Winding back the clock

[Pyramus]

OK, so... I get it. The glossy world of advertising is... well, advertising. Streaming doesn't sound that great. Playing music from your hard drive has to deal with your system crashing, your battery running out, you being unable to find your charger, because you left it at work, the file being unable to play because your VLC or iTunes went dead.

So, I am tired of listening to low quality audio through my high end system, or annoyed by the inconvenience of everything it is supposed to be, but isn't. Distracted by so much else that I find myself coming home, putting on music, (cooking, doing some work, bieng a dad) and then realising about three hours later, that I didn't get to listen to that music at all, despite the five or six attempts I made at making it work. Instead, I listened to my upstars neighbour's Guns and Roses through the ceiling.

Don't get me wrong, the source stuff I have is all good gear, but I find myself yearning for a simpler and more robust medium. A record player comes to mind, as does a CD player. You know, you go to the shelf, select the album, place it in the device. Press play.

And it plays music. Doesn't run out of battery. Doesn't crash. Doesn't 'fail to open'.

So. To support the limitiations of my hard-disk based sources, I am going to buy a proper CD transport. I am going to start listening to the silver disks again. I will put myself though the inconvenience of badly moulded covers that crack, and a product that is heavy, and takes up real space. I will do this gladly, if it means I can just bosh the title in the machine and press play.

So... For 1K Euro, my best option seems to be the 'Project RC' and for a bit more, the 'Cyrus CDT'. I will run this through a Musical fidelity V90 Dac, an Electrocomaniet PI-2, and Standmounted Elac BS244s. The idea is to also upgrade the DAC at some point, and the Project do a nice little combo with the twinned Project Dac (my dealer recommended this). So... it is worth forking out the little extra for the Cyrus? The European price of the Cyrus is around 1120, or thereabouts.

So... question is, what would you recommend for around Euro 1K CD transport? I am open to ideas.

Thanks so much in advance for all and any help. Excuse me if this has been covered in the forum before.

Pyramus.

 

[steve_1979]

What source are you currently using?

There's shouldn't be any problem playing music from a hard disk or streaming over the net. I've been doing both of these for years and have never had a single problem with either reliability or sound quality.

It might be worth fixing the source of the iTunes / streaming issue rather than unnecessarily spending £1000 on a CD player that you don't need.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Ooooohhh!..... This thread may ruffle a few feathers, Emperor's New cloths etc.....

Anyhoo..... A grand is a nice budget - walk into your nearest hi-fi dealer and have a chat you have plenty of options - couple of them on here you may be able to visit.

Many 'soft medium fans' here will try to convince you no improvement can be had as digital is digital ignore them.

 

[abacus]

The sound quality of a CD is determined solely by the DAC & it's associated electronic components, so as you already have a quality DAC, it is pointless buying an expensive transport. (A Marantz 6005 or similer is all that you need)

Personally I would go for a Cambrige Streamer with Synology NAS drive and an iPod Touch, as it comes within your budget and should solve all your streaming and sound quality problems, thus making a CD Transport redundent.

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[Ajani]

There's nothing wrong if you'd rather use physical media to enjoy your music. So feel free to try out transports. However, the problems you are talking about should rarely ever occur with a properly setup streaming system. I've been using hardrives/streaming for over a decade and have never had several of the issues you've talked about. So if you are really planning to change because of these problems and not just preference of physical media, then I'd suggest looking into a more reliable streamer instead.

 

[Jota180]

Streaming from a PC or even worse, a laptop isn't the best idea. A dedicated NAS is where it's at. They're designed to run 24/7, and with different Raid setups have built in redundency so if a disk dies your music is still all there. I've no idea what "VLC going dead" even means. Software can crash but then you start it up again.

Also, you've no one to blame for listening to low quality audio but yourself. You're the one that chose it and bought it.

In your world CD players don't break down? Tell that to my old Pioneer multi disk, my old Rotel, my not so old NAD. Every single CD player I've owned bar the Marantz has broken down. The Marantz hasn't because it has now spent longer sitting in a cupboard doing nothing than it did playing CD's. Electronics with moving parts are surely more susceptible to break downs than electronics with no moving parts, all things being equal.

The limitations of your system comes from the choices you made when you chose it.

 

[MeanandGreen]

I see where the op is coming from. Sometimes it is nice to just take software and wifi out of the equation and opt for sticking a physical object into a machine and pressing play. I totally get that and often take that option myself.

I get irritated waiting for devices to sync or apps to boot up, as well as software updates and wifi not connecting. No it's not a big issue and yes this modern world of streaming and digital storage is pretty much 8/9 times out of 10 totally convienient and dandy. There are times though where just the simplicity of only having to press 'on, open/close & play' will do.

With regards to reliability I've had the same CD Player for 16 years and it is still as good as the day I bought it. How many of today's gadgets and services will still be good in 16 years? How many software updates before they are obsolete?

 

[MrReaper182]

Just because your using a substandard music streaming service does not mean they are all substandard. Try using Qobuz. I mostly listen to my music though CD's but when I do listen to music that's stored on my laptop I never have a problem. Clementine (the music player I use on my laptop) always works and I never forget my laptop charger. I stream the music stored on my laptop, ipod and phone to my hi-fi though my pioneer N-50 streamer and it's quick and easy and sounds fantastic.

 

[Pyramus]

Thank you all for this very interesting thread.

Agreed, the problems I am facing are certainly of my own making (and Steve Job's - macbookpro -, and Sony's - NWZ - ). Due in no small part to the fact that I am streaming off a laptop, live in a country where slow internet connection is ameliorated by the price of Vodka, and I am rather busy: pop ups such as 'boot', 'synch', 'loading', 'waiting', 'restart', 'upgrade', 'upadate', 'restart' do not add to my clemency in reflection on the medium.

It is so interesting to see the various responses... there is no generalisable rule it seems. Everyone has an answer that works for them (so it should work for everyone else)... and then there is that human element, the one where plenty of you appear to have the beatific patience and clarity of order that appears to elude me when trying to cook dinner, help with homework, reflect on the Orwellian murk of the work world, and all I want to do is play dat tune. Admitted, it is that inefficient, short tempered, petulance (me) that once repaired a NAD cassette player drive unit with the rubber ring off a condom (student times); and the NAD carried on to play seamlessly for another ten years. Wouldn't happen now of course, (neither of the afore mentioned items being a part of my life anymore), but the point remains.

Don't get me wrong, I am not giving up on the the 're-boot stuff', I like it too, espcially when it works. I just need a reliable alternative when I need a quick fix of music.

so... I am hearing this at the moment:

"Don't get a 1K transport", get something more like the Cambridge CXC CD transport which will work well with my DAC. (Is this coming from people who see no future in the CD: cut your losses type opinion?)

"Invest in a dedicated streamer" !?!?! What on earth.... ? Well, yes, might be a good idea. Question is, will this also work with a 'not too brilliant' internet connection? Will the streamer also play my HD files? ITunes thingie... what? More Apple gear? Can't stand all that swipieness, gives me a headache and makes me socially intolerant.

"Its yer own silly fault!" Yes, agreed, part of the fun no doubt. *drinks* However, all the non-re-boot stuff I chose (amp, speakers, cables, DAC) is stunning. All good choices there, and made with the help of this forum! *clapping*

Pyramus

 

[bigfish786]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leema-Antila-Multi-DAC-CD-Player-/121836969787?hash=item1c5e0c9f3b:g:zmMAAOSwu-BWQNT5

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leema-Antila-Multi-DAC-CD-Player-/121836969787?hash=item1c5e0c9f3b:g:zmMAAOSwu-BWQNT5

 

[Bradley747]

I reccomend the Cambridge CXC or the Audio Lab MCDT

Both way under your budget and should offer you exactly what you need

Spend the other 500 on CDs?

 

[Vladimir]

Please spare 5 minutes and take this Tidal Hi-Fi test. You will hear three tune samples and detect which one is played at 320AAC and which at hi-fi quality of 16/44.1.

I personally couldn't tell a difference through my AKG K702 headphones and just subscribed to the cheaper 320 stream on Tidal. A simple 5 min test saves me money every month. No more CDs and FLAC cluttering my PC and phones. Tidal, Qobuz or Spotify is everything I need. I'm not willing to pay through the nose for imaginery or non audible differences. YMMV

 

[chebby]

Please spare 5 minutes and take this Tidal Hi-Fi test. You will hear three tune samples and detect which one is played at 320AAC and which at hi-fi quality of 16/44.1.

I personally couldn't tell a difference through my AKG K702 headphones and just subscribed to the cheaper 320 stream on Tidal. A simple 5 min test saves me money every month. No more CDs and FLAC cluttering my PC and phones. Tidal, Qobuz or Spotify is everything I need. I'm not willing to pay through the nose for imaginery or non audible differences. YMMV

I have known this since doing my own tests between 250k AAC, 320k AAC and ALAC with my second DAC about six years ago.

Various other tests since then (like your linked one) have just confirmed over and over that 320k AAC VBR is optimum for sound quality and space. It's the setting i've used for all my CD rips.

 

[Vladimir]

I would never offer that test to someone who just likes collecting CDs, LPs etc. and finds playing physical media more enjoyable than PC/phone/tablet playback. But since Pyramus said it's about sound quality and not about personal preferences, then I say do the test and be sure you can really apreciate the quality your investement will yield.

The difference between 320AAC and 16/44.1 in Tidal subscribtion is a factor of 4. Basic is $2.5 and Hi-Fi is $10. In 10 years (120 months) I will save $864 for not paying for added resolution that I can't hear and appreciate. I can use that money for future speaker purchase and get better speakers that will give me audible improvements.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Thank you all for this very interesting thread.

Agreed, the problems I am facing are certainly of my own making (and Steve Job's - macbookpro -, and Sony's - NWZ - ). Due in no small part to the fact that I am streaming off a laptop, live in a country where slow internet connection is ameliorated by the price of Vodka, and I am rather busy: pop ups such as 'boot', 'synch', 'loading', 'waiting', 'restart', 'upgrade', 'upadate', 'restart' do not add to my clemency in reflection on the medium.

It is so interesting to see the various responses... there is no generalisable rule it seems. Everyone has an answer that works for them (so it should work for everyone else)... and then there is that human element, the one where plenty of you appear to have the beatific patience and clarity of order that appears to elude me when trying to cook dinner, help with homework, reflect on the Orwellian murk of the work world, and all I want to do is play dat tune. Admitted, it is that inefficient, short tempered, petulance (me) that once repaired a NAD cassette player drive unit with the rubber ring off a condom (student times); and the NAD carried on to play seamlessly for another ten years. Wouldn't happen now of course, (neither of the afore mentioned items being a part of my life anymore), but the point remains.

Don't get me wrong, I am not giving up on the the 're-boot stuff', I like it too, espcially when it works. I just need a reliable alternative when I need a quick fix of music.

so... I am hearing this at the moment:

"Don't get a 1K transport", get something more like the Cambridge CXC CD transport which will work well with my DAC. (Is this coming from people who see no future in the CD: cut your losses type opinion?)

"Invest in a dedicated streamer" !?!?! What on earth.... ? Well, yes, might be a good idea. Question is, will this also work with a 'not too brilliant' internet connection? Will the streamer also play my HD files? ITunes thingie... what? More Apple gear? Can't stand all that swipieness, gives me a headache and makes me socially intolerant.

"Its yer own silly fault!" Yes, agreed, part of the fun no doubt. *drinks* However, all the non-re-boot stuff I chose (amp, speakers, cables, DAC) is stunning. All good choices there, and made with the help of this forum! *clapping*

Pyramus

?

 

I told yeah!

Take your money and look at the best players within your budget and bite the bullet.

A CD player with a usable DAC you could find useful.

Like the audiolab 8200cd - now replaced by the 8300, I'm sure good deals are around its floating around the £500 or less price bracket - leave you change to get quality interconnects.

Don't be swayed man.

 

[Pyramus]

Thanks again all.

A Sunday afternoon at home confirmed my worst fears again. All 3 kids (and the wife, and even two of the cats by the looks of it) streaming off the WIFI: ergo - no connection. Restart the box (amidst cries of 'What the hell!?!?' "Doom!' "Devastation" "I hate you!" "I was adpoted!!!"

Never one to waste time, I revert to my second source: the Sony NWZ plugged into Thor, (The Hammer Of God Eloectrocompaniet Ye Gods I love this ampliphier!!!!)

Thank you Vladimir - may your place at Valhalla be assured for putting me and the hammer together!

As an aside, I would love to run the NWZ through my DAC, but can't find a quality cable to do this with. Oh, what's this? Darn, I can't because the tracks I tranferred to the NWZ yesterday are on the internal Sid card... can't find it on the menu (another wave of "I am useless washes over me).

I wait again for the WIFI to re-boot, searching for my music on the laptop's hard drive in the meantime. Damn, it is on my backup from the last time my Macbook pro had to wiped. Where is the back-up? (More useless vibes). Oh, the Wifi is up again... but the Soundcloud won't open.

Then it occurs to me... Eureka! I walk over to the shelf and take a CD. I shove it into the MacBook. And it.... no it doesn't play. Not yet. It is now opening iTunes. Waiting... waiting...., it pops up, great, I press return. NO! Too soon... it is now importing the CD. Nevermind, I am sure I can play it anyway...., no I cant.... (Player exits the game....)

My upstairs neighbour is doing an 80's revival afternoon, its now "Girls just wanna have fun." No, it doesn't sound better through the ceiling. In desperation I ask my son to put on Major Lazer through the portable BOSE speaker I bought for the holidays last year. It works, and drowns out Cyndi in a mass of bassy bombast.

I think the above description of studied ineptness serves only to illustrate how bady I need to return to the 1990's, and get myself a decent CD transport. I don't disagree that the re-boot tech works for some of you. It just doesn't work for me (yet?). I think I am going to spend some money on a box with takes discs, and sit like a little boy over Christmas ogeling its Audiolab, or Musical Fidelity lines, and like a catatonic 80's victim, watching the silver stuff spin and drooling over the album art: do they even still do that?

My only hope is that when I emerge from my troglodite CD state, like Zaratrustra from his cave (in about ten years) that someone has produced an affordable product that can play and display music in high quality from chips and the cloud... at the press of a buttton, with no wait no delay, no reboot, no comprimise.

Hold on... what about that vinyl collection I inherited from my grandfather.... ?

 

[CnoEvil]

I might be considered pedantic, but it was actually me who first suggested looking at Electrocompaniet...though I'm happy for Vladimir to get all the credit. *angel*

If you want good 2 Channel, I'd look at a Linn Sneaky DS, which I think would sound great in your system.

 

[Vladimir]

I might be considered pedantic, but it was actually me who first suggested looking at Electrocompaniet...though I'm happy for Vladimir to get all the credit. *angel*

Yup. I just googled up a good deal on it. Team effort at spending other people's money.

 

[MajorFubar]

...is my advice. You won't find me telling you records and CDs are a waste of time. Definitely have their place. But equally you won't find me feeding you stupid old ******** that your PC or Mac through a decent DAC is never going to sound as good as a CD player, unlike some members here. Bottom line is, if streaming solutions just aren't working for you for whatever reason, by all means bite the bullet. I'm not convinced you need to spend a grand though.

 

[Pyramus]

How remiss of me - CnoEvil - Thank you so much, your advice has been sage. I do love that amp! Thank you both!!!

MajorFubar, agreed. I am looking at the Audiolab M-CDT priced at 500 Euros, should work well with my DAC. The Musical Fidelity at 800 and the Project at 1k are very tempting, but since starting this thread, I have gone off the idea of pouring a lot of cash into a CD transport, when there seem to be excellent options about for far less. Indeed, I have never grumbled about sound quality off my hard-disk. Just about getting to listen to it.

I shall put in an order for Master Audiolab next week when I get back to civilisation. Unless there are any other suggestions....

 

[Pyramus]

Hi Cno Evil

Is that a CD player?

Pyramus.

 

[Pyramus]

I see, it is a, let me get this right, Network Music Player... so I am guessing it plays streamed music, but can you also keep your music files on it too? I can't see any mention of that on the Linn page.

 

[Ajani]

I see, it is a, let me get this right, Network Music Player... so I am guessing it plays streamed music, but can you also keep your music files on it too? I can't see any mention of that on the Linn page.

I'm not sure about the Linn, but there are several streamers that will allow you to plug in your USB hard drives directly. So you could bypass your computer and your wireless connection. So that should solve the issues you are currently facing. With your budget you could get one of those streamers and a CD transport as backup / a fun alternative.

 

[Pyramus]

Hmmmm... Ajani. An interesting proposition.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

...is my advice. You won't find me telling you records and CDs are a waste of time. Definitely have their place. But equally you won't find me feeding you stupid old ******** that your PC or Mac through a decent DAC is never going to sound as good as a CD player, unlike some members here. Bottom line is, if streaming solutions just aren't working for you for whatever reason, by all means bite the bullet. I'm not convinced you need to spend a grand though.

I say.... Steady on there Major..... :-D