I have to add, it works bloody well with the Naim n-Sats (no surprise there). Stick a decent sub with it and you'd have a fun system, albeit a touch pricey.
I think Drummerman has made the most important point and that is price.
We were making separates and doing very well out of them, although we could see, as everyone has, some drop in overall business. CD players stopped selling a couple of years ago now and we discontinued amplifiers in January '08 to pursue a different path that in our view, better reflected the requirements of a modern home media system. Music alone is not enough now. Apple has shown that.
We were never as expensive as Naim, but we did look very carefully at the market in a number of different countries and it quickly became clear that what used to be called Mid Fi has caught and in some instances passed the so called hi end and often for a fraction of the cost.
Recent reviews in various magazines have shown that there is very little sonic difference between competently executed DACs and the same applies to amplifiers from the Pacific Rim that tend not to be imported into the UK because the market is so small. However and it's a big however, it's an open secret that Cambridge Audio is a Giant killer and it's no surprise with an Engineer like Doug Self behind it's designs.
Things have changed, technological advances flow thick and fast and IMO it has left Naim with a more Morgan than Bentley image, which in itself is no bad thing, from what I understand business is thriving for them and their owners love them.
We were making separates and doing very well out of them, although we could see, as everyone has, some drop in overall business. CD players stopped selling a couple of years ago now and we discontinued amplifiers in January '08 to pursue a different path that in our view, better reflected the requirements of a modern home media system. Music alone is not enough now. Apple has shown that.
We were never as expensive as Naim, but we did look very carefully at the market in a number of different countries and it quickly became clear that what used to be called Mid Fi has caught and in some instances passed the so called hi end and often for a fraction of the cost.
Recent reviews in various magazines have shown that there is very little sonic difference between competently executed DACs and the same applies to amplifiers from the Pacific Rim that tend not to be imported into the UK because the market is so small. However and it's a big however, it's an open secret that Cambridge Audio is a Giant killer and it's no surprise with an Engineer like Doug Self behind it's designs.
Things have changed, technological advances flow thick and fast and IMO it has left Naim with a more Morgan than Bentley image, which in itself is no bad thing, from what I understand business is thriving for them and their owners love them.
chebby
Well-known member
igglebert:albeit a touch pricey.
Naim gear is too expensive, as has always been their way. They used to assume their gear was so good people would outwardly buy new speaker cable and interconnects just so they wouldn't damage the preciousness!
Expense aside, Naim has a sound many won't part with and many can't adapt to. So be it.ÿ
Naim gear is too expensive, as has always been their way. They used to assume their gear was so good people would outwardly buy new speaker cable and interconnects just so they wouldn't damage the preciousness!
Expense aside, Naim has a sound many won't part with and many can't adapt to. So be it.ÿ
chebby
Well-known member
Octopo:True, though much of this thread is a spamfest.
This seems to be the way with all Naim discussions.
This seems to be the way with all Naim discussions.
Ashley James:Octopo:True, though much of this thread is a spamfest.This seems to be the way with all Naim discussions.
Not forgetting Sony LCDs or hot headed Onkyos mind.ÿ
Not forgetting Sony LCDs or hot headed Onkyos mind.ÿ
Clare Newsome:Hughes123:
Really Mr.E, you do doubt me quite often...
but then you do have previous - ie 'being economical with the truth' in your prize-winning Hi-fi World letter. And don't think us editors don't talk
Clare, as I previously stated, I very often have my mate's LP12 because we both share records and share the turntable because I put £250 towards the £750 it cost. I don't doubt you editors talk, then again, I don't doubt you talk to manafacturers very often about reviews
...
Anyway, I must say Drummerman that I would like to agree with you - we should all be pushing for technological advancement - but that it can't be good value for money, even if the technology and design is old. Look at the moving coil driver speaker: Hardly any advancement in over 70 years, and yet they remain the transducer of the masses and are exceptionally good value. On the other hand, look at wi-fi audio and you'll get the picture...
Really Mr.E, you do doubt me quite often...
but then you do have previous - ie 'being economical with the truth' in your prize-winning Hi-fi World letter. And don't think us editors don't talk
Clare, as I previously stated, I very often have my mate's LP12 because we both share records and share the turntable because I put £250 towards the £750 it cost. I don't doubt you editors talk, then again, I don't doubt you talk to manafacturers very often about reviews
Anyway, I must say Drummerman that I would like to agree with you - we should all be pushing for technological advancement - but that it can't be good value for money, even if the technology and design is old. Look at the moving coil driver speaker: Hardly any advancement in over 70 years, and yet they remain the transducer of the masses and are exceptionally good value. On the other hand, look at wi-fi audio and you'll get the picture...
Hughes123:I don't doubt you editors talk, then again, I don't doubt you talk to manafacturers very often about reviews
...
I don't doubt the meaning of that sentence would elude anyone.
I don't doubt the meaning of that sentence would elude anyone.
Andrew Everard:
Hughes123:I don't doubt you editors talk, then again, I don't doubt you talk to manafacturers very often about reviews
...
I don't doubt the meaning of that sentence would elude anyone.
I don't doubt that was its intention...
Hughes123:I don't doubt you editors talk, then again, I don't doubt you talk to manafacturers very often about reviews
I don't doubt the meaning of that sentence would elude anyone.
I don't doubt that was its intention...
Well, it would be a bit tricky to carry out reviews without talking to the manufacturers, as they tend to supply loan samples for testing.
Beyond that, I'm not sure what you're on about or what the zipped mouth thing was meant to imply.
Beyond that, I'm not sure what you're on about or what the zipped mouth thing was meant to imply.
Andrew Everard:
Well, it would be a bit tricky to carry out reviews without talking to the manufacturers, as they tend to supply loan samples for testing.
Beyond that, I'm not sure what you're on about or what the zipped mouth thing was meant to imply.
I wouldn't want to be banned, so I'll stay
...
Well, it would be a bit tricky to carry out reviews without talking to the manufacturers, as they tend to supply loan samples for testing.
Beyond that, I'm not sure what you're on about or what the zipped mouth thing was meant to imply.
I wouldn't want to be banned, so I'll stay
chebby
Well-known member
Hughes123:I wouldn't want to be banned, so I'll stay
...
Why not? You've been banned before...
But come on - if you have an accusation to make, be an adolescent about it and spit it out.
Why not? You've been banned before...
But come on - if you have an accusation to make, be an adolescent about it and spit it out.
Gosh, groundless insinuations - how grown up.
Manufacturers try really hard to find out the outcome of reviews before they're published, but it's a total no-go - the first they get to know of the star ratings are when they read them in the mag, same as the rest of you.
Some will claim they knew (dealers, for some reason, often trot out this tired lie), but they don't. And neither do our commercial team.
Also, of course, unlike some rival magazines, we don't involve manufacturers to get involved with our tests as reviewers. They get to hear/see their review kit working if they wish (to avoid those damaged-in-transit situations, which can happen), but then we kick them out before we get down to comparative testing.
Manufacturers try really hard to find out the outcome of reviews before they're published, but it's a total no-go - the first they get to know of the star ratings are when they read them in the mag, same as the rest of you.
Some will claim they knew (dealers, for some reason, often trot out this tired lie), but they don't. And neither do our commercial team.
Also, of course, unlike some rival magazines, we don't involve manufacturers to get involved with our tests as reviewers. They get to hear/see their review kit working if they wish (to avoid those damaged-in-transit situations, which can happen), but then we kick them out before we get down to comparative testing.
Octopo:Even though I have no clue as to what's going on let's leave it shall we gents and boys?
Oh I think not - just far too tired of these sniggering implications and accusations. Would much rather they were out in the open and refutable...
Oh I think not - just far too tired of these sniggering implications and accusations. Would much rather they were out in the open and refutable...
matthewpiano
Well-known member
Hughes123:Andrew Everard:
Well, it would be a bit tricky to carry out reviews without talking to the manufacturers, as they tend to supply loan samples for testing.
Beyond that, I'm not sure what you're on about or what the zipped mouth thing was meant to imply.
I wouldn't want to be banned, so I'll stay
...
If you don't trust WHFS&V's reviews why read the magazine and why bother we these forums?
The accusations are completely unfounded and have been answered countless times. It gets a bit boring to hear people bringing out the old cliches about the hifi press.
Well, it would be a bit tricky to carry out reviews without talking to the manufacturers, as they tend to supply loan samples for testing.
Beyond that, I'm not sure what you're on about or what the zipped mouth thing was meant to imply.
I wouldn't want to be banned, so I'll stay
If you don't trust WHFS&V's reviews why read the magazine and why bother we these forums?
The accusations are completely unfounded and have been answered countless times. It gets a bit boring to hear people bringing out the old cliches about the hifi press.
Andrew Everard:
Octopo:Even though I have no clue as to what's going on let's leave it shall we gents and boys?
Oh I think not - just far too tired of these sniggering implications and accusations. Would much rather they were out in the open and refutable...
That's your job as a moderator. Should you get peeved as a judge? Agreed Hughesy can get tiresome with his statements, tiresome as in I may slit my throat the next time he says he owns the entire oil fields south of the Antarctic.
I wasn't a character when I was fifteen. Nor am I one now, Hughesy obviously knows the tightrope he's threaded upon, let him achieve his masterpiece.
Octopo:Even though I have no clue as to what's going on let's leave it shall we gents and boys?
Oh I think not - just far too tired of these sniggering implications and accusations. Would much rather they were out in the open and refutable...
That's your job as a moderator. Should you get peeved as a judge? Agreed Hughesy can get tiresome with his statements, tiresome as in I may slit my throat the next time he says he owns the entire oil fields south of the Antarctic.
I wasn't a character when I was fifteen. Nor am I one now, Hughesy obviously knows the tightrope he's threaded upon, let him achieve his masterpiece.
Hughes123:I wouldn't want to be banned, so I'll stay
...
Tempted just to ban him - again - for groundless inisnuations.
Shall I, boys and girls?
Tempted just to ban him - again - for groundless inisnuations.
Shall I, boys and girls?
idc
Well-known member
Andrew Everard:
Well, it would be a bit tricky to carry out reviews without talking to the manufacturers, as they tend to supply loan samples for testing.
A little queerie about the above. I am sure that elswehere in the forum it has been said by What hifi staff that you buy kit rather than have it loaned. I cannot find that entry, so may be wrong, but what is the policy regards buying and getting loans?
PS - regarding the original issue on the thread; I had my old B&W DM302s on the end of £15,000 worth of NAIM for a bit of fun after auditioning for an amp more in my price range...and the sound was amazing. Too many swear by NAIM to say their kit is rubbish.
Well, it would be a bit tricky to carry out reviews without talking to the manufacturers, as they tend to supply loan samples for testing.
A little queerie about the above. I am sure that elswehere in the forum it has been said by What hifi staff that you buy kit rather than have it loaned. I cannot find that entry, so may be wrong, but what is the policy regards buying and getting loans?
PS - regarding the original issue on the thread; I had my old B&W DM302s on the end of £15,000 worth of NAIM for a bit of fun after auditioning for an amp more in my price range...and the sound was amazing. Too many swear by NAIM to say their kit is rubbish.
Andrew Everard:
Hughes123:I wouldn't want to be banned, so I'll stay
...
Tempted just to ban him - again - for groundless inisnuations.
Shall I, boys and girls?
On that criteria we'd have to ban half the contributors to the Sony TV thread!
Nah, he's been warned, so let's all be friends for now
Hughes123:I wouldn't want to be banned, so I'll stay
Tempted just to ban him - again - for groundless inisnuations.
Shall I, boys and girls?
On that criteria we'd have to ban half the contributors to the Sony TV thread!
Nah, he's been warned, so let's all be friends for now
idc:Andrew Everard:
Well, it would be a bit tricky to carry out reviews without talking to the manufacturers, as they tend to supply loan samples for testing.
A little queerie about the above. I am sure that elswehere in the forum it has been said by What hifi staff that you buy kit rather than have it loaned. I cannot find that entry, so may be wrong, but what is the policy regards buying and getting loans?
We borrow what we can and buy the rest. As well as hearing kit at shows, in shops etc, too, to get an even broader idea of how the products perform and are positioned.
Well, it would be a bit tricky to carry out reviews without talking to the manufacturers, as they tend to supply loan samples for testing.
A little queerie about the above. I am sure that elswehere in the forum it has been said by What hifi staff that you buy kit rather than have it loaned. I cannot find that entry, so may be wrong, but what is the policy regards buying and getting loans?
We borrow what we can and buy the rest. As well as hearing kit at shows, in shops etc, too, to get an even broader idea of how the products perform and are positioned.
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