Whither tone controls?

[manicm]

chebby:

manicm:I still believe tone controls, no matter how well implemented, introduce distortion and muddle the sound when used.

When I used to have the Arcam Solo-Mini I used to use it's tone controls just a little. Have you tried it on yours?

I'm not missing any treble, and I'm not missing any bass. What I am missing is some dynamism through the iPod. So how are the tone controls going to help me?

Not saying tone controls don't work for others, just haven't found a use for them myself.

I'll give another example; in hindsight it was probably system mismatch, but I bought a NAD C521i CD player (addded very soon after I bought a Pioneer DVD player which was I initially thought was too bright for music but later loved it) and had horrible sibilance.

So I reduced the treble which reduced the sibilance but that also reduced the clarity and transparency - so the tone controls didn't fix anything.

Like anything else tone controls are horses for courses - just not mine.

 

[PJPro]

Just add this?

Logitek 4VUB Rackmount Analog VU Meter w/Phase Check, A Scale

 

[chebby]

Any VU meter 'plugins' for iTunes?

 

[Anonymous]

manicm:chebby:

manicm:I still believe tone controls, no matter how well implemented, introduce distortion and muddle the sound when used.

When I used to have the Arcam Solo-Mini I used to use it's tone controls just a little. Have you tried it on yours?

I'm not missing any treble, and I'm not missing any bass. What I am missing is some dynamism through the iPod. So how are the tone controls going to help me?

Not saying tone controls don't work for others, just haven't found a use for them myself.

I'll give another example; in hindsight it was probably system mismatch, but I bought a NAD C521i CD player (addded very soon after I bought a Pioneer DVD player which was I initially thought was too bright for music but later loved it) and had horrible sibilance.

So I reduced the treble which reduced the sibilance but that also reduced the clarity and transparency - so the tone controls didn't fix anything.

Like anything else tone controls are horses for courses - just not mine.

no wonder ... you are using an ipod? ... you will most prob find that you have 'mediocre' speakers aswell ...

 

[manicm]

igglebert:The Quad tilt control offered on their preamps from the 33 to the 99 are very good. There's nothing wrong with them and they're useful when the source material demands a tonal tweak. I struggle to understand why the pursuit of absolute neutrality is more important than enjoying the music. Do people have studio master recordings to listen to? I imagine that many manufacturers omit tone controls due to added cost, especially as they need to be implemented with high quality components.

But that's my point igglebert - it's horses for courses - to me neutrality is more musical - and my take is if a recording is bad in the first place (Pink Floyd Animals LP = yay, CD = nay) then to my mind the most elaborately constructed tone controls is not going to do a thing.

Which brings me to your next point - yes perhaps makers omit tone controls because of cost (I don't think so cos it's typically higher-end amps which omit it), but I'd rather they spend the extra money in getting the essentials right than investing in something which I find superfluous.

 

[matthewpiano]

chebby:Any VU meter 'plugins' for iTunes?

Squeezebox 3 has a VU meter display option and its pretty good as well.

 

[manicm]

dim_span:manicm:chebby:

manicm:I still believe tone controls, no matter how well implemented, introduce distortion and muddle the sound when used.

When I used to have the Arcam Solo-Mini I used to use it's tone controls just a little. Have you tried it on yours?

I'm not missing any treble, and I'm not missing any bass. What I am missing is some dynamism through the iPod. So how are the tone controls going to help me?

Not saying tone controls don't work for others, just haven't found a use for them myself.

I'll give another example; in hindsight it was probably system mismatch, but I bought a NAD C521i CD player (addded very soon after I bought a Pioneer DVD player which was I initially thought was too bright for music but later loved it) and had horrible sibilance.

So I reduced the treble which reduced the sibilance but that also reduced the clarity and transparency - so the tone controls didn't fix anything.

Like anything else tone controls are horses for courses - just not mine.

no wonder ... you are using an ipod? ... you will most prob find that you have 'mediocre' speakers aswell ...

Not an atypical response from some here who frequently jump to conclusions isn't it?

Well even through CD I would prefer a bit more dynamism. And I have an iPod touch to an acclaimed dock - the rDock.

And yes I have mediocre speakers - B&W 685s to be specific.

 

[Anonymous]

I have an amp with tone controls and to summarize:

if the synergy between your amp/cdp/speakers and cables are not to your personal liking, you can set the controls to compensate .... i.e. you dont have to buy a new interconnect, or new speakers or a new amp or a new cdp

tone controls are great, especially if you have a good amp

 

[Anonymous]

manicm:dim_span:manicm:chebby:

manicm:I still believe tone controls, no matter how well implemented, introduce distortion and muddle the sound when used.

When I used to have the Arcam Solo-Mini I used to use it's tone controls just a little. Have you tried it on yours?

I'm not missing any treble, and I'm not missing any bass. What I am missing is some dynamism through the iPod. So how are the tone controls going to help me?

Not saying tone controls don't work for others, just haven't found a use for them myself.

I'll give another example; in hindsight it was probably system mismatch, but I bought a NAD C521i CD player (addded very soon after I bought a Pioneer DVD player which was I initially thought was too bright for music but later loved it) and had horrible sibilance.

So I reduced the treble which reduced the sibilance but that also reduced the clarity and transparency - so the tone controls didn't fix anything.

Like anything else tone controls are horses for courses - just not mine.

no wonder ... you are using an ipod? ... you will most prob find that you have 'mediocre' speakers aswell ...

Not an atypical response from some here who frequently jump to conclusions isn't it?

Well even through CD I would prefer a bit more dynamism. And I have an iPod touch to an acclaimed dock - the rDock.

And yes I have mediocre speakers - B&W 685s to be specific.

calm down ... just winding you

 

[Anonymous]

Man, vu meters, tone controls, switches that do this, switches that do that, if your at a concert and the first song sounds great then it gets you in the mood for the rest of the gig. If the second song doesn,t sound as clear as the first, you don,t stop the band in full flight and ask them to adjust the volume, settings, tone etc on their gear. Is this not just another search for the wholly grail of musical perfection, which has never been and will never be found. Personally, i prefer to just put on my amp, pre-amp, load a disc and sit back and enjoy, not listening out for any nuances that could sound better. Matthew, why don,t you save up a bit and by a sugden masterclass spa-4, 75 watts of pure heaven, then you should be a happy bunny ( forever ).

 

[Anonymous]

Matthewpiano.

You may have seen it but if not this looks like it maybe worth a punt. Someother member may know about how it actually sounds.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Technics-SU-Z2-classic-70s-amplifier-VU-meters-2x35w_W0QQitemZ130373047223QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers?

hash=item1e5ad6d3b7

Had to put the end of the link on another line. You couldn't see it because of that stupid advert on the right!

 

[Anonymous]

bobbyg81:

Matthewpiano.

You may have seen it but if not this looks like it maybe worth a punt. Someother member may know about how it actually sounds.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Technics-SU-Z2-classic-70s-amplifier-VU-meters-2x35w_W0QQitemZ130373047223QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers?

hash=item1e5ad6d3b7

Had to put the end of the link on another line. You couldn't see it because of that stupid advert on the right!

C'mon MP....you just got to have a punt on this. .....If I didnt have amps all over the place , I would be in there like the proverbial rat up a drainpipe.........

 

[Anonymous]

If I wasnt skint I'd be having a go. Its not often you see one with original box and manuals in such good condition. I seen one of these with a dodgy leftchannel go for £30. Not got a clue about this one though.

 

[Anonymous]

Check out the sellers cd player auction aswell!!

That would make a nice looking setup!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Philips-CD100-the-original-CD-player-box-and-manual_W0QQitemZ130373047711QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_CDPlayerSeparates?

hash=item1e5ad6d59f

Again had to put the link on seperate lines!

 

[Anonymous]

here would be my choice .... newly listed on ebay

Pioneer spec 1 and spec 2 pre-amp and power amp .... 250 watts @ 8 Ohms ...

start price on £500 ... will be a steal at £800 .... a bit expensive but worth it

 

[Anonymous]

bobbyg81:

Matthewpiano.

You may have seen it but if not this looks like it maybe worth a punt. Someother member may know about how it actually sounds.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Technics-SU-Z2-classic-70s-amplifier-VU-meters-2x35w_W0QQitemZ130373047223QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers?

hash=item1e5ad6d3b7

Had to put the end of the link on another line. You couldn't see it because of that stupid advert on the right!

A picture:

My dad had one of those, also bought in the 70s. Hooked up to a mid/high end Technics turntable (not the 1200 sadly) and a pair of Wharfedales (REAL Wharfdales).

Finally tossed it in the mid 90s when the volume knob rheostat was so worn out you couldn't find a spot it would actually work on.

 

[Anonymous]

Cheers Darren.

Dim_span those pioneers look great. Oh to have the money kicking around!

Does the wee one really need to go to uni and learn bad habits?

Damn, I suppose he does!

 

[Anonymous]

The Technics is only rated at 22 watts @ 8 ohms ... (class B) .... (I may be wrong) .... if it is 22 watts then it will have to be partnered very carefully with speakers

 

[Anonymous]

If I was Matthew Id play it safe and go for the Pioneer pre-power then!

 

[Anonymous]

bobbyg81:

Cheers Darren.

Dim_span those pioneers look great. Oh to have the money kicking around!

Does the wee one really need to go to uni and learn bad habits?

Damn, I suppose he does!

I think Matthew needs those Pioneers ... all his 'woes' will be sorted .... sadly, they may sell for approx £800 (considering that a good SA-9800 fetches approx £600 nowadays)....

but will still a bargain at £800 as they have recently been serviced/calibrated ....

 

[Anonymous]

I think we all need those Pioneers!

 

[the record spot]

I see there's a certain Sansui amp on the 'bay just now...good opening bid price, looks like it's in decent condition (bar a couple of minor dings). Not, not my one, but one very very like it...

 

[matthewpiano]

Those Pioneers look lovely but out of my league sadly. Nice to see them though dim_span!

The Technics is a very good suggestion. My only reservation is reliability/build quality with Technics. Reading around, problems with switches/volume controls don't seem all that uncommon.

And RS - I am watching a few things on Ebay at present and that is one of them. ;-)

 

[Anonymous]

I hear you about the Technics but it seems to be in almost new condition if the description is to be believed.

 

[matthewpiano]

bobbyg81:I hear you about the Technics but it seems to be in almost new condition if the description is to be believed.

It does look very nice... Think I will keep my eye on it. Thanks bobbyg81.