Yes it does make a big difference.

[MajorFubar]

I only questioned what you thought was going to change as they 'settled down'. If the electrical proporties of low-resistance conductors like speaker cables changed over time significantly, then in general, and thinking about the bigger picture, we’d be snookered. The world as you currently know it wouldn’t work.

It’s difficult not to sound sarcastic but audiophiles so often act as though HiFi components are mystical and exempt from the same electrical laws and theorems which in other aspects of their life they rely on every day to be unquestionably correct and infallible.

It doesn't stop me genuinely wishing you all the best with your purchase though.

 

[iMark]

[/quote] I use to think like you. Just to be sure just now, I put in my old cables & they sound just like they sounded. Then here comes the black again, man talk about the difference is clear is an understatement. Like I stated in an earlier post I was expecting a warm sound from the blacks & that never happened. Should expectation bais not make the black sound warm to my ears? Think about it.

I have tried many cables but never really sure weather they made a difference or not. Actually I always thought I wasted my money. Well, I may have wasted my money in this case cause not sure if I like the sound. A difference for sure it makes. I don't need to justify it makes a difference if am more likely to return them.

I even tired the black in my second system(Quad Vena & Q acoustics 3050) same result.

[/quote]

A perfect description of expectation bias since you plugged in the cables yourself. Your experience would have been much more valid and even a little bit interesting if you'd had another person plugging in the cables without you knowing what was plugged in.

 

[Kubs]

Audiophool ... I like it!

 

[Gazzip]

Tellurium Q black speaker cables. I can confidently say this is the cable that shows that cables do make a difference. Very clean & airy cable. Now, it does make a difference, but weather am ready to live with the sound is a different question. I just got them a few days now & still waiting to see if the sound settles dwn a bit more. Not a shred of a thought, these sound far more open airy & detail than my crystal 24 speaker cables.

Still will give more time, cause finding them a bit on the lean side right now,(not bright) but they really get to the heart of the music. It may just be the case the cables are showing some weakness in my system, or they need time to settle dwn.

If you want to really get to heart of the music, try a pair out, your first reaction will be WOW.

I found them very different from anything I had in my system before them, although I never really took to them. Thought they were too smooth.

 

[Native_bon]

Tellurium Q black speaker cables. I can confidently say this is the cable that shows that cables do make a difference. Very clean & airy cable. Now, it does make a difference, but weather am ready to live with the sound is a different question. I just got them a few days now & still waiting to see if the sound settles dwn a bit more. Not a shred of a thought, these sound far more open airy & detail than my crystal 24 speaker cables.

Still will give more time, cause finding them a bit on the lean side right now,(not bright) but they really get to the heart of the music. It may just be the case the cables are showing some weakness in my system, or they need time to settle dwn.

If you want to really get to heart of the music, try a pair out, your first reaction will be WOW.

I found them very different from anything I had in my system before them, although I never really took to them. Thought they were too smooth.

Same here. Nothing I have tried Sounds the same as the black. Leaving them for a few days in my second system to see if any change. At least I would know I have not gotten use to the sound of the cable. Any report I give back, its always going to be expectation bias. *smile*

 

[Frank Harvey]

Like I stated in an earlier post I was expecting a warm sound from the blacks & that never happened. Should expectation bais not make the black sound warm to my ears? Think about it.

Apparently, expectation bias never works in a negative way, only positive. If you expect something to sound better, it will. But if you expect it to sound worse, expectation bias doesn't exist. I've brought this up before - I once tried (borrowed, paid nothing) an expensive set of Townshend speaker cables expecting them to sound better than the cables I had at the time, but they didn't. Going by the expectation bias rule book, they should've sounded better.

 

[Native_bon]

Like I stated in an earlier post I was expecting a warm sound from the blacks & that never happened. Should expectation bais not make the black sound warm to my ears? Think about it.

Apparently, expectation bias never works in a negative way, only positive. If you expect something to sound better, it will. But if you expect it to sound worse, expectation bias doesn't exist. I've brought this up before - I once tried (borrowed, paid nothing) an expensive set of Townshend speaker cables expecting them to sound better than the cables I had at the time, but they didn't. Going by the expectation bias rule book, they should've sounded better.

Its simple logic really.

 

[thewinelake.]

Presumably capacitance, resistance and inductance could be measured and compared to other cables or older cables. It might even be worth putting some cable in the oven or freezer to see if that helps?

What about interconnect cable and optical?

I might quite like some warming cable sometimes, but now I'm a member of the AVI cult, speaker cable means nothing to me.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Like I stated in an earlier post I was expecting a warm sound from the blacks & that never happened. Should expectation bais not make the black sound warm to my ears? Think about it.

Apparently, expectation bias never works in a negative way, only positive. If you expect something to sound better, it will. But if you expect it to sound worse, expectation bias doesn't exist. I've brought this up before - I once tried (borrowed, paid nothing) an expensive set of Townshend speaker cables expecting them to sound better than the cables I had at the time, but they didn't. Going by the expectation bias rule book, they should've sounded better.

Why is it that those who subscribe to the 'expectation bias' theory, don't seem to realise that if they expect to not hear a difference, they won't.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Why is it that those who subscribe to the 'expectation bias' theory, don't seem to realise that if they expect to not hear a difference, they won't.

Exactly

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Why is it that those who subscribe to the 'expectation bias' theory, don't seem to realise that if they expect to not hear a difference, they won't.

Exactly  

Its not a theory, its a fact

 

[ellisdj]

Expectation bias says you only hear a difference because you know you changed the cable - its all in your head

Same as if you thought you was eating cheap nasty baked beans you would think these taste nasty until someone shows you it was actually heinz you was just eating. It was all in your head you got it wrong that once.

I totally understand that - never in that test has somone ever been given sighted some beans to try before they do the blind test to give them a point of reference more recent than the last time they had beans - weeks ago maybe but never mind.

So you get the Beez Neez speaker cable, full of excitement - these are going to be brilliant you plug them in expecting them to be brilliant, your system is going to be amazing and its not.

Just like the op - there is bits I like but ulitmately he has moved them to the second system.

He was obviously expecting them to be great - his expectation was for them to be great - so if its all imaginary how come the reality doesnt match up to the imagination?

What causes that ??

 

[abacus]

Expectation bias says you only hear a difference because you know you changed the cable - its all in your head

Same as if you thought you was eating cheap nasty baked beans you would think these taste nasty until someone shows you it was actually heinz you was just eating. It was all in your head you got it wrong that once.

I totally understand that - never in that test has somone ever been given sighted some beans to try before they do the blind test to give them a point of reference more recent than the last time they had beans - weeks ago maybe but never mind.

So you get the Beez Neez speaker cable, full of excitement - these are going to be brilliant you plug them in expecting them to be brilliant, your system is going to be amazing and its not.

Just like the op - there is bits I like but ulitmately he has moved them to the second system.

He was obviously expecting them to be great - his expectation was for them to be great - so if its all imaginary how come the reality doesnt match up to the imagination?

What causes that ??

Like all things in life it depends on the person, some find small things really exciting, whereas others require something massive to get a response. (In general, the younger you are, the more easily excitable you are)

This is why it is of paramount importance to remove anything that might bias the test result, or the results become null & void. (Full disclosure of the test conditions and findings must also be published, so that they can be replicated by others for verification)

In the final analysis it is down to the user to find what makes them happy, (And is it worth spending the money) however, when posting on forums, (Or talking to others) it is imperative to make the point that it is in your opinion better, and not a verified fact

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[ellisdj]

Surely everything posted on a forum is a persons opinion and is only ever seen like that from the readers view.

Surely noone expects a person to write a disclaimer under every post.

With the exception of the Google or wiki copy and paste it brigade of course

 

[BigH]

Like I stated in an earlier post I was expecting a warm sound from the blacks & that never happened. Should expectation bais not make the black sound warm to my ears? Think about it.

Apparently, expectation bias never works in a negative way, only positive. If you expect something to sound better, it will. But if you expect it to sound worse, expectation bias doesn't exist. I've brought this up before - I once tried (borrowed, paid nothing) an expensive set of Townshend speaker cables expecting them to sound better than the cables I had at the time, but they didn't. Going by the expectation bias rule book, they should've sounded better.

That is not so, it works both ways, for example people will not believe a cheap product will be as good as a more expensive one, this has been shown in tests by swapping labels and indicating the price of products. Expectation bias is just that.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

When we eat beans or listen to hifi many things are affecting our interpretation of that experience. As well as expectation bias, mood, environment etc etc are factors beyond our conscious control. Try to explain placeabo! Examples of all our senses being fooled are all around us - sight, sound, taste, smell and even touch. That's why many of us look to science to evaluate, postulate and test our theories - like our forefathers have done for thousands of years. Whilst science can prove existence it can not disprove existence hence ghosts, UFOs, gods, particle theories etc etc etc ....... zzzzzzzz

 

[ellisdj]

Exactly - I have just got a brand new toy I am super excited to own, I cant wait to hear it, its going to be amazing

Nope actually it doesnt sound like that at all

Other times (i.e. different product adding to the system) wow this does sound amazing

Same mood setting - same evironment - same expectation going in - same previous experience - different outcome....

 

[Native_bon]

There is no doubt expectation bias does happen, but think it is just being mentioned too often in every situation now.

 

[Dom]

I read people cannot tell the difference between amplifiers, and I suppose that relates to all things. If it plays music its all gonna sound the same to alot of poeple.

That guy on Top Gear thought the Ford RS was as much fun to drive as a Ferrari, and Matt Leblanc quite rightly picked him up on it. I suppose no matter how much fun a £30,000 pound car is, I'd rather drive £100,000 car, it's going to be better.

So, I like my HiFi, it sounds good, but I would rather upgrade my M1 DAC to a NAIM DAC, because it's going to be better. Even though I'm satisfied with the sound.

I expect the difference for me would be night and day.

My brother not so much difference. He might think that spending 1K for a bit better sound is just throwing money away.

I agree with him for the most part.

 

[Gazzip]

There is no doubt expectation bias does happen, but think it is just being mentioned too often in every situation now.

Completely correct. There is a great deal of nonsense spoken/written about what is and is not expectation bias. It is the stock go to, ironically un-scientific, argument used by the "scientist hifi enthusiast" to deride the "audiophile" who believes that cables can make a difference. There is actuially a great deal of scientific evidence that proves cables can change the characteristic of sound by manipulation of their electrical resistance, inductance and capacitance. For the better or worse is entilrely at the users discretion.

What really matters here is when cable companies claim their products "improve" the sound, making it "more open" or "more detailed". Comparisons are relative to what is in a given system, and better is a matter of taste/opinion, so for any manufacturer to claim any kind of "improvement" brought about by their products over their cheaper cable counterparts is the real problem. The ASA has stepped in at least once that I am aware of (Chord Sarum ethernet cable) but IMHO they should do a lot more to stop these claims from happening in the first place.

Unfortunately this important industry problem seems to have become somewhat buried beneath two polemic groups spouting equally illinformed panacea vs placebo BS at each other.

Glad I got that off my chest...

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

Tellurium Q black speaker cables. I can confidently say this is the cable that shows that cables do make a difference. Very clean & airy cable. Now, it does make a difference, but weather am ready to live with the sound is a different question. I just got them a few days now & still waiting to see if the sound settles dwn a bit more. Not a shred of a thought, these sound far more open airy & detail than my crystal 24 speaker cables.

Still will give more time, cause finding them a bit on the lean side right now,(not bright) but they really get to the heart of the music. It may just be the case the cables are showing some weakness in my system, or they need time to settle dwn.

If you want to really get to heart of the music, try a pair out, your first reaction will be WOW.

Your opinion of a test without methodology stays your opinion. It's not a fact. Enjoy your rainbow farting unicorn cable until you realise that psychological factors trapped you.

 

[Gazzip]

Tellurium Q black speaker cables. I can confidently say this is the cable that shows that cables do make a difference. Very clean & airy cable. Now, it does make a difference, but weather am ready to live with the sound is a different question. I just got them a few days now & still waiting to see if the sound settles dwn a bit more. Not a shred of a thought, these sound far more open airy & detail than my crystal 24 speaker cables.

Still will give more time, cause finding them a bit on the lean side right now,(not bright) but they really get to the heart of the music. It may just be the case the cables are showing some weakness in my system, or they need time to settle dwn.

If you want to really get to heart of the music, try a pair out, your first reaction will be WOW.

Your opinion of a test without methodology stays your opinion. It's not a fact. Enjoy your rainbow farting unicorn cable until you realise that psychological factors trapped you.

I rest my case.

 

[Native_bon]

Tellurium Q black speaker cables. I can confidently say this is the cable that shows that cables do make a difference. Very clean & airy cable. Now, it does make a difference, but weather am ready to live with the sound is a different question. I just got them a few days now & still waiting to see if the sound settles dwn a bit more. Not a shred of a thought, these sound far more open airy & detail than my crystal 24 speaker cables.

Still will give more time, cause finding them a bit on the lean side right now,(not bright) but they really get to the heart of the music. It may just be the case the cables are showing some weakness in my system, or they need time to settle dwn.

If you want to really get to heart of the music, try a pair out, your first reaction will be WOW.

Your opinion of a test without methodology stays your opinion. It's not a fact. Enjoy your rainbow farting unicorn cable until you realise that psychological factors trapped you.

NICE!!

 

[chebby]

I very nearly thought I was going to read a cables thread without dispute until you suggested their lean delivery might change as they 'settle down'. I'm not sure what electrical properties in a length of wire you think will change the more you use it and cause it to 'settle down', as you put it.

Can someone answer the Major? He has asked this twice now.

I'd like to know what properties of a cable can 'settle down' too.

Thanks.

 

[Kubs]

This is very entertaining ...