why am not not getting the bass need ? which part is letting me down ?

[admin_exported]

i listern to old school and drum and bass and an i am just not getting the bass i would like

my system is

krell kav500i + kef reference 2.2 + marantz cd63se + chord epic + Chameleon Silver plus

regards stuart

 

[Thaiman]

Are you Bi-amp using Kav500i outputs?

I couldn't believe you found Krell's bass light! No one can do bass like Krell imo.

 

[Tear Drop]

What sort of bass would you like? High quality, deep bass is impossible to achieve without paying attention to the quality of your mains. Also, get rid of silver cabling - the worst enemy of bass in my experience.

 

[drummerman]

I am starting to more than wonder about you mate. You keep posting the same thing again and again, quite a few people here gave you some constructive advise and what do you do ... come back with the same question. Piss taker or not, its getting tedious. I hope I am not on my own with this opinion.

 

[Anonymous]

no i am not taking the piss

if you look you will see that i was asking about the krell kav 300/400/500 and now i have bought the kav500i and then i asked about speaker cable and was told by 9/10 to buy epic which i did and it still sounds bass light to me

so know i am asking if any body knows where i might be going wrong.

so please if you have not got anything to say other then things about you own self importance dont bother drummerman

regards stuart

i hope i am not on my own with this option ( someone make it so and back me up lol )

 

[Anonymous]

i am using 1 in to 2 as the amp does not have 4 out puts only 2 so they made them go from 2 in to 4 on the back of the speakers

 

[drummerman]

You either have no sense or to much money though personally I still think you are taking the piss. If I'm wrong I apologize. Try and listen to some stuff before buying. Might get you somewhere.

 

[Craig M.]

not getting involved in the above. how far are you sat from your speakers? you need to be sat some distance from your speeks to hear low bass at its correct volume. something to do with the long wavelength if i remember right.

 

[PJPro]

drummerman:I am starting to more than wonder about you mate. You keep posting the same thing again and again.....[snip]

Bit like the DAC Magic then! I'mmmm onnnnlyyyy jokinnnnggg!

 

[Anonymous]

drummerman i have both the money and the sence

i am not taking the piss

i wish i had the bass i was after

as for listening how can i do that with speaker cable before i buy it and of course with my speakers and then with my room

15 x 25ft and i am at one end the stereo at another

all i meant was are my speakers the week link or the cd player or the cable in your option .

it is nice to hear all your replys and i do take on board everthing said and i am not bothered what people think if i am not sure i was al was told to ask and that is what i am doing

so thank you all in advance

including you drummerman

 

[drummerman]

Lets try again. According to TM your amplifier should have no problems. I don't know your speakers but modern Kef's are neutrally balanced compared to some other manufacturers, hence a lot of comments of 'no scale' (they have plenty but bass is tightly delineated and fast) so there may be an issue there. I don't think the way your cables are routed is either a problem or especially advantageous. If I understand correctly you are driving bi-wireable speakers with two runs from the same amplifier speaker terminals. I'm sure the Krell has no problem with that but personally I would just use a good, purpose made pair of jumper leads and one run to the amplifier. Before you say you are going to bi-amp or use mono blocks (because you have the money) this will most likely extend the bass but at the same tighten it. So you may feel you have even less.

Your cdp is passe ok. I know they still have a die hard following but it really has no place in a system this quality and whilst it was a great product in its day it sounds (to me at least) bloated, veiled and in-precise. Its called a lot jiiter my friend. By the the way I used to have the sig version a long long time ago. You could change that to a good modern player such as the higher range cyrus, Arcam, CA, Quad, Lyngdorf or aim even higher but again one of the improvements you'll usually find is better (and with it tighter) bass. What that does is subjectively tightening up lower frequencies which in turn, and once again, can come over as less bass where in effect its just more acurate.

Cables ... I wont go there.

Room; After all those posts and spending money I would hope you've tried every conceivable position and exhausted all possibilities.

That leaves us with a sub. I'm pretty sure we've mentioned that before to you. This will give you the flexibility of moving it around for best positioning and the necessary controls to integrate and match up to your main speakers whose basic tonality I would assume you like because you have'nt mentioned changing them. I am now totally convinced of using a well matched sub for audio. It has multiple benefits and can both tighten up loose bass or add a solid foundation (even bloom if that floats your boat) to systems which are short changed in that respect. There are further benefits through the mid's and it can even balance a wayward treble and bring it in line subjectively. You're obviously a bass head so make sure its nicely big, heavy and with a driver the size of an umbrella. If your dog or cat can enter through the port and feel at home inside you've probably found your size.

Did I forget anything?

 

[Anonymous]

Is it in phase?

 

[drummerman]

a4quattro:Is it in phase?

 

[the record spot]

Cables: I will - I won't say you need to spend £000s on them, but if you DO have silver cable, try out copper core instead (DNM, or Nordost and similar). It made a huge difference in my system at the weekend. It didn't rob the system of other characteristics, but I changed one component - which was van den hul to Nordost - and the bass appeared where previously it had been lean and somewhat lacking.

You don't have to buy the cable either, as your dealer will in all likelihood let you try at home; all you do is leave your card details so he has some insurance in case you do a runner. No big deal and you can at least try it out at home and see for yourself, with your own gear in your own room.

 

[Anonymous]

thnak you all very much lol

 

[up the music]

I've been following your threads with interest and some confusion.

The phase question had occured to me. Do experiment with speaker and listening positions. Silvered speaker cables add shine to my tweeters but I'd avoid them for bass. You definitely need a change of CD player IMHO but you seem defensive about your current player.

I think you'd reap the greatest bass benefit from a big beefy sub Velodyne DD18 or similar.
Better still, box off one end of your room and fill the cavity with Shiva's or some other top quality sub drivers, feed them with some expensive beefy studio amp and 2 (maybe 3) Velodyne SMS1's for sub management/EQ.

 

[drummerman]

number1hifi:
thnak you all very much lol

I just can't take this guy serious. Looking forward to the next thread ... 'changed CD player to Audio Research, still no better bass, listening to house and drumms ...'

 

[the record spot]

Doubt he needs a sub - he's got KEF Reference 2's! He could maybe condense his threads into one though; that'd be a start....!

Two words - Cerwin Vega.

 

[up the music]

I've not heard but believe the KEF bass to be clean, fast and tight. KEF specs suggest a -3dB at 45Hz though. That's hardly plumbing the depths. Or are KEF being conservative here?

Check these photos for a big sub:-
http://www.royaldevice.com/customita3.htm
I guarantee that will provide more than enough bass.

Incidentally, does anybody else find it odd that having gone to these lengths with the speaker side, the above site uses a Thorens TD160 as vinyl source? I hope it's well isolated from it's environment.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with uponthemusic here:

Your KEF's are rated down to 45Hz, to give you an idea, the bottom E string on a correctly tuned bass guitar is tuned to 41.204Hz. Now I listen to my fair share of bangin drum n bass and I can tell you they plenty often go well below that frequency. Basically, you're not going to be reproducing those frequencies with much power.

To top that off, you 15ftx25ft room has a lower bass mode of 38hz (diagonal room length 8.7m, speed of sound 340m/s Velocity=freq. x wavelenth) This means that your room will comfortably set up standing waves of this frequency and above, which will have the percieved affect of 'drowning out' the lower frequency bass that you're after.

In short, I reccomend new speakers not that your KEF's aren't damn fine speakers to begin with but you're obviously a bass fiend.. and one with some cash too. A cheaper option would be a subwoofer but that might not end up working the way you want. Take your kit (which I hope you've given time to run in already before passing judgment on the bass) and listen to the platinum range from monitor audio. The Pl-300's are £5000 rrp but if you want bass, they are rated down to 28hz. There are not many speakers that go that low in any price range.

 

[Anonymous]

I'll just add, about phase..

Easy way to check everything is in phase is to rig up a sine wave generator (use an audio package on your pc/laptop) and throw a medium volume sinewave at about one or two Hz through your speakers. That way you can clearly see if all your cones are moving forward at the same time. That's how I spotted one of my bass drivers being phase inverted, bloody cheap interconnects! (rectified

 

[chebby]

Checking for correct phase is a lot easier than that.

Play some music (medium volume is sufficient) and have both speakers facing each other - baffle to baffle - just a few inches apart.

Change the polarity of one set of speakers only. When the sound is louder it is in correct phase, when it is quiet the phase is incorrect.

The difference will be dramatic.

 

[Anonymous]

Previous posts have pointed out the need to get lower bass frequencys into the room, 28hz required I think.

With any quality system you won't get the full benefit out of it (musicality, detail, separation, a real feel of involvement with what's being played) without going to some lengths in cleaning up the mains supply.

If you are happy with your Kefs, buy a decent sub that has the speed and timing to complement them, and get the speaker crossovers upgraded with Clarity Caps, the difference should astound you.

 

[Thaiman]

Mr_Poletski:I agree with uponthemusic here:

Your KEF's are rated down to 45Hz, to give you an idea, the bottom E string on a correctly tuned bass guitar is tuned to 41.204Hz. Now I listen to my fair share of bangin drum n bass and I can tell you they plenty often go well below that frequency. Basically, you're not going to be reproducing those frequencies with much power.
To top that off, you 15ftx25ft room has a lower bass mode of 38hz (diagonal room length 8.7m, speed of sound 340m/s Velocity=freq. x wavelenth) This means that your room will comfortably set up standing waves of this frequency and above, which will have the percieved affect of 'drowning out' the lower frequency bass that you're after.
In short, I reccomend new speakers not that your KEF's aren't damn fine speakers to begin with but you're obviously a bass fiend.. and one with some cash too. A cheaper option would be a subwoofer but that might not end up working the way you want. Take your kit (which I hope you've given time to run in already before passing judgment on the bass) and listen to the platinum range from monitor audio. The Pl-300's are £5000 rrp but if you want bass, they are rated down to 28hz. There are not many speakers that go that low in any price range.

I happen to agree on everything written above. I did mention before when OP ask question about the kef (one of many similar question but never mind, we are friendly bunch here) that the Kef will NOT give you the so call seismic bass where you can feel the air shifting. My ART can produce that low freq no problem (-25 Hz) so Usher Dancer series (-28 Hz) and Talon (-18 Hz).

 

[Dan Turner]

I'm auditioning an Arcam CD37 as I type and have pretty much decided to buy one - bass is this thing's strength, so recommend you try one. The difference between this and your Marantz (i used to own one) is just huge (in every respect, not just the bass). Although I would say that in your system you should probably spend even more on a CDP, £3k would not seem disproportionate in the context of the amp and speakers.

As far as a sub goes, again It may do the trick, but only if you have a CD player that can serve up the bass in the first place, and you'd also have to buy something very serious indeed in order not to sound slow and disconnected from your speakers.

On the cable front, for the best bass you want something multi-stranded with a large cross section (i.e. a 'fat cable' if you'll excuse the expression) - low capacitance, low resistance, high inductance = the easy flow of current to your speakers, which is what you want. Take a punt on some Van Damme 6mm LC-OFC speaker cable; costs peanuts but sounds fantastic to me; bass being a particular strength.