Yes it does make a big difference.

[Native_bon]

I very nearly thought I was going to read a cables thread without dispute until you suggested their lean delivery might change as they 'settle down'. I'm not sure what electrical properties in a length of wire you think will change the more you use it and cause it to 'settle down', as you put it.

Can someone answer the Major? He has asked this twice now.

I'd like to know what properties of a cable can 'settle down' too.

Thanks.

Am not certain if the sound will change over time. Thats the reason why i got the cable in a different system so i don't get use to the sound. If it changes fine, it does not its going back. All am certain of at this point in time, is that no cable I have tried in the past sounds like the TQ Black. If the sound does not change over time I will say so. I doubt if it would.

Weather there is a science behind it or not time will tell.

 

[bigfish786]

I'd like to know at what point cables can either no longer be improved upon - measured? Or is no longer financially possible to make better?

there are so many variables at work here, from the quality of the copper, to the thickness of the strands, then the insulation, to the lengths of the cables.

What I use cost less than £6 a metre. I guess that's my limit when it comes to spending on speaker cable

 

[CnoEvil]

I'd like to know at what point cables can either no longer be improved upon - measured? Or is no longer financially possible to make better?

there are so many variables at work here, from the quality of the copper, to the thickness of the strands, then the insulation, to the lengths of the cables.

What I use cost less than £6 a metre. I guess that's my limit when it comes to spending on speaker cable

IMO. This is something that one has to try for oneself.

In a cable dem, I much preferred Atlas Mavros to their Asimi (much more expensive).

I have a rule, which is that you should never spend more on cables, than you would would give a bigger improvement by spending it somewhere else.

 

[Dom]

I very nearly thought I was going to read a cables thread without dispute until you suggested their lean delivery might change as they 'settle down'. I'm not sure what electrical properties in a length of wire you think will change the more you use it and cause it to 'settle down', as you put it.

Can someone answer the Major? He has asked this twice now.

I'd like to know what properties of a cable can 'settle down' too.

Thanks.

The guy in Sevonoaks said dielectric. The cable needs to settle for a while.

​Wiki:

A dielectric material (dielectric for short) is an electrical insulator that can be polarized by an applied electric field. When a dielectric is placed in an electric field, electric charges do not flow through the material as they do in a conductor, but only slightly shift from their average equilibrium positions causing dielectric polarization. Because of dielectric polarization, positive charges are displaced toward the field and negative charges shift in the opposite direction. This creates an internal electric field that reduces the overall field within the dielectric itself.[1] If a dielectric is composed of weakly bonded molecules, those molecules not only become polarized, but also reorient so that their symmetry axes align to the field

 

[Gazzip]

Spent a couple of hours this morning dismantling my system and then putting it back together with Chord Signature Tuned Aray in place of my Atlas cheapo copper interconnects.

Spent a couple of hours this afternoon dismantling my system and then putting it back together with my Atlas cheapo copper interconnects in place of the Chord Signature Tuned Aray interconnects.

What an awful sounding cable the Signature was in my system. Bright and bloated mids and a suppressed dynamic range. It rendered some of my favourite music almost unrecognisable. Shudder...

 

[ellisdj]

It was all in your head obviously

 

[Dom]

I upgraded with QED Reference Audio 40 interconnects and QED Reference Optical Quartz.

​

 

[TrevC]

I very nearly thought I was going to read a cables thread without dispute until you suggested their lean delivery might change as they 'settle down'. I'm not sure what electrical properties in a length of wire you think will change the more you use it and cause it to 'settle down', as you put it.

Can someone answer the Major? He has asked this twice now.

I'd like to know what properties of a cable can 'settle down' too.

Thanks.

The guy in Sevonoaks said dielectric. The cable needs to settle for a while.

​Wiki:

A dielectric material (dielectric for short) is an electrical insulator that can be polarized by an applied electric field. When a dielectric is placed in an electric field, electric charges do not flow through the material as they do in a conductor, but only slightly shift from their average equilibrium positions causing dielectric polarization. Because of dielectric polarization, positive charges are displaced toward the field and negative charges shift in the opposite direction. This creates an internal electric field that reduces the overall field within the dielectric itself.[1] If a dielectric is composed of weakly bonded molecules, those molecules not only become polarized, but also reorient so that their symmetry axes align to the field

LOL

 

[Infiniteloop]

Spent a couple of hours this morning dismantling my system and then putting it back together with Chord Signature Tuned Aray in place of my Atlas cheapo copper interconnects.

Spent a couple of hours this afternoon dismantling my system and then putting it back together with my Atlas cheapo copper interconnects in place of the Chord Signature Tuned Aray interconnects.

What an awful sounding cable the Signature was in my system. Bright and bloated mids and a suppressed dynamic range. It rendered some of my favourite music almost unrecognisable. Shudder...

I actually prefer cheap printer USB cable in my systems where I have tried expensive cables.

Does this mean the usual suspects will be along in a moment to accuse us of 'reverse expectation bias'?

 

[iMark]

In our system AirPlay over WiFi sounds much better than over Ethernet because we have eridicated the cable altogether!

 

[Gaz37]

That guy on Top Gear thought the Ford RS was as much fun to drive as a Ferrari, and Matt Leblanc quite rightly picked him up on it. I suppose no matter how much fun a £30,000 pound car is, I'd rather drive £100,000 car, it's going to be better.

So a £100,000 Ferrari is better than a £30,000 Focus?

Define better.

Faster? Yes certainly, but not in a way that can be exploited 99.99999% of the time. In fact I'd go so far as to say that, on public roads, a competant driver in a Focus RS could keep up with a Ferrari

More comfortable? Nope

More reliable? Nope

More economical? Nope

More practical? Nope

Better handling? Possibly, but in way that would be lost on most drivers and, like performance, couldn't be exploited on a public road.

Better built? Nope, I only have experience of a couple of Ferraris but they appeared to made of kitchen foil & cardboard & were held together more by willpower than engineering.

Smug satisfaction at owning a car that most people could never afford? Yes definately

You expect a Ferrari to be better than a Focus but is it really, in the real world when you remove the only true reason to buy the Ferrari- it's flashy?

 

[ellisdj]

Native it's been a week have you tried the TQ black out again in your main system?
Sod everyone else what were your thoughts?

 

[alwaysbeblue1]

I remember all the put your cds in the freezer overnight and put a brick on your cd player. Well none of them actually work, but if your brain signals are telling you that a brick is giving you more of an open, airy sound.. . Good on you, you have just saved some money.

But to suggest some wire is better than some other wire is an expensive waste of time. When differences between a 500 cd player and 1000 one is small that it is almost hardly noticeable and you need to be listening intently not enjoying the music.

Hi Fi shows differences in small amounts and I have never heard any difference in any wire I have ever listened to

 

[CnoEvil]

...and I have never heard any difference in any wire I have ever listened to

What cables have you compared and in what system?

 

[TrevC]

...and I have never heard any difference in any wire I have ever listened to

What cables have you compared and in what system?

No need to compare. Interconnects made of normal screened wire and used at line levels can only sound the same, nothing else is possible, it's obvious to any non-idiot that mains stuff can affect nothing at all performance wise and if you want the best possible speaker wire you pick the thick low resistance stuff. It's electronics, not voodoo.

 

[Gazzip]

No need to compare. Interconnects made of normal screened wire and used at line levels can only sound the same, nothing else is possible, it's obvious to any non-idiot that mains stuff can affect nothing at all performance wise and if you want the best possible speaker wire you pick the thick low resistance stuff. It's electronics, not voodoo.

Yes, and interconnects which are not made from normal screened wire can sometimes sound different. Degraded yes, but different. Better or worse is down to the ear of the listener.

Myself I think I prefer undegraded normal screened wire, but somebody with different tastes may well prefer a shifted FR in the same way that some prefer valves over solid state.

 

[Native_bon]

Native it's been a week have you tried the TQ black out again in your main system? Sod everyone else what were your thoughts?

First of all I have to say again this cable does sound different to all other cables I have used. The cable now sounds much soomther, but still a bit too lean in the mids for my liking. Very forward & expressive mids. This is a love & hate cable to me. It really does dig out minute expressions in music. I believe cables can sound different depending on how much the cable hinders the flow of music. Some cables do hinder sound, to my ears this does not.

With some music it just sounds very smooth & with others it can sound very much in your face without sounding hard or harsh.

Picking up my IPL S2TLK speakers this sunday, will try them with the speakers before making my final decision whether to keep or return them.

 

[CnoEvil]

First of all I have to say again this cable does sound different to all other cables I have used. The cable now sounds much soomther, but still a bit too lean in the mids for my liking. Very forward & expressive mids. This is a love & hate cable to me. It really does dig out minute expressions in music. I believe cables can sound different depending on how much the cable hinders the flow of music. Some cables do hinder sound, to my ears this does not.

With some music it just sounds very smooth & with others it can sound very much in your face without sounding hard or harsh.

Picking up my IPL S2TLK speakers this sunday, will try them with the speakers before making my final decision whether to keep or return them.

This is exactly what I heard, so agree with your description.

Of course, if one hasn't heard the cable, then one can know with certainty, that it won't make a difference. *diablo*

 

[TrevC]

No need to compare. Interconnects made of normal screened wire and used at line levels can only sound the same, nothing else is possible, it's obvious to any non-idiot that mains stuff can affect nothing at all performance wise and if you want the best possible speaker wire you pick the thick low resistance stuff. It's electronics, not voodoo.

Yes, and interconnects which are not made from normal screened wire can sometimes sound different. Degraded yes, but different. Better or worse is down to the ear of the listener.

Myself I think I prefer undegraded normal screened wire, but somebody with different tastes may well prefer a shifted FR in the same way that some prefer valves over solid state.

So better can equal degraded? Wow.

 

[TrevC]

First of all I have to say again this cable does sound different to all other cables I have used. The cable now sounds much soomther, but still a bit too lean in the mids for my liking. Very forward & expressive mids. This is a love & hate cable to me. It really does dig out minute expressions in music. I believe cables can sound different depending on how much the cable hinders the flow of music. Some cables do hinder sound, to my ears this does not.

With some music it just sounds very smooth & with others it can sound very much in your face without sounding hard or harsh.

Picking up my IPL S2TLK speakers this sunday, will try them with the speakers before making my final decision whether to keep or return them.

This is exactly what I heard, so agree with your description.

Of course, if one hasn't heard the cable, then one can know with certainty, that it won't make a difference. *diablo*

One only needs to know that the signal is not attenuated, which means low resistance. Nothing else matters.

 

[Native_bon]

First of all I have to say again this cable does sound different to all other cables I have used. The cable now sounds much soomther, but still a bit too lean in the mids for my liking. Very forward & expressive mids. This is a love & hate cable to me. It really does dig out minute expressions in music. I believe cables can sound different depending on how much the cable hinders the flow of music. Some cables do hinder sound, to my ears this does not.

With some music it just sounds very smooth & with others it can sound very much in your face without sounding hard or harsh.

Picking up my IPL S2TLK speakers this sunday, will try them with the speakers before making my final decision whether to keep or return them.

This is exactly what I heard, so agree with your description.

Of course, if one hasn't heard the cable, then one can know with certainty, that it won't make a difference. *diablo*

The prove is in the listening really. *good*

 

[TrevC]

The prove is in the listening really. *good*

To speakers, yes, to the cables that connect them, no. They have to be low resistance, which can be measured. For speaker cables that means multistranded and large diameter conductors.

 

[Gazzip]

No need to compare. Interconnects made of normal screened wire and used at line levels can only sound the same, nothing else is possible, it's obvious to any non-idiot that mains stuff can affect nothing at all performance wise and if you want the best possible speaker wire you pick the thick low resistance stuff. It's electronics, not voodoo.

Yes, and interconnects which are not made from normal screened wire can sometimes sound different. Degraded yes, but different. Better or worse is down to the ear of the listener.

Myself I think I prefer undegraded normal screened wire, but somebody with different tastes may well prefer a shifted FR in the same way that some prefer valves over solid state.

So better can equal degraded? Wow.

For some people yes I believe that degraded does mean better.

Our hearing changes as we get older so one size doesn't fit all. I often wonder whether the rise in the cable manufacturer can be directly linked to the removal of tone controls from most kit back in the 90's.

Probably better to pop a graphic equalizer or DSP in to a system to mess with the sound rather than feck about with improperly constructed interconnects and speaker cables. However I am as guilty as any of ocassionally deliving in to the dark world of the cable...

 

[ellisdj]

multi standed yes - all in together touching uck filth - sounds terrible

 

[Kubs]

Hi Native Bon,
So you are picking up a pair of ipl speakers .... I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on their sound and integration with your system.

I've been intrigued by the ipl for a while - did you manage to demo and I assume your are buying them from iq speakers?