Are they tearing the heart out of music?

[John Duncan]

Tear Drop:There are more products today than ever before, but in many ways there is less choice than ever.

Maybe so, but if that meant that all amps and cd players were to produce what were on the disc perfectly, surely that'd be a good thing, since ostensibly that's what we seek from 'hi fi'?

 

[Tear Drop]

JohnDuncan:Tear Drop:it is a vicious circle (or downward spiral), whereby hifi begins to mirror the sound of modern production values

I'm not sure I agree - I think hifi (I'm talking more about electrical components, as opposed to speakers) has become more and more faithful to the original source over the last 20 years, at prices which were unthinkable then - the issue with music production is that so much of it is now mastered to sound good on an iTunes download or the radio, and sounds bl--dy awful on a high-fidelity system.

But now many hifi companies are bringing out their own ipod docks, even 'high-end' companies like Krell are jumping on this bandwagon. This is part of the cycle I'm talking about. How long before amps and speakers are tailored to sound better with an ipod dock than a good turntable or CD player?

 

[Tear Drop]

JohnDuncan:Tear Drop:There are more products today than ever before, but in many ways there is less choice than ever.

Maybe so, but if that meant that all amps and cd players were to produce what were on the disc perfectly, surely that'd be a good thing, since ostensibly that's what we seek from 'hi fi'?

A good thing indeed - hifi utopia in fact! I won't hold my breath though...

 

[drummerman]

Tear Drop:There are more products today than ever before, but in many ways there is less choice than ever. If you look at any market, products tend to become homogenised over time, and the only significant variations in the majority of products come and go with each passing trend. Quality and variety then have to be found within niches, or niches within niches. Hifi is no different, even if it is a 'specialist' market.

Now you've lost me completely. What is homogenised and where dont you have choice?

 

[Tear Drop]

What do I mean by homogenised? Essentially at any given price point a lot of hifi sounds pretty similar, doing similar things well, with similar flaws etc. The only elements which then distinguish one product from another for the consumer are purely superficial - reputation, styling, blue neon lights, classy looking remote and so on, none of which ultimately has anything to do with the quality of the product. This also gives the illusion of choice, when in fact there is very little.

 

[John Duncan]

Which to me means we have cd players and amps sorted (generalising). Speakers are where the biggest differences lie.

 

[Tear Drop]

I'm in a weird mood today - I feel like I'm rambling. Feel free to stop reading at any time

 

[Tear Drop]

JohnDuncan:Which to me means we have cd players and amps sorted (generalising). Speakers are where the biggest differences lie.

If I was also to generalise, I would lean in this direction too.

 

[matthewpiano]

There is plenty of musical sounding kit around from the likes of NAD, Primare, Rotel, Rega, Creek, Arcam etc. Even at the bottom end, a set-up like the Teac Reference 3000MkIII with a pair of Tannoy F1 Custom speakers can get your foot well and truly tapping. Not all products from these manufacturers are as good as others and system matching needs great care, but that has always been the case.
One issue that I do agree with is that of production values which have declined greatly of late. A well produced recording such as the LSO Live disc of Dvorak's 9th can sound incredible, but there are too many poorly produced and engineered discs out there.

 

[drummerman]

Tear Drop:What do I mean by homogenised? Essentially at any given price point a lot of hifi sounds pretty similar, doing similar things well, with similar flaws etc. The only elements which then distinguish one product from another for the consumer are purely superficial - reputation, styling, blue neon lights, classy looking remote and so on, none of which ultimately has anything to do with the quality of the product. This also gives the illusion of choice, when in fact there is very little.

??

A Brio does not sound the same as a Rotel, just to give one example. Higher up, a prima luna does not sound the same as a creek etc. etc.

There's a wide choice of different sounding products at any budget.

 

[John Duncan]

Yes, but I think the differences are less than they used to be. When I was demoing equipment in the mid-eighties, it was bloody obvious what sounded better, and you just bought it (usually the current what hifi five-star product, surprisingly enough). Now it's more subtle.

 

[drummerman]

JohnDuncan:Yes, but I think the differences are less than they used to be. When I was demoing equipment in the mid-eighties, it was bloody obvious what sounded better, and you just bought it (usually the current what hifi five-star product, surprisingly enough). Now it's more subtle.

There are no doubt more (qualitatively speaking) good sounding, value for money products available than a decade or two ago. That comes with scale (and place) of manufacturing, competition and technology. Would'nt call todays products homogenised though. Its just more difficult to pick the best sounding of a bunch of good sounding products. Whats wrong with that?

 

[John Duncan]

Nothing, I'm not the one complaining - it means I can buy the ones with the best knobs, and know they'll sound good

 

[fatboyslimfast]

Typical. Concentrating on the knobs whilst forgetting about the fascia...

 

[drummerman]

You and your knobs ...

 

[John Duncan]

Feeding you the lines, DM.........

 

[plastic penguin]

JohnDuncan:This is nonsense, of course, and has nothing to do with reproduction, but production. It's the way producers make music sound these days that's at fault, not equipment's ability to reproduce it. We've never had it so good.

I think you've all made valid points. Clearly I don't have the expertise in hi-fi like some of the regulars. I am pretty sure that there are many brands that maintain their integrity when it comes to stereo repro.

If we go back to a thread called "Bright or warm" from a couple of weeks ago, I remember JD referring to a Creek amp as (I'm paraphrasing here) being fanatically neutral and that the Primare, by contrast, although not as accurate as the Creek, was more pleasant than the Creek and therefore a more enjoyable listen (it was something along those lines).

That in a nutshell was my original point. The few I have tested, with the exception of the Naim, are too precise, too perfect in comparison; this results in something that sounds (dare I say it). . . . Ok, I will: Not awful. Uninteresting.

Phew! I think I go and have a rub down with the Sporting Life. . . . . .

 

[Thaiman]

JohnDuncan:Yes, but I think the differences are less than they used to be. When I was demoing equipment in the mid-eighties, it was bloody obvious what sounded better, and you just bought it (usually the current what hifi five-star product, surprisingly enough). Now it's more subtle.

True true JD. The different is subtle BUT only with another similar price equipments. IE if anyone reckon Cyrus 6S sound similar to AudioNet ART G2 then either ears cleaning is in progress or try another hobby that not involve listening. Having said that I truly believe you can't buy bad HiFi eqipments now a day, the budget range is full with value for money products.