Anyone tried tube amp with PMC

[Infiniteloop]

Valve Amps have a certain sound characteristic that is unmistakeable.

If you've ever heard a good Valve Amp in a decent system, you'd recognise it.

 

[Electro]

I'll make a prediction:

The OP will hook up the new Electrocompaniet Amp and be rightfully pleased with it. It will sound different to what he has now.

However, it is another SS Amp and the whole point of this thread is that the OP has an itch to scratch.

That itch will still be there.

The only way to satisfy that itch is with a full Valve Amp. - No compromises.

Not necessarily , *smile* I don't know if you have ever heard an Electrocompaniet amp but if you have you will know they have a similar sort of midrange clarity and presence to a top class valve amp but it is achieved in a completely different way without adding the very pleasing third harmonic distorions that valve amps are famed for .

Even some die hard valve amp fans grudgingly admit that they admire the "Electro sound " as the best or nearest a transistor amp can sound to valves in the all important midrange but with all the best parts of a top transistor amp .

One reviewer likened the Nemo monoblocks to a cross between a top single ended 300 B valve amp and Arnold Schwarzenegger. *smile*

 

[CnoEvil]

Valve Amps have a certain sound characteristic that is unmistakeable.

If you've ever heard a good Valve Amp in a decent system, you'd recognise it.

I'm with you...and that's from someone who has heard a variety of Electro Amps, including an ECI-5 and the EC 4.8 Pre / 180 Monos

 

[Infiniteloop]

Yes I've heard Electrocompaniet and they sound beautiful. But there's still, IMO, nothing to compare to a true Valve Amp.

I almost bought one once, but bought a Devialet instead, which manages to pull off a similar trick. However, I still couldn't bring myself to part with my S8 Valve Amp.

The thing is, different valves sound different, even different makes of the same valve type can sound different. In fact, tube rolling is a further joy of Valve Amp ownership.

Yes, certain SS Amps can sound 'valvey', but it's not really the same thing.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Valve Amps have a certain sound characteristic that is unmistakeable.

If you've ever heard a good Valve Amp in a decent system, you'd recognise it.

I'm with you...and that's from someone who has heard a variety of Electro Amps, including an ECI-5 and the EC 4.8 Pre / 180 Monos

As you know, 'Hearing is believing' Cno....

 

[Electro]

Thanks for the suggestions on the electrocompaniet. Decision done. Will ping my friend to get me the amp straight away. I could always move it on ( with a slight profit ) if I don't like it. But iam sure I will like it ...thanks a ton for your swift advise

Good Man...that was quick.

Let us know what you think.

Already forwarded the dealers details to my friend. He will contact them tomorrow morning to work out the sale.

But my friend looks a little doubtful if he can lug the 20 kgs back, with a infact son in tow. So keeping my fingers crossed for now

Good choice , I look forward to the review . *biggrin*

 

[insider9]

Been catching up with this thread. I think Electrocompaniet is a sound choice. Would love one myself

 

[newlash09]

Is it New, Ex-dem or pre-owned? Warrenty?

If it's not new, your friend would need to hear it.

Apparently only run in the dealers showroom for 200 hrs. And supposed to be in immaculate condition. But my friend is not at all into hifi. So he won't know what to look for. Apparently the dealer has a very reliable rating online . The price has dropped to USD 2995/- as of today. So all looks good, except my friends ability to lug it back. He asked me for an alternative lighter suggestion, just in case he couldn't swing the deal. I asked him for a McIntosh ma252. Presently available for USD 3500 in the USA. And is lighter and smaller at 14 kgs. So will depend on what my friend can accommodate. I think he will lean towards the McIntosh. But either way iam okay I think. Couldn't ask him for more.

The McIntosh doesn't officially have any reviews yet. But user experiences online are very positive. Apparently the first lot has flown off the shelves , and dealers are waiting for restocking. So I guess it should be sounding good. And may be just may be it has some tube magic that i set out looking for

 

[newlash09]

Been catching up with this thread. I think Electrocompaniet is a sound choice. Would love one myself

It could be the electrocompaniet or the McIntosh ma252

 

[newlash09]

I'll make a prediction:

The OP will hook up the new Electrocompaniet Amp and be rightfully pleased with it. It will sound different to what he has now.

However, it is another SS Amp and the whole point of this thread is that the OP has an itch to scratch.

That itch will still be there.

The only way to satisfy that itch is with a full Valve Amp. - No compromises.

You could actually be right

I won't discount that. But the reason to go for the electrocompaniet is 2 fold. If I really like it and find it to be superior to the parasound, which I expect it will be . I will sell the parasound and almost make up for the purchase, judging by the astronomical prices in India.

So not much of a loss, and I can continue looking for a tube amp again.

Scenario 2 is, if I go for a tube amp, like that mcinstosh option that I have. Then I will probably retain the Parasound for the bass in a bi amped setup. So the tube amp will actually entail expenditure, and the electrocompaniet probably not much

 

[Electro]

Is it New, Ex-dem or pre-owned? Warrenty?

If it's not new, your friend would need to hear it.

Apparently only run in the dealers showroom for 200 hrs. And supposed to be in immaculate condition. But my friend is not at all into hifi. So he won't know what to look for. Apparently the dealer has a very reliable rating online . The price has dropped to USD 2995/- as of today. So all looks good, except my friends ability to lug it back. He asked me for an alternative lighter suggestion, just in case he couldn't swing the deal. I asked him for a McIntosh ma252. Presently available for USD 3500 in the USA. And is lighter and smaller at 14 kgs. So will depend on what my friend can accommodate. I think he will lean towards the McIntosh. But either way iam okay I think. Couldn't ask him for more.

The McIntosh doesn't officially have any reviews yet. But user experiences online are very positive. Apparently the first lot has flown off the shelves , and dealers are waiting for restocking. So I guess it should be sounding good. And may be just may be it has some tube magic that i set out looking for

The Electro is much heavier for a very good reason. *smile*

I just noticed that it's the MA 252 integrated amp that you are interested in not the MC 252 power amp you originally posted, this makes a big difference as the MA252 is a much lower powered hybrid amp not a full valve amp.

I would definitely go for the ECI5 mk2 over the MA252, the McIintosh looks like a very complicated design with plenty to go wrong unlike the older bullet proof McIintosh models .

I have no doubt that it will sound good but it might not give you what you want.

Go for the Electro first and if you don't like it ( very doubtful ) move it on for no loss and try the McIntosh.

 

[newlash09]

Is it New, Ex-dem or pre-owned? Warrenty?

If it's not new, your friend would need to hear it.

Apparently only run in the dealers showroom for 200 hrs. And supposed to be in immaculate condition. But my friend is not at all into hifi. So he won't know what to look for. Apparently the dealer has a very reliable rating online . The price has dropped to USD 2995/- as of today. So all looks good, except my friends ability to lug it back. He asked me for an alternative lighter suggestion, just in case he couldn't swing the deal. I asked him for a McIntosh ma252. Presently available for USD 3500 in the USA. And is lighter and smaller at 14 kgs. So will depend on what my friend can accommodate. I think he will lean towards the McIntosh. But either way iam okay I think. Couldn't ask him for more.

The McIntosh doesn't officially have any reviews yet. But user experiences online are very positive. Apparently the first lot has flown off the shelves , and dealers are waiting for restocking. So I guess it should be sounding good. And may be just may be it has some tube magic that i set out looking for

The Electro is much heavier for a very good reason.  *smile*

I just noticed that it's the MA 252 integrated amp that you are interested in not the MC 252 power amp you originally posted, this makes a big difference as the MA252 is a much lower powered hybrid amp not a full valve amp.

I would definitely go for the ECI5 mk2 over the MA252, the McIintosh looks like a very complicated design with plenty to go wrong unlike the older bullet proof McIintosh models .

I have no doubt that it will sound good but it might not give you what you want.

Go for the Electro first and if you don't like it ( very doubtful )  move it on for no loss and try the McIntosh.

 

For the advise. The electrocompaniet is still my first preference.

Convincing a non hifi oriented friend to agree to lug back a hifi component has been difficult enough

Iam still happy that he has agreed to bring something back. And he is also paying for it and will also bear the hassles with custom levy in India for me. And I will be reimbursing him once back in India. So my hands are tied in gratitude, and I can also wish that he does bring the electrocompaniet back.

However, I didn't tell him yet, that the McIntosh is out of stock with most dealers. And it is not available online. So in a way iam nudging him to the electrocompaniet in a subtle way

 

[Infiniteloop]

I'll make a prediction:

The OP will hook up the new Electrocompaniet Amp and be rightfully pleased with it. It will sound different to what he has now.

However, it is another SS Amp and the whole point of this thread is that the OP has an itch to scratch.

That itch will still be there.

The only way to satisfy that itch is with a full Valve Amp. - No compromises.

Scenario 2 is, if I go for a tube amp, like that mcinstosh option that I have. Then I will probably retain the Parasound for the bass in a bi amped setup. So the tube amp will actually entail expenditure, and the electrocompaniet probably not much

This makes no sense. Do you think Valve Amps don’t do bass, or something?

 

[newlash09]

I'll make a prediction:

The OP will hook up the new Electrocompaniet Amp and be rightfully pleased with it. It will sound different to what he has now.

However, it is another SS Amp and the whole point of this thread is that the OP has an itch to scratch.

That itch will still be there.

The only way to satisfy that itch is with a full Valve Amp. - No compromises.

 

Scenario 2 is, if I go for a tube amp, like that mcinstosh option that I have. Then I will probably retain the Parasound for the bass in a bi amped setup. So the tube amp will actually entail expenditure, and the electrocompaniet probably not much

This makes no sense. Do you think Valve Amps don’t do bass, or something?

But from reading alone, what I gather is that Valve amps have rounded bass, just like their mid range. But I like taught bass. Hence the thought of a SS amp for bass. If iam wrong, I would be delighted.

But with the McIntosh's 100 watts. Iam sure adding the parasound for bass would give me more dynamic headroom

 

[CnoEvil]

But from reading alone, what I gather is that Valve amps have rounded bass, just like their mid range. But I like taught bass. Hence the thought of a SS amp for bass. If iam wrong, I would be delighted.

But with the McIntosh's 100 watts. Iam sure adding the parasound for bass would give me more dynamic headroom

The McIntosh is a hybrid, so the bass is from a SS Power Amp, with the Valves in the Pre.

 

[paulkebab]

I can't see you having any problems with bass on what you are considering. Yes I 'only' have a hybrid but my speakers are transmission line and a similar size to your PMC's, although IPL recommended the stiffer mag cone as opposed to the Kevlar cone to avoid too much bass in my room. Dance music presents no issues, in fact you'd swear I was hiding a sub somewhere. Prodigy, Chemical Brothers, Ozric Tentacles, Steve Hillage etc are all presented in a fashion that's hard to describe aside of it sounding like a nightclub at relevant levels, and bass is accurate and fast at any level. I'm not sure if any of this will help, but good luck in your search.

 

[newlash09]

I can't see you having any problems with bass on what you are considering. Yes I 'only' have a hybrid but my speakers are transmission line and a similar size to your PMC's, although IPL recommended the stiffer mag cone as opposed to the Kevlar cone to avoid too much bass in my room. Dance music presents no issues, in fact you'd swear I was hiding a sub somewhere. Prodigy, Chemical Brothers, Ozric Tentacles, Steve Hillage etc are all presented in a fashion that's hard to describe aside of it sounding like a nightclub at relevant levels, and bass is accurate and fast at any level. I'm not sure if any of this will help, but good luck in your search.

I see that you have a hybrid Vincent with a tube pre + SS amp. Do you think the sound of the tube pre is still retained after the power amp stage, or does the entire system sound like a SS sound all through. Thanks

 

[newlash09]

But from reading alone, what I gather is that Valve amps have rounded bass, just like their mid range. But I like taught bass. Hence the thought of a SS amp for bass. If iam wrong, I would be delighted.

But with the McIntosh's 100 watts. Iam sure adding the parasound for bass would give me more dynamic headroom

The McIntosh is a hybrid, so the bass is from a SS Power Amp, with the Valves in the Pre.

I was, and am still under the impression that the SS Poweramp is amplifying the tube sound of the tubed pre amp. And I was given to understand that the tube bloom generally leads to more rounded bass. Hence the thought that despite the SS Poweramp stage, the bass control might not be as taught as I like it to be. Hence my idea was to use the chord 2qute to feed the line level inputs of the McIntosh. Which will inturn run the mid range and tweeters only of the speakers. This way I will be restricting the tubes to what they do best.

Am I right in my thinking...

 

[paulkebab]

newlash, and it's something I've pondered over and posted on the forum about. I really honestly cannot tell at what point the amp switches out of class A into full SS. At low volume it sounds very natural, turn up the volume and it presents the same sort of sound, just louder.. and louder! My only issue is that you have to let valve amps warm up, the Vinny usually takes the best part of an hour. Don't get me wrong it still sounds good from cold, but there are distinct misgivings in the treble area on my system. A 'quick blast' doesn't put a smile on my face to be honest, that's the only minus point I have with mine.

 

[CnoEvil]

I was, and am still under the impression that the SS Poweramp is amplifying the tube sound of the tubed pre amp. And I was given to understand that the tube bloom generally leads to more rounded bass. Hence the thought that despite the SS Poweramp stage, the bass control might not be as taught as I like it to be. Hence my idea was to use the chord 2qute to feed the line level inputs of the McIntosh. Which will inturn run the mid range and tweeters only of the speakers. This way I will be restricting the tubes to what they do best.

Am I right in my thinking...

As I understand it, Bass Control comes from the Samping Factor - which is much higher in a SS Power Amp.

 

[newlash09]

I was, and am still under the impression that the SS Poweramp is amplifying the tube sound of the tubed pre amp. And I was given to understand that the tube bloom generally leads to more rounded bass. Hence the thought that despite the SS Poweramp stage, the bass control might not be as taught as I like it to be. Hence my idea was to use the chord 2qute to feed the line level inputs of the McIntosh. Which will inturn run the mid range and tweeters only of the speakers. This way I will be restricting the tubes to what they do best.

Am I right in my thinking...

As I understand it, Bass Control comes from the Samping Factor - which is much higher in a SS Power Amp.

For your very prompt reply as always

 

[CnoEvil]

For your very prompt reply as always

Sorry, that should have read Damping Factor.

 

[paulkebab]

too Cno and only very expensive valve amps can go very loud, which is why I went hybrid and no regrets.. well maybe one or two.

 

[newlash09]

newlash, and it's something I've pondered over and posted on the forum about. I really honestly cannot tell at what point the amp switches out of class A into full SS. At low volume it sounds very natural, turn up the volume and it presents the same sort of sound, just louder.. and louder! My only issue is that you have to let valve amps warm up, the Vinny usually takes the best part of an hour. Don't get me wrong it still sounds good from cold, but there are distinct misgivings in the treble area on my system. A 'quick blast' doesn't put a smile on my face to be honest, that's the only minus point I have with mine.

For replying. From my reading on various sites, I have understood that some designers voice their tube preamp and amps to sound more tubey than others. So basically two different amps having the same tubes can sound different. Since you mentioned that the treble improves after about an hour of heating / operation. I think there is the tube sound making its way to the speakers through the SS amp section. Though the extent of the tube sound is dependent on the amount of tubey goodness that the Vincent designer wanted in the system. So if you really want to experiment and see if the above is right, then you can try changing the tubes in your pre amp section. Some tubes are supposed to be more tubey than the others. So you can try other tubes and see if you have a difference. And as I mentioned at the start, all my above ramblings are from reading on other tube forums and sites alone, and none is from my own limited experience

 

[newlash09]

For your very prompt reply as always

Sorry, that should have read Damping Factor.

I figured that out...my spell check on my phone is wide off the mark sometimes