Arguments for and against calibration

[Anonymous]

Infact just to be on the record...plasmas are the best TV on blacks and dynamic contrast.Undisputed.The best sets to watch in a dark room.Let us just

cut to the chase.

I am not blind to the facts......

An Led set can never be a reference TV.

I have been eyeing the samsung F8500. Looks are important to me in a TV, the Vt65 is a bit drab I think and I will end up with a second but a plasma set.Why settle for one when you can have more and 4k. So I really do not genuinely waved the Led flag.I love a great Led review as most are just pants and that is it and talking about it is just that....talking about it.

However...

My passion are with leds as is an impeccable and proven all rounder like an ak47 rifle.

I be perfectly honest.If it was not for gaming and the new sony W905 I would have brought the plasma.I had it down as second choice. I am just annoyed that you have to be so careful with gaming on plasmas. The same feeling oldboy have had in endless diliberation.

 

[strapped for cash]

Infact just to be on the record...plasmas are the best TV on blacks and dynamic contrast.Undisputed.The best sets to watch in a dark room.Let us just

cut to the chase.

I am not blind to the facts......

An Led set can never be a reference TV.

I have been eyeing the samsung F8500. Looks are important to me in a TV, the Vt65 is a bit drab I think and I will end up with a second but a plasma set.Why settle for one when you can have more and 4k. So I really do not genuinely waved the Led flag.I love a great Led review as most are just pants and that is it and talking about it is just that....talking about it.

However...

My passion are with leds as is an impeccable and proven all rounder like an ak47 rifle.

I be perfectly honest.If it was not for gaming and the new sony W905 I would have brought the plasma.I had it down as second choice. I am just annoyed that you have to be so careful with gaming on plasmas. The same feeling oldboy have had in endless diliberation.

Well, I'm not sure about the sentence ending "AK47 rifle," but otherwise that's a far more moderate position and one I wouldn't take issue with. I'm in no doubt that the 905 is the right TV for your needs. (I don't think anyone ever questioned this.) Indeed, the common view on here is that different TV technologies suit different owners' requirements, even if many forum members have their specific preferences.

I'm also pretty confident that the 905 is one of the very best LED TVs ever manufactured; perhaps the best. It produces very accurate images out of the box; and has and virtually non-existent input lag. The 905 is indeed an excellent choice for gaming. Be wary of the F8500 in this regard, though. The TV's excessive input lag has been a deal-breaker for many.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

It's just been confirmed, folks. Steve Withers will be calibrating all four of my televisions on Saturday 27th July. Now I'm really excited!! :dance:

He doesn't know it yet, but I'll take the chance to deafen him with my multiple (and simultaneous, if I so choose) surround-sound systems, heh-heh ...

 

[Deleted member 2457]

It's just been confirmed, folks. Steve Withers will be calibrating all four of my televisions on Saturday 27th July. Now I'm really excited!! :dance:

He doesn't know it yet, but I'll take the chance to deafen him with my multiple (and simultaneous, if I so choose) surround-sound systems, heh-heh ...

Sounds good!

 

[ellisdj]

What Strapped has been getting at - is that there is no way the suggested settings posted will be accurate for your display - I used Bumptious posted settings on my PioneerLX5090 when I first got it.

He is a calibrator from TPS - they are well off what was actually required for my sets calibration - so while they maybe made the pic a bit better - they did not go close to what was achiveable in terms of outright picture quality.

You cannot tweak settings such as white balance or colour without a metre - its a peeing in the wind exercise and these are extremely important - sometimes one knotch change on one setting can make a really big difference either positve or negative - and that there is the problem using someone elses settings

 

[strapped for cash]

sometimes one knotch change on one setting can make a really big difference either positve or negative

Yep.

You'd need to watch a calibration (or do it yourself) to appreciate this. For instance, when adjusting White Balance, raising Blue-Gain one notch at 10IRE threw greyscale on my VT65 out dramatically, across the entire contrast spectrum.

Small adjustments can have a profound effect; and copying advanced settings is generally a bad idea. (AV Forums reviewers and professional calibrators consistently point this out; though as stated above, forum editors eventually bowed to pressure to publish settings online.)

The best you can achieve without using a meter is to make sure contrast, brightness, and sharpness are properly set up using AVS patterns. After that, you're likely doing more harm than good. I'd go so far as to argue that any perceived advantage from copying settings is down to blind luck, or a placebo effect. The former would be very lucky indeed, irrespective of technology (LED, plasma, etc.).

Of course copying settings costs nothing and requires little effort, so I can understand why some would like to believe this is an effective solution.

 

[BenLaw]

Ak47, what a strange analogy. I wonder if assault rifles can shed any light on cable burn in or isolation equipment? A bit like jet aeroplanes failed to on another thread.

 

[strapped for cash]

It's just been confirmed, folks. Steve Withers will be calibrating all four of my televisions on Saturday 27th July. Now I'm really excited!! :dance:

He doesn't know it yet, but I'll take the chance to deafen him with my multiple (and simultaneous, if I so choose) surround-sound systems, heh-heh ...

I think you'll be delighted with the results. Be sure to report back afterwards. That'll be a long working day for Steve.

 

[strapped for cash]

Ak47, what a strange analogy. I wonder if assault rifles can shed any light on cable burn in or isolation equipment? A bit like jet aeroplanes failed to on another thread.

Assault rifles can shed light on any subject if correctly used. Whether the resulting information is even vaguely reliable is another matter altogether.

 

[BenLaw]

A bit like published TV settings then.

 

[strapped for cash]

A bit like published TV settings then.

Yes, though I seem among a minority that think so.

Not coincidentally, most people arguing that copying settings is worthwhile aren't keen on paying for a calibration. I'm not saying everyone should go this route. (A great deal depends on your set up and your TV's calibration controls.) But if you own a reasonably high-end TV or better, you're really not close to getting the best from it through simple user calibration and/or copying settings.

I'm not sure this thread has persuaded anyone that calibration is a good idea; well, maybe Son_of_SJ, but he'd perhaps made his mind up before this thread began.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

I'm not sure this thread has persuaded anyone that calibration is a good idea; well, maybe Son_of_SJ, but he'd perhaps made his mind up before this thread began.

Mmmm, half and half. I had been considering calibration, but I had heard differing accounts of its effectiveness, including one doubtfule tale from a home cinema dealer!. But a few weeks ago I came into a little money, so apart from putting some aside to changeall the loudspeakers in the kitchen to ones from the Eltax Shine range, there was just enough money left to get my screens calibrated, and this thread was certainly the final push. Plus, I'm getting a decent discount on my multiple televlsions; quite a bit less than four times the price for a single calibration. A good number of people here - bigboss, BigBernardBresslaw etc - have at least two televisions, and so, assuming that calibrating the main one yields benefits, getting the other TVs in the house done at the same time becomes relatively cheaper.

 

[mr malarky]

It's just been confirmed, folks. Steve Withers will be calibrating all four of my televisions on Saturday 27th July. Now I'm really excited!! :dance:

He doesn't know it yet, but I'll take the chance to deafen him with my multiple (and simultaneous, if I so choose) surround-sound systems, heh-heh ...

So SoSJ, your the dastardly fiend who pinched my 27th of July spot - my nemesis is revealed!!!

I'd emailed steve last night and he replied tentatively offering 27th July, but then emailed today saying someone else had just booked that date.

Am now booked in for the following Saturday, 3rd August, so will be good to compare notes afterwards on the results.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

It's just been confirmed, folks. Steve Withers will be calibrating all four of my televisions on Saturday 27th July. Now I'm really excited!! :dance:

He doesn't know it yet, but I'll take the chance to deafen him with my multiple (and simultaneous, if I so choose) surround-sound systems, heh-heh ...

So SoSJ, your the dastardly fiend who pinched my 27th of July spot - my nemesis is revealed!!!

I'd emailed steve last night and he replied tentatively offering 27th July, but then emailed today saying someone else had just booked that date.

Am now booked in for the following Saturday, 3rd August, so will be good to compare notes afterwards on the results.

Sorry squire! Honest guv, if I had known that you were also in the running I'd have given you first pick of 27th July! I hope that Steve calibrates not only your pride and joy, the Panasonic 60ZT65, but also your 37" Samsung in the bedroom, yes?

I think that maybe Strapped for Cash should get a percentage from the calibrators for all this work that this thread which he started is sending their way .....

Sincerely yours,

Dastardly Fiend!

 

[strapped for cash]

I think that maybe Strapped for Cash should get a percentage from the calibrators for all this work that this thread which he started is sending their way .....

Ten percent seems fair. If you withold this sum upon paying Steve, I'll send on my details.

 

[mr malarky]

It's just been confirmed, folks. Steve Withers will be calibrating all four of my televisions on Saturday 27th July. Now I'm really excited!! :dance:

He doesn't know it yet, but I'll take the chance to deafen him with my multiple (and simultaneous, if I so choose) surround-sound systems, heh-heh ...

So SoSJ, your the dastardly fiend who pinched my 27th of July spot - my nemesis is revealed!!!

I'd emailed steve last night and he replied tentatively offering 27th July, but then emailed today saying someone else had just booked that date.

Am now booked in for the following Saturday, 3rd August, so will be good to compare notes afterwards on the results.

Sorry squire! Honest guv, if I had known that you were also in the running I'd have given you first pick of 27th July! I hope that Steve calibrates not only your pride and joy, the Panasonic 60ZT65, but also your 37" Samsung in the bedroom, yes?

I think that maybe Strapped for Cash should get a percentage from the calibrators for all this work that this thread which he started is sending their way .....

Sincerely yours,

Dastardly Fiend!

I did think about the Samsung, but its only used for an hour a day on average (at most) so couldn't really justify the cost. Am looking forward to watching the whole process though, really want to get a better idea of exactly what's involved. Steve apparently checks out your various video sources as well to make sure they're all aligned with the display settings, so sounds like a pretty complete service. Am also keen to get his thoughts on audio calibration as well, as have never really gone past running the 'auto set-up' function with the supplied microphone and then trialling the various presets (THX, Pure Direct, extended stereo etc) so would be good to get an idea how much improvement can be had from delving into the advanced eq functions.

 

[mr malarky]

I think that maybe Strapped for Cash should get a percentage from the calibrators for all this work that this thread which he started is sending their way .....

Ten percent seems fair. If you withold this sum upon paying Steve, I'll send on my details.

We couldn't possibly ask you to break forum anonymity on our account strapped, it just wouldn't be right!

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Steve apparently checks out your various video sources as well to make sure they're all aligned with the display settings, so sounds like a pretty complete service. Am also keen to get his thoughts on audio calibration as well, as have never really gone past running the 'auto set-up' function with the supplied microphone and then trialling the various presets (THX, Pure Direct, extended stereo etc) so would be good to get an idea how much improvement can be had from delving into the advanced eq functions.

Yeah, I would have liked Steve's thoughts on audio as well, but doing four television calibrations is a pretty full gig, and he'll have no time (or energy!) left to comment on my surround-sound systems, pity.

 

[ellisdj]

Check out the new thread I have started on calibrated 3D - oh my god!

 

[Son_of_SJ]

I don't think you'll exactly find an argument against calibration, as it's clearly a positive. However, IME I have kind of been with BB on this one. I've only ever owned one proper flat screen TV (more recently a cheapish and cheerful LCD in the bedroom also). I bought the best one available, my only mistake being going in one year too early. Both my gf and I were blown away by how amazing it was. Such a feeling lasted many years, and I still think that with a decent blu ray. I hadn't come across calibration when I first bought it. When I first heard about calibration, I would have at the back of my mind (i) the prospect of of my gf saying 'why on earth are you paying £x00 for some guy to play with the setting when it already looks bloody marvellous and you could play with the settings yourself anyway', and (ii) the fact that I would probably agree with those sentiments.

But I say all of this from a position of ignorance. To my knowledge, I've never seen a professionally calibrated TV, certainly never side by side with the same TV but non-calibrated. Only then, I suppose, would I be able to make a rational assessment of performance increase v price v risk of waste if the TV develops a fault.

Obviously I will not be getting my Kuro calibrated so long into its life. Other financial commitments mean a new TV is a distant speck on the horizon, so it looks as though this will be only a theoretical conundrum for me :?

Hello BenLaw,

Yes, anyone can play with the settings but without a meter and industry standard software I wouldn't be able to judge whether what I was doing was good or bad. As Strapped for Cash and Ellisdj say

sometimes one knotch change on one setting can make a really big difference either positve or negative

Yep.

You'd need to watch a calibration (or do it yourself) to appreciate this. For instance, when adjusting White Balance, raising Blue-Gain one notch at 10IRE threw greyscale on my VT65 out dramatically, across the entire contrast spectrum.

Small adjustments can have a profound effect; and copying advanced settings is generally a bad idea. (AV Forums reviewers and professional calibrators consistently point this out; though as stated above, forum editors eventually bowed to pressure to publish settings online.)

The best you can achieve without using a meter is to make sure contrast, brightness, and sharpness are properly set up using AVS patterns. After that, you're likely doing more harm than good.

so making advanced adjustments judging by eye alone is really not something that an amateur like me could do with any confidence.

By the way, my Pioneer LX5090 is now almost four years old. I had intended to get only my Samsung and LG calibrated, but was offered a good deal to get all four televisions done so the LX5090 will be calibrated as well! It will be interesting to see if calibration has a bigger or lesser effect on it than on the newer televisions.

 

[BenLaw]

Just to clarify SoSJ, I didn't mean to suggest that there was anything inherently wrong with having calibrated a TV that's a few years old. It was simply in my particular circumstances where I'm considering an upgrade in the mid term future, I wouldn't get long enough benefit from a calibration. But if you're planning on keeping your kuro for a good few years yet then it makes perfect sense

 

[strapped for cash]

if you're planning on keeping your kuro for a good few years yet then it makes perfect sense

Especially if it's costing little extra.

I saw a calibrated 6090 at the Leicester event. It looked great. If I owned one I'd be perfectly happy to keep it until it developed a terminal fault.

I'm guessing Son_of_SJ's Pioneer shows no sign of the dreaded red tint.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

if you're planning on keeping your kuro for a good few years yet then it makes perfect sense

Especially if it's costing little extra.

I saw a calibrated 6090 at the Leicester event. It looked great. If I owned one I'd be perfectly happy to keep it until it developed a terminal fault.

I'm guessing Son_of_SJ's Pioneer shows no sign of the dreaded red tint.

Well, I actually don't watch the LX5090 much at all, it's in the second bedroom and is not on as much as the 428XD in my bedroom. Haven't noticed anything wrong (yet!) with either machine ....... And yes, I certainly intend keeping the LX5090 until it falls apart. The 428XD I might be persuaded to part with one day, but it wouldn't be worth much and that time would come only after two more television purchases (the Panasonic 65VT65 and whatever succeeds it, one or two generations later!

 

[Deleted member 2457]

How good the out of box settings are. With Panasonic I know I like them but if I bought a Samsung plasma I would get it calibrated, because I could not get an image I was happy with! And I would want to know I was achieving the best image from it.

 

[mr malarky]

Picking up one of the concerns some people had about paying for calibration - specifically that it would be wasted money if their set ever developed a fault and had to be replaced - I checked with Steve (the guy who's doing mine and SoSJ's in a few weeks) and he confirmed he always gives owners a full report detailing all their settings, so if the TV ever has to be repaired or replaced they can recreate the settings.

Worth knowing for anyone still deliberating about whether its worth the money.