro to the vt65 apart from the obvious size difference,and are there any issues with the vt ? as started to get red tint / black problem on my kuro few months ago when watching films in a dark room.... drives me mad!!! |( if calibration wont make major difference may have to start saving

Beavis - For starters I dont think a calibration will get rid of the red tint in the blacks - I think its to do with voltages rather than settings.

There is a difference between the VT65 and 5090 - in some ways its big in others its not so.

You can calibrate the 5090 to a reference level and it has probably better blacks in a way, but the VT65 does resolve the image better, so there is more detail and you have more controls so you cna get a better calibration out of it so the image has more pop.

Having the 65" is awesome - there is no 2 ways about it - I love it - I havent spent that much time with it yet - I do plan to now my new audio cables come tomorrow - lots of films to watch both 2 and 3D

Strapped mate I cal'd to 2.2 for every day, I will then cal to 2.4 for serious movie watching - on the other pro mode.

Have a look at the images I have just uploaded - I dont know if you have the Hobbit 2D - but see how your image compares to my photos?

 

[strapped for cash]

Strapped mate I cal'd to 2.2 for every day, I will then cal to 2.4 for serious movie watching - on the other pro mode.

Have a look at the images I have just uploaded - I dont know if you have the Hobbit 2D - but see how your image compares to my photos?

The image looks pretty much identical, as far as I can tell. (Viewing photos online is of course never an exact science.)

I put up a full white slide and all 10 percent grey shade intervals today, to look at screen uniformity. The cyan cast toward the far left is evident, just, but it looked more obvious a couple of days ago. I'm hoping my TV is just having a wobble, though I'll be monitoring things closely.

 

[beavis78]

Thanks again, heard it was a voltage thing on another thread and how to do this/ that, all that stuff is beyond me and dont want to wreck the tv.

Think I will go and have a proper in depth look at the vt

Thankyou for your time

 

[ellisdj]

Hi new to this forum, as you have had your tv calibrated Strapped, and seem to be very happy with the results would you recommend me getting my 5090 kuro done had it for 3 half years, will it make a big difference in pq, would it be worth it ?? or would I be better off in saving up for a newer panasonic ?? not really seen much to make me want to change it up until now.....

Hi Beavis

I just sold a 5090 to get the 65VT65 - let me tell you from experience - it will make a massive difference and is very worth doing!

just to clarify - when I said massive difference I meant calibration will make a massive difference - on both the 5090 and vt etc

 

[ellisdj]

Just calibrated to 2.4 gamma which is 100% the wat forward for dark room movie watching - the image is lush and rich Images to follow on other thread - some very good ones coming - this is insane image quality

Updated - I have just posted the pictures I took after last nights calibration - there are quite a lot - they are well worth having a look - especially if you are thinking of buying the VT65 of any sort or a Marantz UD7007

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Calibration of all four televisions by Stephen Withers tomorrow! :dance: Pioneer PDP-428XD, Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX5090, LG 60PZ950T, and Samsung PS64D8000.