Arcam A19 up to ATC SCM12?

[jas0_0]

Hi all,

I've an opportunity to buy some ATC SCM12s but just wondering if my Arcam A19 is up to the task - I've heard they can sound flat with amps lacking power. The Arcam is 50 watts, but am I right in saying all watts are not equal?

They'd be in a small room near a rear wall, and I'd mainly feed them jazz, classical, house/techno and folk

Also, some time in the future I plan to trade in my irDac and A19 for an Unitiqute and NAP100, and was wondering whether this would also be a good/better match for the SCM12s.

Any experiences/thoughts? Thanks in advance.

 

[lpv]

Hi all,

I've an opportunity to buy some ATC SCM12s but just wondering if my Arcam A19 is up to the task - I've heard they can sound flat with amps lacking power. The Arcam is 50 watts, but am I right in saying all watts are not equal?

They'd be in a small room near a rear wall, and I'd mainly feed them jazz, classical, house/techno and folk

Also, some time in the future I plan to trade in my irDac and A19 for an Unitiqute and NAP100, and was wondering whether this would also be a good/better match for the SCM12s.

Any experiences/thoughts? Thanks in advance.

you need 100 watts @ 8 Ohms for any ATC.. you listen high dynamic classical? 200 watts then as you need more headroom than compressed pop whatever.. however what you don't need is an amp that double the power @ 4 Ohms.. own ATC amps are great for their loudspeakers.. tried and tested.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi jas0_0

I am busy at the moment however I will add my thoughts later on today.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[jas0_0]

Thanks Rick - look forward to it

 

[jas0_0]

Thanks Ipv - in that case I might look elsewhere... Don't want to buy speakers that immediately make me want to spend £1000s on a hefty amp!

Though I had been told the current ATC SCM11s were a good option with the Arcam. Are the 12s quite different?

Thanks again - J

 

[Andrewjvt]

Thanks Ipv - in that case I might look elsewhere... Don't want to buy speakers that immediately make me want to spend £1000s on a hefty amp!

Though I had been told the current ATC SCM11s were a good option with the Arcam. Are the 12s quite different?

Thanks again - J

HI

IMO ATC are worth building a system around though

 

[Al ears]

If you're going to be upgrading system in the future what is the harm in running them now with your Arcam? Unless you are going to be playing at rock concert levels it should be fine.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Thanks Rick - look forward to it

Hi jas0_0

You're welcome.

I've found the A19 to be perfectly capable with curved SCM19 passive transducers and therefore as long as you're not after constant disco like listening levels then you should find A19 has also got sufficient quantity and quality of power for SCM12 passive transducers. Yes, the A19 can be improved on and Arcam's own A29, A39 and A49 with all things equal will extract even more from SCM12's and also from most or any other loudspeaker. Fwiw, we've also successfully used a £270 50w/ch NAD C325BEE over nine years with various ATC passive monitors (including SCM40's) and have clients using Arcam Solo Mini systems @ 25w/ch with SCM40's without issue.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[MUSICRAFT]

If you're going to be upgrading system in the future what is the harm in running them now with your Arcam? Unless you are going to be playing at rock concert levels it should be fine.

Hi Al ears

+1

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[jas0_0]

Thanks everyone, this is encouraging.

My concern is that I don't want to buy speakers now that are just waiting for an upgrade (which might be a while off), when others would actually sound better on the end of the A19 because they're easier to drive (e.g. PMC DB1i or Focal Aria 906)

Also, my main reason for upgrade now is that i feel my current speakers (Mission 773e) are a bit laid back, and I worry that a demanding set of speakers on the end of a lower powered amp will also lack the drive I'm after...

What do you think?

 

[jas0_0]

Also not after rock concert capabilities, just speakers that sparkle at low to mid levels, and aren't afraid to kick up their skirts occasionally

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

If you are planning low to mid volume listening you should also check out the pmc twenty 21's that are pretty good at that and from what I've read lately re atc's scm's...they do like a bit of volume cranking to make them sparkle into life,but I have no experience of them just from what I've read on threads on this very site.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Also not after rock concert capabilities, just speakers that sparkle at low to mid levels, and aren't afraid to kick up their skirts occasionally

You really need to demo them with your amp. If buying blind you should have no problem shifting them if you dont like them.

 

[Alberich]

Hi Jaso_o

I was in a similar spot to yourself not long ago and from my experience i think the A19 will struggle driving the 12s.

I had the not too dissimilar SCM11 S2 being driven by the A19 and they sounded very flat indeed.
My original plan was to add on a P38 because the 19 on its own was particularly impotent.
The 11s sounded boxed in particularly with classical.

Classical would be my main genre of listening and I'd agree with IPV that the A19 50wpc is insufficient for large dynamic peaks.

I've heard a few insensitive speakers on the end of the 19 and it was quite successful but it just couldn't handle the 11s.
The 19 also ran very hot and developed a substantial hmm.
My room is also small and my listening level would be moderate.

Apologies for the horror story and I don't wish to spook you but that's my first hand experience with the A19 and SCM 11 combo.
As your aware this hifi lark is so subjective that others, and maybe even yourself would have been perfectly happy with what i was hearing but I can only pass on my own opinion.

 

[Al ears]

If you're going to be upgrading system in the future what is the harm in running them now with your Arcam? Unless you are going to be playing at rock concert levels it should be fine.

Hi Al ears

+1

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Cheers Rick.

Much is made on here of ATCs needing massive amplification but I have not found it so. The fact the OP is talking about upgrading this later makes it a bit of a 'll brainer' if he can get those speakers now for a decent price.

Yes the A19 can be bettered but it will suffice in the meantime.

 

[plastic penguin]

The main issue for the OP is whether he likes the combo. As always, one man's rump steak is another's Pedigree Chum. Top breeders recommend it... *biggrin*

 

[Al ears]

The main issue for the OP is whether he likes the combo. As always, one man's rump steak is another's Pedigree Chum. Top breeders recommend it... *biggrin*

Whoof! Whoof!

The OP has already indicated he intends to upgrade amp in the future. This present combo is possibly, then, irrelevant. It all boils down to whether the speakers work well in his listening room, irrespective of what they are powered by. Think ahead is what it's all about. Grab now whatever you can get at a really good price and modify the rest of your system around it.

Best thing I ever did was to get the speakers that I always wanted, that really suited my room, and worked back from there. It's a long-term game and you're never going to get it right first time without the niggling thought you are immediately going to need to upgrade something else.

 

[Alberich]

If you're going to be upgrading system in the future what is the harm in running them now with your Arcam? Unless you are going to be playing at rock concert levels it should be fine.

Hi Al ears

+1

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Cheers Rick.

Much is made on here of ATCs needing massive amplification but I have not found it so. The fact the OP is talking about upgrading this later makes it a bit of a 'll brainer' if he can get those speakers now for a decent price. 

Yes the A19 can be bettered but it will suffice in the meantime.

The OP clearly states he wishes to know how the A19 will cope driving the 12s, albeit temporarily.

Jaso_o

I would be a bit careful regarding the advice from All Ears.
I initially had the same query as yourself an All Ears gave me contradictory and frankly fickle advice.

All of the posters here have experience with ATC no doubt but I can guarantee I'm one of the few who have direct experience trying to drive the SCM11s with an A19.

ATC Clearly state recommended amplifier power 75w to 300w for the 11s and the 12s for good reason.

I would question the advice given to you by people like All Ears who have no direct experience with the combo that concerns you.
Just know my comments regarding your post are based on direct experience with the A19.
So filter through as best you can the conflicting advice given here.

 

[Al ears]

If you're going to be upgrading system in the future what is the harm in running them now with your Arcam? Unless you are going to be playing at rock concert levels it should be fine.

Hi Al ears

+1

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Cheers Rick.

Much is made on here of ATCs needing massive amplification but I have not found it so. The fact the OP is talking about upgrading this later makes it a bit of a 'll brainer' if he can get those speakers now for a decent price.

Yes the A19 can be bettered but it will suffice in the meantime.

The OP clearly states he wishes to know how the A19 will cope driving the 12s, albeit temporarily.

Jaso_o

I would be a bit careful regarding the advice from All Ears. I initially had the same query as yourself an All Ears gave me contradictory and frankly fickle advice.

All of the posters here have experience with ATC no doubt but I can guarantee I'm one of the few who have direct experience trying to drive the SCM11s with an A19.

ATC Clearly state recommended amplifier power 75w to 300w for the 11s and the 12s for good reason.

I would question the advice given to you by people like All Ears who have no direct experience with the combo that concerns you. Just know my comments regarding your post are based on direct experience with the A19. So filter through as best you can the conflicting advice given here.

Please retract your comments about my as they are false.

They are correct in that I personally do not rate that particular Arcam but that's just me. It will suffice though.

Are you also implying Rick has no experience with these either?

 

[jas0_0]

Ok thanks everyone, I think I'm coming down on the side of the A19 not really being man enough... and limited funds for amp upgrades might be a while off.

However... I wondered if a Cyrus 8 XPD or 8 DAC could be the answer. If I trade in my Arcam A19 and irDAC, I'd probably roughly break even on a used Cyrus (plus I'd lose a box - always good).

With 70 wpc, would a Cyrus be a better match? What Hi Fi recommend ATC SCM40s as partners in their review of one of these amps... Are the SCM12s a similar beast?

 

[Alberich]

If you're going to be upgrading system in the future what is the harm in running them now with your Arcam? Unless you are going to be playing at rock concert levels it should be fine.

Hi Al ears

+1

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Cheers Rick.

Much is made on here of ATCs needing massive amplification but I have not found it so. The fact the OP is talking about upgrading this later makes it a bit of a 'll brainer' if he can get those speakers now for a decent price. 

Yes the A19 can be bettered but it will suffice in the meantime.

The OP clearly states he wishes to know how the A19 will cope driving the 12s, albeit temporarily.

Jaso_o

I would be a bit careful regarding the advice from All Ears. I initially had the same query as yourself an All Ears gave me contradictory and frankly fickle advice.

All of the posters here have experience with ATC no doubt but I can guarantee I'm one of the few who have direct experience trying to drive the SCM11s with an A19.

ATC Clearly state recommended amplifier power 75w to 300w for the 11s and the 12s for good reason.

I would question the advice given to you by people like All Ears who have no direct experience with the combo that concerns you. Just know my comments regarding your post are based on direct experience with the A19. So filter through as best you can the conflicting advice given here.

Please retract your comments about my as they are false.

They are correct in that I personally do not rate that particular Arcam but that's just me. It will suffice though.

Are you also implying Rick has no experience with these either?

What makes you think the 19 will suffice?
Have you any direct experience with an ATC A19 combo?

Your repeating of the 'rock concert levels' and 'constant disco levels' mantra suggests to me that you have no direct experience with the combo in question and your opinions are based on hearsay.

Quite a misleading thing when the OP is looking for serious advice.

I know its an exhausted debate but ATCs do need power. First hand experience dictates and the Arcam is particularly impotent with them.
Your well aware that ATC increased the recommended minimum power for the 11s from 50w to 75w because of returned speakers with burnt out voice coils.

Regarding your question about Rick. I'm not implying he has no experience with the combo in question, but it does baffle me how he can recommend the A19 ATC combo.
It's quite possible that in Rick's busy Environment he may not have noticed how stressed the A19 was driving the 11s and 19s. Not stating a truism but it's possible.

It's quite misleading all these comments suggesting 'it will be fine'
It won't be fine. My A19 nearly pooped itself.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Why dont you consider a 2nd hand nad c370.

They are cheap and full of power for the atcs and it wont break your bank.
You may like the tonal balance also

 

[MUSICRAFT]

you need 100 watts @ 8 Ohms for any ATC.. you listen high dynamic classical? 200 watts then as you need more headroom than compressed pop whatever.. however what you don't need is an amp that double the power @ 4 Ohms..

hanging around on confused . com again *biggrin*

 

[MUSICRAFT]

If you're going to be upgrading system in the future what is the harm in running them now with your Arcam? Unless you are going to be playing at rock concert levels it should be fine.

Hi Al ears

+1

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Cheers Rick.

Much is made on here of ATCs needing massive amplification but I have not found it so. The fact the OP is talking about upgrading this later makes it a bit of a 'll brainer' if he can get those speakers now for a decent price.

Yes the A19 can be bettered but it will suffice in the meantime.

Hi Al ears

You're welcome and +1

Anyway after you *biggrin*

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Alberich]

If you're going to be upgrading system in the future what is the harm in running them now with your Arcam? Unless you are going to be playing at rock concert levels it should be fine.

Hi Al ears

+1

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Cheers Rick.

Much is made on here of ATCs needing massive amplification but I have not found it so. The fact the OP is talking about upgrading this later makes it a bit of a 'll brainer' if he can get those speakers now for a decent price. 

Yes the A19 can be bettered but it will suffice in the meantime.

Hi Al ears

You're welcome and +1

Anyway after you *biggrin*

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Rick please rethink your recommendations regarding driving the 11s and 19s with the A19.

I urge you to retry the A19 ATC combo with demanding material. Something with large orchestral dynamics that will show you the inadequacies of the pairing.

From first hand experience it bewilders me that you recommend the A19 for driving ATCs.
I'm utterly dumbfounded when I hear you say that you have clients who drive the SCM40s with the Solo Mini.

Maybe these clients don't know clipping when they hear it.
At this rate in the not too distant future we're going to have a second hand market full of ATCs will damaged voice coils.

Honestly - SCM 40s driven by a Solo Mini?
C'om, in all good conscience you should be discouraging that type of madness.