ATC SCM11 vs SCM12 with arcam amps or active monitors

[Tomyum]

Hi,

Having listened to a friends adam a7x monitors I have decided it might be time for a system upgrade, I need this kind of detail in my life!

Current system is spotify or lossless flac files, Laptop, Htr microstreamer, a pair of arcam alpha 10's driving B&W 685 and an active B&W asw750 sub.

I have the ports stuffed with socks and the bass is probably on the light side but sounds fantastic with great extension and control. Better than the adams, but thats about where the advantages end. The adams have much more detail and the treble although possibly slightly louder is silkly, liquidy smooth.

I would like to know if there is much difference between the SCM11's and SCM12's. I have heard the tweeters are new and improved on the 11's but the mid/bass driver on the 12's is the same as the 19's?

Secondhand 11's are 1000 and 12's 750ish.

What are your thoughts?

I am open to system change suggestions also. I have heard that the alpha 10's are very capable amps and likewise the microstreamer dac. which is what lead me to believe the speakers might be the first step. That or sell up and buy some adams...

Thank you.

 

[seemorebtts]

Monitor's are good if you sit close to them so we need to know how big is your listing room.the alpha 10 is a good amp.a little long in the tooth but if you like it keep it.the ATC scm11 are amazing speakers (my favourite)you have plenty of power to run them so could be a good choice.you could buy them and make a choice to upgrade you're amp.my choice would be
ATC scm11
Arcam a29(if you like the Arcam sound)
Or
rega elex r
Not sure on the ATC scm12 as never heard them.hope this helps

 

[Tomyum]

Monitor's are good if you sit close to them so we need to know how big is your listing room.the alpha 10 is a good amp.a little long in the tooth but if you like it keep it.the ATC scm11 are amazing speakers (my favourite)you have plenty of power to run them so could be a good choice.you could buy them and make a choice to upgrade you're amp.my choice would be ATC scm11 Arcam a29(if you like the Arcam sound) Or rega elex r Not sure on the ATC scm12 as never heard them.hope this helps

Thank you, I am sat about a 1/3rd distance of room pretty close to my speakers atm much like a near field setup and the room is about 3.5m x 4.5m but this is fairly temporary as I intend to move soon but no idea what the next listening room will be like yet! But it will be a similar near/mid field set up I would have thought and a larger room. I do like the arcam sound but that's coming from a couple of award winning old nad amps, sony and a yamaha all around the £200-300 mark and the improvement was vast. It seems meaty, controlled and pretty neutral? I think I like neutral or transparent hi-fi the most, detail and accurate. It would be nice to try more Hi-fi manufactures to compare in house sound but I rarely find the time or opportunity to. I did test the adams a7x against genelecs 8040a and prefered the adams openness and detail. What are the rega sonic characters like compared to the arcams?

 

[seemorebtts]

Monitor's are good if you sit close to them so we need to know how big is your listing room.the alpha 10 is a good amp.a little long in the tooth but if you like it keep it.the ATC scm11 are amazing speakers (my favourite)you have plenty of power to run them so could be a good choice.you could buy them and make a choice to upgrade you're amp.my choice would be ATC scm11 Arcam a29(if you like the Arcam sound) Or rega elex r Not sure on the ATC scm12 as never heard them.hope this helps

Thank you, I am sat about a 1/3rd distance of room pretty close to my speakers atm much like a near field setup and the room is about 3.5m x 4.5m but this is fairly temporary as I intend to move soon but no idea what the next listening room will be like yet! But it will be a similar near/mid field set up I would have thought and a larger room. I do like the arcam sound but that's coming from a couple of award winning old nad amps, sony and a yamaha all around the £200-300 mark and the improvement was vast. It seems meaty, controlled and pretty neutral? I think I like neutral or transparent hi-fi the most, detail and accurate. It would be nice to try more Hi-fi manufactures to compare in house sound but I rarely find the time or opportunity to. I did test the adams a7x against genelecs 8040a and prefered the adams openness and detail. What are the rega sonic characters like compared to the arcams?

wow this is a much better description of what you want.A man after my own heart.now we need to find out about a budget.the atc's will cater for your needs.just need to find an amp.if you spend say £1000 then you have a great choice of amps with most of what you crave and alot better than the alpha 10.The new arcams have good dynamics with a open airy sound which never fails to please but not as detailed or accurate as some.is there anyway of going to your local dealer and having a listen to some.
The rega has great timeing with good detail and dynamics.the rega is much more my style.i have the primare i22 amp which also has great timeing and detail with a very clean presentation.if you like the active speakers then my be the answer is staring you in the face

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

I think I feel a avi dm10 recommendation comming.lol.

 

[Frank Harvey]

With regards to seemorebtts' recommendation for £1,000 amplifiers, the Primare I22 sprang to mind, then noticed he went on to recommend it! I've been listening to the I22 quite a lot over the past few weeks on a number of different speakers. I think that and the Rega Elex-R are the best two sounding amps around that price point at the moment, and will both do a great job driving the ATC speakers.

 

[Romulus]

I not heard the ATC SCM 11 nor ATC SCM 12, but from literature it seems to me the ATC SCM 11 will be more foregiving of badly recorded material, while the ATC SCM 12 are 'PRO' speakers and from their description it appears this is a serious near field monitor speaker with recommended amps of 75 watts to 300 watts. My belief is that the SCM 12 will be best heard from a powerful amp and most probably more to the high end scale of audio. Personally if I was to use speakers just to listen to music and other media I would avoid the SCM12 as I think this is for proffesional studio use (I may be wrong!) which would highlight the difference between similar DACS but massacre a bad recording!

You seek a transparent, nutruel and detailed sound I second the recommendation of the AVI DM10 (Active System). I have auditioned this active system connected to my Cocktail Audio X10 (ripper/streamer/amp/internet radio), the first thing that hit me was the clarity of sound with superb dynamics. For me the sound included the sonics what you are seeking together with a engaging rhythmic beat and I was hearing what seemed to me a clear timbre of instruments. The price is £1,500 the only slight hiccup is getting to audition them. But if you go on their forum you will find a thread specifically to auditions given voluntthis arilly by users on the forum from different parts of England. There is a review on the AVI DM10 in HiFI Plus. In a nutshell this system hits the high end sound for minimum costs (advantages of an active system).

 

[Tomyum]

Thank you all very much, some great info here!

I do like the idea of being able to upgrade my hifi bit by bit and that's what I have been doing for years! the ATC scm11's sound ideal and at a later date the amplifier with the rega and primare amps seeming like the ones to go for. I will have to give them a good listen, the ablity to buy them second hand is good for my bank balance to

The AVI DM10 speakers sound an almost ideal package for my setup of using computer based music complete with preamp and dac installed, the only two things putting me off going down the active monitor route really. Glad these were mentioned. At £1500 for the pair or even cheaper if I can find some secondhand ADM9 they represent pretty good value?

I don't live too far from Gloucester so if I could organise a listening session at ATC and AVI that would be a fun day out! I will ask if thats something they do, perhaps a nearby dealer.

 

[drummerman]

I am sure your amplifiers are just fine.

The problem is the B&W's. Most cheaper ones which I've heard are ... garbage or perhaps compromised to be kinder.

Interestingly enough, I just read a review and bench report of the 685 and it doesn't make for good reading.

As the reviewer said, they (b&w) are of course capable of making decent speakers but choose instead to make the cheaper ones in a 'show room' appealing fashion/voicing. Its when Mickey Mouse starts to sound like Barry White you know something is not quite hunky dory.

It doesn't do anything for sound quality and you hear that now.

Still, they make a fair ole thump ... ... and are easy to sell if ebay s/h prices are anything to go by.

Its what most newbies put somewhere on their wish list.

 

[Romulus]

Thank you all very much, some great info here!

I do like the idea of being able to upgrade my hifi bit by bit and that's what I have been doing for years! the ATC scm11's sound ideal and at a later date the amplifier with the rega and primare amps seeming like the ones to go for. I will have to give them a good listen, the ablity to buy them second hand is good for my bank balance to

The AVI DM10 speakers sound an almost ideal package for my setup of using computer based music complete with preamp and dac installed, the only two things putting me off going down the active monitor route really. Glad these were mentioned. At £1500 for the pair or even cheaper if I can find some secondhand ADM9 they represent pretty good value?

I don't live too far from Gloucester so if I could organise a listening session at ATC and AVI that would be a fun day out! I will ask if thats something they do, perhaps a nearby dealer.

Please inform us of your experience of your auditions.

 

[seemorebtts]

I am sure your amplifiers are just fine.

The problem is the B&W's. Most cheaper ones which I've heard are ... garbage or perhaps compromised to be kinder.

Interestingly enough, I just read a review and bench report of the 685 and it doesn't make for good reading.

As the reviewer said, they (b&w) are of course capable of making decent speakers but choose instead to make the cheaper ones in a 'show room' appealing fashion/voicing. Its when Mickey Mouse starts to sound like Barry White you know something is not quite hunky dory.

It doesn't do anything for sound quality and you hear that now.

Still, they make a fair ole thump ... ... and are easy to sell if ebay s/h prices are anything to go by.

Its what most newbies put somewhere on their wish list.

IV hated the cheaper bowers.having owned alot of the 600 series I never liked them and always quickly sold them.

 

[Tomyum]

Ok interesting! Sounds like the B&W 685's are the weakess link as suspected. I bought them thinking they were well reviewed with no auditioning of them or others to compare and they fact they weren't too expensive 2nd hand!

I am now getting a feel of what I like to hear from a hifi so auditioning speakers or systems makes absolute sense, especially with the extra spending involved! I will try and get some auditions organised. I would pressume it makes sense to take my amps for speaker auditions and then I can compare to rega or primare also.

On a sound for sound comparison could you compare and pick your choice between say a hifi setup of a rega or primare amp with atc scm11 speakers which ultimately I woud aim for or the AVI DM10 active speakers. Bearing mind I will be using HRT microstreamer for the Hifi setup and I would have my subwoofer for both setups so the lows wouldn't be such an issue.

 

[seemorebtts]

Ok interesting!  Sounds like the B&W 685's are the weakess link as suspected.  I bought them thinking they were well reviewed with no auditioning of them or others to compare and they fact they weren't too expensive 2nd hand!  

I am now getting a feel of what I like to hear from a hifi so auditioning speakers or systems makes absolute sense, especially with the extra spending involved!  I will try and get some auditions organised.  I would pressume it makes sense to take my amps for speaker auditions and then I can compare to rega or primare also.

On a sound for sound comparison could you compare and pick your choice between say a hifi setup of a rega or primare amp with atc scm11 speakers which ultimately I woud aim for or the AVI DM10 active speakers.  Bearing mind I will be using HRT microstreamer for the Hifi setup and I would have my subwoofer for both setups so the lows wouldn't be such an issue.

yes you got it spot on.best way to do it.hope your local dealer has these amps and speakers if he or she does you must have a great dealer.not many do.good luck

 

[drummerman]

I've only heard the original AVI DM9. They are ok but you may find it difficult to find anywhere to listen to them.

Owners are usually quite forthcoming so if you head over to HDD you may find one living close.

Just dont get too drawn in with the Anti-Foo, anti-legacy system ... well ... pretty much anti everything there

PS. Steve_1979 owns a pair of 10's I believe. I'm sure he can give you glowing report ;-)

 

[thewinelake.]

I've not heard the DM10, but my ADM9rs are pretty damn good - and are half the price. I would avoid the DM5's personally as they lack some useful functionality and are more towards headphones in style. I'd love to hear the Kef LS50 Wireless some time, but they're pricey.

 

[luckylion100]

To the OP there's myself and the Major on this forum that have both gone over to the Dark Side fairly recently after owning and enjoying passive systems. I had the Roksan K2/power amp combo coupled with PMC Twenty 23's, prior to that PMC GB1i's and Q Acoustic Concept 20's and think my new setup kicks the old well into touch. I really rated my PMC's and if being honest think my amplification was letting the side down so I swapped it. Yes it was a complete shot in the dark (having never auditioned) and primarily taken after following the at times posionous bake off fallout between the ATC SCM11's, EV Sentry III's and the AVI DM10's with sub.. And I've not been brainwashed or joined a cult. ;-)

An argument against going active that is often thrown out there is 'What about if something goes wrong within the speaker, your system is gone?' The way I see it you could argue what happens if a mid range, say £1500 amp packs up... you get a new one.

For the outlay it's an amazing setup and you'd struggle to find anyone that's purchased a set that argues against that. I've never heard the 9's as Drummerman previously has but apparently the DM10's knock the red spots off them.

Good luck in reaching a decision.

Edit; I should add the ATC SCM11's were paired with the rather costly Hegel H360 amp. The EV's I can't recall but believe it was of the vintage variety.

 

[lindsayt]

luckylion100, as far as I was concerned, the only poisononous fall-out from Septembers ATC vs AVI vs EV (listed in order of ascending overall sound quality AND descending price) came from the AVI camp from people who weren't at the bake-off and who have never heard EV Sentry III's, but still expressed very strong opinions on how they sounded at the bake-off!

This included a 5 page thread on the AVI forum of the most laugahbly ill informed drivel that was later cut down to 2 posts! Where Ashley James acted like an extremely bad loser.

 

[avole]

But you'd need to upgrade the amplifier for Neat. Just acquired some Motives, they're truly amazing, and size alone means they'll comfortably outperform the AVIs, which are in the end slightly passé lifestyle speakers.

If you want to go active, go wireless as well and have a listen to the Dynaudio range, of which the Xeos 2s are amazing value for money since they are bluetooth enabled and have DSP to you can have them on the desk, placed against the wall or further out into the room. They're also stocked by quite a few dealers.

 

[Andrewjvt]

To the OP there's myself and the Major on this forum that have both gone over to the Dark Side fairly recently after owning and enjoying passive systems.  I had the Roksan K2/power amp combo coupled with PMC Twenty 23's, prior to that PMC GB1i's and Q Acoustic Concept 20's and think my new setup  kicks the old well into touch. I really rated my PMC's and if being honest think my amplification was letting the side down so I swapped it. Yes it was a complete shot in the dark (having never auditioned)  and primarily taken after following the at times posionous bake off fallout between the ATC SCM11's, EV Sentry III's and the AVI DM10's with sub.. And I've not been brainwashed or joined a cult. ;-)

An argument against going active that is often thrown out there is 'What about if something goes wrong within the speaker, your system is gone?' The way I see it you could argue what happens if a mid range, say £1500 amp packs up... you get a new one.

For the outlay it's an amazing setup and you'd struggle to find anyone that's purchased a set that argues against that. I've never heard the 9's as Drummerman previously has but apparently the DM10's knock the red spots off them.

Good luck in reaching a decision.

 

Edit; I should add the ATC SCM11's were paired with the rather costly Hegel H360 amp. The EV's I can't recall but believe it was of the vintage variety.

 

No poison at the bake off
Just some heavy lifting at the start and finish.

 

[luckylion100]

and anyone else that chooses to find fault and put words into my mouth...

I didn't suggest the 'fallout' came from yourself or any of the other participants at the bakeoff. It was fallout on here and on another forum. But as per you choose to take issue, your problem not mine.

My opinion is that at times the reaction was posionous and I quite agree it was from people that didn't attend and perhaps had never heard any of the speakers involved. Like so many other things here, perceived levels of posion are a subjective matter.

I was simply offering some input to the OP as he mentioned the speakers I currently own and the bake off feedback played a big part in my decision. Hence I thought it was relevant so brought it up.

 

[avole]

You'd already bought the AVIs, n'est-ce pas?

P.S I read your reactions, and they were not pleasant, but that's between you and LindsayT and is no reason for a thread hijack.

 

[luckylion100]

having to defend almost every other post on here at times because people seemingly take offence at nothing. Remember it's only hifi... good morning everyone! ;-)

 

[Andrewjvt]

But you'd need to upgrade the amplifier for Neat. Just acquired some Motives, they're truly amazing, and size alone means they'll comfortably outperform the AVIs, which are in the end slightly passé lifestyle speakers.

If you want to go active, go wireless as well and have a listen to the Dynaudio range, of which the Xeos 2s are amazing value for money since they are bluetooth enabled and have DSP to you can have them on the desk, placed against the wall or further out into the room. They're also stocked by quite a few dealers.

I like the look of the dynaudio pro bm serieries
They look solid and excellent value for money

 

[jonathanRD]

Hi Tomyum, if you are indeed close to Gloucestershire it does make a lot of sense for you to seek out an audition of the AVI DM10's. Last year I had a very deliberate plan to audition a wide range of integrated amplifiers and then compare against the DM10's. Only a very good deal and too many other committments on my time stopped me carrying out my plan. I'm happy with what I have now, but I still wonder what they (DM10's) would sound like in my room.

FWIW during a shop demo I compared the Arcam A29 with the Rega Elex-r, and found as others have stated, the Rega Elex-r slightly more dynamic.

Just demo as much as you can!

 

[luckylion100]

I wondered when you'd appear. I offered to the OP what I considered to be some relevant personal feedback in keeping with the progression of the thread. The OP mentioned DM10's and others have since taken up that particular baton.

I stand corrected though, yes I purchased my AVI's just prior to this bake off back in September.

As I recall there was my own earlier thread that also took a bitter twist when I sought advice re a choice between Genelec, AVI and Event speakers. I believe you partook in that as well.

And Lindsay mentioned my reference to what I believe was the 'posionous' state of the feedback, I just felt the need to clarify and reply to him. If that's OK? And based upon his appraisal of the bakeoff feedbake thread I think my description and choosen adjective was spot on.

I'll say no more.

Edit: Re the bake off being of relevance in my purchasing decision. It was the inital two way bake off between IPV's DM10's and Andrews pairing of the Hegel 360 and ATC SCM11's. This was before LindsayT got involved in a three way. So yes the bakeoff was a big factor, hence mentioning.