KEF LS50 Wireless - First Impressions

[Gazzip]

This is a copy and paste of my post in the Going Active thread. Apologies therefore if you have already read it...

Okay so the LS50W’s are now in my second system...hmmm...they actually are my second system. I am using a Teac PD-301DAB as a CD and DAB source in to the built in LS50W’s onboard DAC via optical. I am also using the LS50’s network player. That’s it!

First the bad. Nothing you won’t have read before. The network player is shite. I mean properly shite. Doesn’t do gapless play which means it breaks up/distorts the start of all songs, even when played sequentially from the same album. It is also prone to losing the speakers occasionally. This might all be fixed by a firmware update, which I haven’t done yet and herein lies the secondary shite, the firmware update cannot be done via the app. You need a pc or a mac to do it! Please somebody correct me if this is wrong and I am missing something, but how 2005 is that! Complaints about the unresponsive remote also seem fair, as does the frustration of having no forward facing display - what source am I selecting? What level is the volume at before I press play and kill the cat? Very frustrating and not great product design.

Now the good. They sound absolutely amazing. When I powered them up for the first time I must have been standing right in their sweet spot because no sound came out of the speakers at all, it emminated from a large and crystal clear soundstage between/behind/to the side of them. A proper hairs on the back of the neck moment. Bass is surprisingly deep for their diminutive size, although a tiny bit “small-box-rear-porty”, but not enough to annoy and only really noticeable because I am coming straight from closed box EB2’s in this room. Mids beggar belief given that there is no dedicated midrange driver, and vocals render realistically without any raspy harshness and are crystal clear and perfectly integrated. Highs are sweet without any siblance or tendency towards listening fatigue. I am seriously impressed!

I am sitting them on a pair of Auralex Acoustic bases on a small cabinet about 10cm from the rear wall and the onboard DSP/EQ seems to have dealt with that very well, albeit that there is no measurement facility so the tool is inherently a little blunt. TBH I feel a little guilty about treating them so badly having heard them in my room. They deserve good stands and proper placement, but nice to know that they can uncompromise themselves to a certain degree by using the DSP/EQ.

Setup was very, very easy. 5 minutes and I had music. 7 minutes and I had them dialled in, connected to my server and streaming my music. Impressive stuff. Also it needs to be said that their build quality is immaculate and of the highest order. I would prefer a grille, or perhaps a simple black driver (I have blue drivers and gloss black cabinets), but that’s just down to taste.

10/10 for the physical product - we’ll done kef! 2/10 for the app and firmware, which they MUST have known was not up to muster on release, although as above this is fixable. IMHO these are an absolute fecking bargain at £2K when you consider what you are actually getting (speakers, pre-amp with analogue/digital inputs, mono amps, DAC, streamer). Buy some!

 

[Andrewjvt]

Sounds good on the sound quality front but for me wish they could be straight monitor's

 

[Gazzip]

You mean just powered monitors with no DAC, streamer etc.?

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Thanks for the review on these speakers and hope you are enjoying them. Not bad for a second system! I liked them at the indulgence London show and sat there for half an hour listening to them. I’m sure the issue with tracks can be sorted by firmware. What do kef say on that?

 

[Andrewjvt]

You mean just powered monitors with no DAC, streamer etc.?

Ja that's what I mean but that's not what they are about.
I get that.
You not the only person today to be impressed with them either. I need to give these a spin soon when I get chance with the little one taking all my spare time.
I've only put on music(other than my headphones at work) once since August

 

[davidf]

I'd say fairly accurate first impressions Gazzip. The app does need work (there's not many great apps out there), and as you say, this will be sorted over time. I had a chat with the rep recently, and there's so much going on with the app in the way of additions that they're taking things one step at a time. It'll come though. I still think many people are going to use them with an outboard streamer of some kind, so the only aspect of the app used (once set up) will be volume and input.

When I reviewed them, I did so with them sitting on an IKEA unit, and they sounded great, as you'll read from my comments. A month ago I got the dedicated LS50 Wireless stand from Custom Design (that anyone who visited the hi-fi show in Birmingham last month would've seen, as I used them there), and I'm stunned at the difference that's made. I shouldn't be, because I know how important the stands can be, but they sound so much better now for it. A couple of days ago I was sat there listening to them after a customer audition and really couldn't get any work done, they sounded jaw dropping.

I'll be taking them along to the Harrogate Show too (along with a few other speakers), and using them with a Convert Technologies Nucleus digital streamer.

 

[Gazzip]

I had a chat with the rep recently, and there's so much going on with the app in the way of additions that they're taking things one step at a time.

That’s disappointing to hear and probably an own goal for Kef. They may want to pull their finger out by fixing the app basics before concentrating on expanding it’s capabilities. Sim Audio made the same mistake with their original MiND App/controller a few years ago and that did them a hell of a lot of damage IIRC.

At the end of the day they should not have started selling the LS50W as an active with streaming capacity if it can’t cut the mustard. Streaming should have come online as one of those “expanded capabilities” when it was actually fit-for-purpose. I for one have purchased the LS50W’s precisely because they allegedly had an in-built streamer.

 

[ellisdj]

How many times have you listened to them out of curiosity??

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

I must be the only person who has been underwhelmed by the kefs....although I was looking for them to replace my full system and not as a second option.

In hindsight the superuniti and pmc's are a far more streamlined system with a bit more flexibility thrown in at a cost...all be it.

 

[Gazzip]

How many times have you listened to them out of curiosity??

Me? All afternoon and evening yesterday and then intermittently today, but always on in the background today because I am on my own in kid hell this weekend.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I am on my own in kid hell this weekend.

Hi Gazzip

I spilt my tea *biggrin*

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[ellisdj]

How many times have you listened to them out of curiosity??

Me? All afternoon and evening yesterday and then intermittently today, but always on in the background today because I am on my own in kid hell this weekend.

Sorry mate that comment was aimed at Mark smith

 

[seemorebtts]

I really need to hear these.i think seven oaks have them ;-)

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Hi Ellis I only managed the one demo unfortunately....dealers are few and far between in my neck of the woods so I had to travel from West coast to east coast of Scotland.

I'm not slating the kefs..they just didn't do it for me on the day and in my mind they didn't sound just quite as good as what I already had or what the hype on various sites were suggesting..but I didn't get them home for a demo which I know is a big issue.so ended up with the superuniti from a Glasgow dealership instead...I already had the pmc's.but for me and my listening environment I think I made the correct choice.

 

[Gazzip]

Another evening with the LS50W’s and I’m beginning to revise my opinion slightly on the SQ. Don’t get me wrong they are great for the money, given what you are getting inside these two, beautifully made boxes, but the mids/vocals aren’t actually that great at all for my tastes. There is a “locked in” flatness to those frequencies which is becoming more and more noticeable and which leaves me uninvolved and little bored with the sound. Lacking air is how I can best describe it. These are intended to replace my EB Acoustics EB2’s which have bags of “air”, so I’m not sure that the LS50W’s are going to produce a sound I can live with. ATEOTD I can get a great deal of amp and DAC for £2K to feed my current loudspeakers. Sadly back to the drawing board for me then. Good job I have a sympathetic dealer!

 

[ellisdj]

Have you run dirac through them? Also surely run in period for speakers and electronics to factor in or are these demo models

 

[CnoEvil]

Another evening with the LS50W’s and I’m beginning to revise my opinion slightly on the SQ. Don’t get me wrong they are great for the money, given what you are getting inside these two, beautifully made boxes, but the mids/vocals aren’t actually that great at all for my tastes. There is a “locked in” flatness to those frequencies which is becoming more and more noticeable and which leaves me uninvolved and little bored with the sound. Lacking air is how I can best describe it. These are intended to replace my EB Acoustics EB2’s which have bags of “air”, so I’m not sure that the LS50W’s are going to produce a sound I can live with. ATEOTD I can get a great deal of amp and DAC for £2K to feed my current loudspeakers. Sadly back to the drawing board for me then. Good job I have a sympathetic dealer!

IME I wouldn't make a final judgement until:

a] You hear them on suitable stands that have been part filled.

b] They have been given a chance to run in.

It's all too easy to start over analyzing everything and second guessing yourself, while going through buyers remorse.

 

[Gazzip]

Thanks CNO and EllisDJ, but science and my ears are pretty clear that solid state run/burn in is a myth. It is dealer/manufacturer speak for “listen long enough and you will get used to what you don’t like about the sound”. *stop* Speakers don’t need more than 20 hours or so to get up to speed, or at least that is what the pro-audio market subscribe to. The kefs have had longer than that.

I think the issue I am experiencing is related to Kef’s choice of amplification. They’ve mixed Class D (LF) with Class A/B (everything else) in order to reduce bulk/heat/cost, and I think what I am hearing at low volume levels is the perennial issue with Class D at low listening levels. A collapse in Class D amplification performance at low volume could certainly effect the soundstage and flatten the image across the crossover frequencies. The whole thing snaps back in to place when I turn it up so I suspect I have identified the issue.

These are to be used predominantly at low levels so this bird ain’t gonna fly for me...

 

[CnoEvil]

Thanks CNO and EllisDJ, but science and my ears are pretty clear that solid state run/burn in is a myth. It is dealer/manufacturer speak for “listen long enough and you will get used to what you don’t like about the sound”. *stop* Speakers don’t need more than 20 hours or so to get up to speed, or at least that is what the pro-audio market subscribe to. The kefs have had longer than that.

It was really from a speaker "loosening out" angle that I was coming from....and there is no doubt that the LS50s come alive at louder volumes (I was unaware that Class D had that particular weakness).

I have yet to hear the Active version, so can't comment directly.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Ahhhhh.now I'm not the only one who came away a little underwhelmed.

Gazzip a new unit atom or used superuniti come in bang on the money if you're looking to make your second system streamlined and the box count down.....I'm pretty sure a naim superuniti will make those eb acoustics sing.....it really has shown my little 21's the way.lol.

 

[Gazzip]

Thanks CNO and EllisDJ, but science and my ears are pretty clear that solid state run/burn in is a myth. It is dealer/manufacturer speak for “listen long enough and you will get used to what you don’t like about the sound”. *stop* Speakers don’t need more than 20 hours or so to get up to speed, or at least that is what the pro-audio market subscribe to. The kefs have had longer than that.

It was really from a speaker "loosening out" angle that I was coming from....and there is no doubt that the LS50s come alive at louder volumes (I was unaware that Class D had that particular weakness).

I have yet to hear the Active version, so can't comment directly.

I know that this was a big issue with early Devialet models (the Premier I think) and I was never blown away by my Devialet 800 at low levels to be completely honest. I remember reading at the time it was a problem related to Class D, but I don’t pretend to understand what the issue was. Higher distortion at low level output perhaps? Either way I would imagine using different amp topology within the same loudspeaker may cause problems. After all their published FR will be measured at a specific volume vs distance, not at a range of volumes...

 

[Pedro2]

interesting thoughts about class D amplification. I’m about to swap ATCs driven by a Nord (Class D) for active AE1 driven by onboard class A/B. Although imho, the passive amp and speakers were as close to the limits of ‘as good as it gets’ for the money, I did find that it needed some welly to sound good/superb. At lower volumes, the sound could be somewhat flat and uninvolving. Question is; is this more a feature of the amp or the speakers? Or a combination of both? May have a better take on this in the coming weeks.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Pedro2

Kii Audio’s Three active monitors also use Bruno Putzeys NCore’s and so far i’ve found the Three’s to be balanced sounding even at low to moderate levels *smile*

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Andrewjvt]

Advert alert
Time to make coffee or go to the toilets

 

[ChrisIRL]

Another evening with the LS50W’s and I’m beginning to revise my opinion slightly on the SQ. Don’t get me wrong they are great for the money, given what you are getting inside these two, beautifully made boxes, but the mids/vocals aren’t actually that great at all for my tastes. There is a “locked in” flatness to those frequencies which is becoming more and more noticeable and which leaves me uninvolved and little bored with the sound. Lacking air is how I can best describe it. These are intended to replace my EB Acoustics EB2’s which have bags of “air”, so I’m not sure that the LS50W’s are going to produce a sound I can live with. ATEOTD I can get a great deal of amp and DAC for £2K to feed my current loudspeakers. Sadly back to the drawing board for me then. Good job I have a sympathetic dealer!

There's a few things in set up that I think are critical to addressing your concerns.

1. Regardless of where you locate them, stands, shelf, room size etc I think the bass needs to be reduced via DSP to near its lowest setting. At the very least set it to "small room".

2. Treble is a bit flat at standard setting. + 0.5 to 1.0 db increase, while subtle, combined with lowering bass helps greatly with air and sparkle.

3. The phase correction defaults to on. It can be difficult to get used to what this does to the presentation coming from traditional speakers. Setting it to off makes sound more regular.

4. Many think you can only use DSP in wifi mode. Not the case. The trick is in wifi mode to open the DSP settings within the app. Leave this screen open and use the remote to change source input. DSP can now be adjusted real time for other inputs except Bluetooth. This will allow you to hear if the above recommendations suit your tastes and help issues.