Gazzip
Well-known member
drummerman said:Gaz37 said:
The equivalent of Vandamme. Tried, tested, reliable but a little pedestrian
Jean Claude?
Gaz37
Well-known member
Ok lets say somebody is offering a million dollars to high end car manufacturers, or owners, to prove their car is nicer to drive or be a passenger in than, for example, a Hyundai i30
Mercedes, Bentley, Rolls Royce etc would be queueing at the door.
I expect 9 out of 10 people would pick the high end car as the difference is so obvious.
So why is nobody taking up the cable challenge?
Mercedes, Bentley, Rolls Royce etc would be queueing at the door.
I expect 9 out of 10 people would pick the high end car as the difference is so obvious.
So why is nobody taking up the cable challenge?
Native_bon
Well-known member
A very convenient example to argue your case. If a Company is offered money to prove it's streamers are the best in a blind test would they take the offer? Of course under totally controlled condition's *unknw*Gaz37 said:
Gaz37
Well-known member
Native_bon said:
Does it matter what the product is?
If a company genuinely believes its' products are better than average can you think of a good reason why they wouldn't jump at the chance to prove it?
For all the thousands of hifi products that are for sale I dont recall ever seeing look at our blind test results against our competitors and look everyone chose our product as the best.
Do you think they would sell more?
Or do you think a 5 star what hifi review sells more units for them....
Do you think they would sell more?
Or do you think a 5 star what hifi review sells more units for them....
Gaz37
Well-known member
ellisdj said:
Nothing in the hifi world is as controversial as cables so proving conclusively that they do actually make an improvement would be a dream come come true for the cable companies.
It's already been pointed out that
a)Many have fallen foul of advertising standards
b) Adverts only quote reviewers opinions and awards.
If a controlled test proved that cable X sounded better than cable Y whoever made cable X could shout it from the rooftops.
Why wouldn't they want that?
Why wouldn't any company want that proof about any or all of their products.
Its no different its all the same.
The blind tests that have been done prove nothing makes a conclusive difference so its all the same.
Its no different its all the same.
The blind tests that have been done prove nothing makes a conclusive difference so its all the same.
Native_bon
Well-known member
+1ellisdj said:
Cannot agree more with you. Transport player is just as controversial, but no one has asked for a blind test and offered money. People say it's just 0s and 1s so cannot possibly make any difference. Then let's look at an av amp, if has the ability to drive a speaker will sound the same as a 2 channel. What of dacs? Some people say they can hear very little to no difference, may be impossible to tell them apart in a blind test.
Am one who believes whether you hear differences or not will largely depend on a lot of factors. Factors of improvements are in my opinion accumulative. The sum of all good parts. Any weakness in a system, there lies the strongest point of performance. That's the way I like to look at it.
Gaz37
Well-known member
You can look at it like this - are they failing as businesses?
If people are buying their products - their cables for example and enjoying listening to them are they failing their customers ?
If people are buying their products - their cables for example and enjoying listening to them are they failing their customers ?
Gaz37
Well-known member
ellisdj said:
If a builder charges a pensioner £1000 for £50 worth of work is it ok if the pensioner is happy to pay that amount and believes the work to be worth it?
If you can DIY it yourself for £50 then paying £1k for the service may seem excessive and a con.
However if you deem the work to be worth £1k then who is in the wrong in that situation - I dont think anybody is.
However if you deem the work to be worth £1k then who is in the wrong in that situation - I dont think anybody is.
Gaz37 said:
You probably took the pensioner as an example of someone being exploited because they are either intimidated/vunerable or not in full command of their faculties.
Lets assume he is not (intimidated/vulnerable nor lacking in mental faculties) but happy to pay a grand for 50 quids worth of work ... yes, its ok.
Its all about choice. He could have had other quotes. He could have questioned the price. He didn't and was happy to pay. To him, its worth it, for whatever reason.
drummerman said:
If most other traders would have done the same job in this highly hypothetical situation, just as well, for £50 then I'd consider it as unethical behaviour to charge £1000.
The company I work for enforces strict levels of ethical behaviour.
Ethical behaviour makes a lot of sense. If my company were found to be charging 20 times more for a particular job than our competitors the resulting publicity would be extremely damaging to the extent that we may well be put out of business.
Charging 50% more or 100% more is one thing and is within the realms of ethical behaviour. Charging 2000% more is unethical and would be unacceptable behaviour for any company - in my opinion.
lindsayt said:
I fully understand. My example (or rather the one given with pensioner) was just to highlight that there is absolutely nothing illegal about charging 20 times more, for whatever reason.
As long as no one exploits the vulnerable and as long as the price is worth paying from the punters view ... fine.
I think it would be fair to say that most Audiophiles that pay large sums of money for wire have enough disposable income and a believe that it is worth it for them.
No problem imho.
Gaz37
Well-known member
drummerman said:
You think it ok for unscrupulous so called experts to exploit people who maybe should but don't know better?
As long as the person that's been conned is happy all is fine?
Gaz37 said:
Very theatrical.
Are you still going on about the 'pensioner' thing?
I had a feeling it would pull heart strings
Have you ever heard of demand and supply? (Probably not). As long as there is a demand for a service or product, there will be a supply.
I let you think a little bit about this one.
Dont try too hard though.
shadders
Well-known member
Hi,
If a cable manufacturer stated that their cables have no effect on the sound, and were still charging £500 for example, for such a cable, would you still buy it if you thought it did change the sound ?.
If that manufacturer then stated, people who buy the companies cables are gullible fools, wasting their money, and all they do is repackage a cable with a pretty colour insulation and robust expensive looking connectors, would you still buy the cable ?
It is similar to Gerald Ratner, where he made claims about the jewellery products, and he had to leave the company. He told the truth, but it was bad for business. So, I do not see cable companies being honest either.
Regards,
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Shadders.
If a cable manufacturer stated that their cables have no effect on the sound, and were still charging £500 for example, for such a cable, would you still buy it if you thought it did change the sound ?.
If that manufacturer then stated, people who buy the companies cables are gullible fools, wasting their money, and all they do is repackage a cable with a pretty colour insulation and robust expensive looking connectors, would you still buy the cable ?
It is similar to Gerald Ratner, where he made claims about the jewellery products, and he had to leave the company. He told the truth, but it was bad for business. So, I do not see cable companies being honest either.
Regards,
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Shadders.
Gaz37
Well-known member
drummerman said:Gaz37 said:
Very theatrical.
Are you still going on about the 'pensioner' thing?
I had a feeling it would pull heart strings
Have you ever heard of demand and supply? (Probably not). As long as there is a demand for a service or product, there will be a supply.
I let you think a little bit about this one.
Dont try too hard though.
Suppose you wanted your car to run smoother, you go to your local garage where the mechanic recommends some upgraded fuel lines at £500, you're sceptical but he takes you for a drive in a totally different car to your own and it seems great so you pay for the fuel lines. When you drive home you are sure your car feels like its running better.
Is that fair?
Thats where your analogy is wrong.
The mechanic does the work on your car and lets you take it home with you for a few weeks to see what you think.
Better yet you can easily put it back to how it was before to compare and assess
Then after that trial period if you are comfortable its worth it you buy and keep. If not you return and the mechanic has done all the work for you to that point for free
The mechanic does the work on your car and lets you take it home with you for a few weeks to see what you think.
Better yet you can easily put it back to how it was before to compare and assess
Then after that trial period if you are comfortable its worth it you buy and keep. If not you return and the mechanic has done all the work for you to that point for free
Gaz37
Well-known member
ellisdj said:
The principle is the same, you are relying on the expert opinion of a professional, as you do when you visit your hifi retailer.
In my analogy the customer is happy so rectification isn't an issue.
So has the mechanic done anything wrong?
Your assuming a dealer is telling someone to buy a certain type of cable from them. I am sure they recommend them at times.
But i bet most of the time a person approaches them asking to try / buy them.
I would guess this is the case for most items most of the time
But i bet most of the time a person approaches them asking to try / buy them.
I would guess this is the case for most items most of the time
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