Whither tone controls?

[plastic penguin]

Darren Heal:bobbyg81:

Matthewpiano.

You may have seen it but if not this looks like it maybe worth a punt. Someother member may know about how it actually sounds.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Technics-SU-Z2-classic-70s-amplifier-VU-meters-2x35w_W0QQitemZ130373047223QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers?

hash=item1e5ad6d3b7

Had to put the end of the link on another line. You couldn't see it because of that stupid advert on the right!

A picture:

My dad had one of those, also bought in the 70s. Hooked up to a mid/high end Technics turntable (not the 1200 sadly) and a pair of Wharfedales (REAL Wharfdales).

Finally tossed it in the mid 90s when the volume knob rheostat was so worn out you couldn't find a spot it would actually work on.

Or this - absolutely fabulous with Wharfedale speakers and a Garrard turntable....

 

[matthewpiano]

Further to this topic I have been reading some old equipment reviews from the 70s on the Gramophone website and it is interesting to see how different the attitude was to tone controls and the like back then. The whole approach was more about enjoying the music, whatever that meant.

I think we have disappeared up our own hi-fi back-sides in the last 20 years and become obsessed with drab boxes with barely more than a volume control and source selector adorning them. We have got tangled up in a quest to expose every detail of our recordings, only to find that some then become hard to listen to because they weren't well engineered in the first place. I have even read some people suggesting that they actually choose their listening material to get the best out of their hi-fi!!

I have come to the conclusion that I am not, actually, an 'audiophile' at all. I've challenged myself to put together a system of relatively cheap and cheerful pieces from the 70s and 80s - something akin to the first system which helped me to discover so much music. I've got an amp and some speakers on the way, and I'm close to getting the other bits that I want. All my other stuff is going and my second system will then take on a similar format. I will reveal all once it is up and running.

 

[drummerman]

matthewpiano:bobbyg81:I hear you about the Technics but it seems to be in almost new condition if the description is to be believed.

It does look very nice... Think I will keep my eye on it. Thanks bobbyg81.

 

[matthewpiano]

drummerman:
matthewpiano:bobbyg81:I hear you about the Technics but it seems to be in almost new condition if the description is to be believed.

It does look very nice... Think I will keep my eye on it. Thanks bobbyg81.

Didn't go for it in the end DM. I've got something else on the way which I reckon you will frown at just as much though and it is 30 years old and Japanese. Completely un-fashionable brand, but IMO they made excellent amplifiers.

 

[Johnno2]

matthewpiano:Further to this topic I have been reading some old equipment reviews from the 70s on the Gramophone website and it is interesting to see how different the attitude was to tone controls and the like back then. The whole approach was more about enjoying the music, whatever that meant. I think we have disappeared up our own hi-fi back-sides in the last 20 years and become obsessed with drab boxes with barely more than a volume control and source selector adorning them. We have got tangled up in a quest to expose every detail of our recordings, only to find that some then become hard to listen to because they weren't well engineered in the first place. I have even read some people suggesting that they actually choose their listening material to get the best out of their hi-fi!! I've challenged myself to put together a system of relatively cheap and cheerful pieces from the 70s and 80s - something akin to the first system which helped me to discover so much music. I've got an amp and some speakers on the way, and I'm close to getting the other bits that I want. All my other stuff is going and my second system will then take on a similar format. I will reveal all once it is up and running.

Agreed,tone controls are a must imo,if a recording is thin and bright and the purists say thats how it should sound then sod them. If I prefere to turn the bass up to add some warmth and colour and make it more enjoyable whats wrong with that? I hate thin and bright. Despite my system having a big warm sound naturaly, some cd's still sound thin and need bass boost,I rarely need to adjust the treble though

 

[drummerman]

matthewpiano:drummerman:
matthewpiano:bobbyg81:I hear you about the Technics but it seems to be in almost new condition if the description is to be believed.

It does look very nice... Think I will keep my eye on it. Thanks bobbyg81.

Didn't go for it in the end DM. I've got something else on the way which I reckon you will frown at just as much though and it is 30 years old and Japanese. Completely un-fashionable brand, but IMO they made excellent amplifiers.

Nothing wrong with japanese in general. I use some at the mo.

 

[the record spot]

matthewpiano:
Didn't go for it in the end DM. I've got something else on the way which I reckon you will frown at just as much though and it is 30 years old and Japanese. Completely un-fashionable brand, but IMO they made excellent amplifiers.

Sansui after all then eh MP?

 

[Anonymous]

the record spot:matthewpiano: Didn't go for it in the end DM. I've got something else on the way which I reckon you will frown at just as much though and it is 30 years old and Japanese. Completely un-fashionable brand, but IMO they made excellent amplifiers. Sansui after all then eh MP?

don't think so .... could be something like the older Trio (Kenwood) or perhaps JVC (both very good)

 

[matthewpiano]

The good Sansui amps are a bit steep for me at present. Like Pioneer, Sansui have really been highly lauded amongst users of vintage gear so the prices have tended to move up accordingly.

Actually dim_span hit on the 2 brands I was very seriously considering. In the end I've gone for one of the JVC Super-A amps. I've heard quite a few early 80s JVCs and I've always liked their sound so it is a pretty safe bet. JVC have ended up being very under-rated IMO and it has helped to keep the vintage prices very affordable. Will report back once it has arrived and I've had chance to do some listening.

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:The good Sansui amps are a bit steep for me at present. Like Pioneer, Sansui have really been highly lauded amongst users of vintage gear so the prices have tended to move up accordingly. Actually dim_span hit on the 2 brands I was very seriously considering. In the end I've gone for one of the JVC Super-A amps. I've heard quite a few early 80s JVCs and I've always liked their sound so it is a pretty safe bet. JVC have ended up being very under-rated IMO and it has helped to keep the vintage prices very affordable. Will report back once it has arrived and I've had chance to do some listening.

good amp matthew! ... my best mate had one in the 80's connected to some old yamaha speakers and a Linn LP12 .... keep us posted

 

[idc]

matthewpiano:Further to this topic I have been reading some old equipment reviews from the 70s on the Gramophone website and it is interesting to see how different the attitude was to tone controls and the like back then. The whole approach was more about enjoying the music, whatever that meant. I think we have disappeared up our own hi-fi back-sides in the last 20 years and become obsessed with drab boxes with barely more than a volume control and source selector adorning them. We have got tangled up in a quest to expose every detail of our recordings, only to find that some then become hard to listen to because they weren't well engineered in the first place. I have even read some people suggesting that they actually choose their listening material to get the best out of their hi-fi!! I have come to the conclusion that I am not, actually, an 'audiophile' at all. I've challenged myself to put together a system of relatively cheap and cheerful pieces from the 70s and 80s - something akin to the first system which helped me to discover so much music. I've got an amp and some speakers on the way, and I'm close to getting the other bits that I want. All my other stuff is going and my second system will then take on a similar format. I will reveal all once it is up and running.

Another cracking post mattthew, even though I am the complete opposite and look for minimal and detail. Will there be pictures of your new latest setup?

 

[matthewpiano]

idc - Yes, I'm going to take some photos and stick them on here once everything is up and running.

 

[Anonymous]

When I was young, I wanted nothing but enjoy the amplifier tone controls, and I did not even realize why my father had not used them in his excellent sound system - indeed, previously prepared at home by a technician. At this time I wanted to sound and more sound. Today, with 47 years old, I can assure you that my ears remain as good as before. Was it not, therefore, due to flaws in the hearing that I started to use more and more rarely the tone controls on the amplifier. At present, I just not use them. And this regardless of the level of the system sound or the size of the room where it is installed.

And why? First, probably because of a personal taste. Secondly, because if, as is the case between the CD player and a turntable, the tone controls offer more sound than if we do not use it, it is no less true that "more sound" is not exactly equivalent to "better sound." In other words, the tone controls are, in my opinion, not a factor of dis-twisting sound, but they can give it some kind of colour. They amplify the sound, which is invading us on all sides, but prevent its realism. Consequently, there are less detail. When I'm listen on my system, obviously I only can aproach myself to the feeling of listening to the spot that is being played. That is, I want to be in the front row of the room where the concert is been given. With the tone controls, I'm too far away from the stage, but listen to a higher volume of sound. In other words, the feature corresponds to the tone controls a little to try to color a picture originally produced in black and white.