Whither tone controls?

[matthewpiano]

Characteristically excellent posts from RS and igglebert.

I've just secured the heart of my new set-up. All I'm saying at present is that it is silver, has tone controls, has VU meters, and has a loudness switch. It is also about as old as I am. More details when it arrives, but it looks like a beauty.

 

[Anonymous]

Too kind sir.

So what is it Matt? Sansui? Giss'a another clue...

 

[Anonymous]

Just spotted your signature *blush*

 

[matthewpiano]

No, not Sansui on this occasion.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry to add another complexion to this discussion but isn't adding a sub to a hifi just another 'tone control' for the bass....

 

[plastic penguin]

I've always believed that amps with tone controls has an advantage. The sad truth is once you get above £800 there is very few companies that use tone controls, and try to convince us that the sound quality is improved by a purer signal if an amp omits these controls. Fiddle-faddle.

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:Characteristically excellent posts from RS and igglebert. I've just secured the heart of my new set-up. All I'm saying at present is that it is silver, has tone controls, has VU meters, and has a loudness switch. It is also about as old as I am. More details when it arrives, but it looks like a beauty.

Ooooh ... Is it a Luxman, or a Pioneer?

 

[matthewpiano]

dim_span:
matthewpiano:Characteristically excellent posts from RS and igglebert. I've just secured the heart of my new set-up. All I'm saying at present is that it is silver, has tone controls, has VU meters, and has a loudness switch. It is also about as old as I am. More details when it arrives, but it looks like a beauty.

Ooooh ... Is it a Luxman, or a Pioneer?

If only I had the money for a Luxman!!

 

[RodhasGibson]

chebby:

Assuming they are intelligently designed using good quality components then why not?

They used to be 'respectable' enough for the award winning Audiolab 8000a and the Quad 34 and 44 preamps. (I think Quad still have tone adjustments on their 99 series preamp)

Not all speakers are 100 percent ideal in every room even if they are well chosen and a good match. Not all albums are masterpieces of the recording engineer's craft! Sometimes a little judicious 'tweak' might be desirable to adjust for a harsh recording or a less than ideal room acoustic.

So why not? Why are so few good amps (especially above the budget-level) posessed of the ability to adjust the sound?

Withyou on this one Chebby and have half a reel of QED 79 Strand which will be put to good use shortly.

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:dim_span:

matthewpiano:Characteristically excellent posts from RS and igglebert. I've just secured the heart of my new set-up. All I'm saying at present is that it is silver, has tone controls, has VU meters, and has a loudness switch. It is also about as old as I am. More details when it arrives, but it looks like a beauty.

Ooooh ... Is it a Luxman, or a Pioneer?

If only I had the money for a Luxman!!

I still check ebay daily for a Luxman bargain .... none around at the moment ... and prices seem to be going higher ... am hoping to find one at a carboot sale

 

[Anonymous]

The undisputed fact is that any component will have an effect on the sound. What you have to decide is if that effect is good or bad. I have tone controls on my upstars gear and I use them. There isnt any on my downstairs stuff but I am happy.....

What you rarely see is a description of how tone controls are implemented. Not all amps completely bypass them when you switch them out (if that is an option) and consequently you will never see a completely clean signal path. I think the Yamaha shown earlier makes a big deal on how they do it and it would be worth some reading (again) to gain an understanding of their methods.

EDIT....a quick look shows they are wired in parallel which at first glance and without any more info would appear to be the best way of doing it. They can be switched out / bypassed completely

 

[idc]

Cracking thread and great rant matthew. The couple of amps I have had with tones controls made little difference and I found the sound more to my liking using bypass. Play Trim on a Yamaha cassette deck was invaluable, as well as the various dolby settings. The ability to tweek the sound in as many ways possible to find happiness has got to be a good thing, particularly for matthew!

 

[matthewpiano]

Well the new acquisition has fallen through. It was a Pioneer SX690 receiver, re-capped and serviced, but the seller has tested it again before sending and found a fault so refunded my payment. Shame, because it looked really nice, but I'm very thankful for the seller's honesty.

The search begins again! (when Paypal finally release the refunded money back to me!!)

 

[idc]

Sorry to hear that matthew.

 

[JoelSim]

matthewpiano:Well the new acquisition has fallen through. It was a Pioneer SX690 receiver, re-capped and serviced, but the seller has tested it again before sending and found a fault so refunded my payment. Shame, because it looked really nice, but I'm very thankful for the seller's honesty.The search begins again! (when Paypal finally release the refunded money back to me!!)

Keep your eye on it being relisted.

 

[Anonymous]

On the subject of VU meters, I was talking to the geezer that runs the audio cable business next door to Holburn Hifi in Aberfreeze last year about the quality of contemprary CD recordings, how they sound flat and somwhat shrill - mixed, no doubt, for iPod and commercial (compressed signal) FM radio broadcast.

He noted that "new stuff" has the VU meters on his old Chord power amps (forgive me if I get that wrong) hardly moving, whereas "older" recordings have them bouncing along to the music quite nicely.

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:Well the new acquisition has fallen through. It was a Pioneer SX690 receiver, re-capped and serviced, but the seller has tested it again before sending and found a fault so refunded my payment. Shame, because it looked really nice, but I'm very thankful for the seller's honesty.

The search begins again! (when Paypal finally release the refunded money back to me!!)

Sorry to hear that Matthew. I'm a recent convert to the old Pioneers (SA 506, with all the knobs and VU meters), and I'm happier than ever with my hifi. I've actually decided to sell the PM 4001 it replaced... Good luck with your search!

 

[matthewpiano]

Jack White:
matthewpiano:Well the new acquisition has fallen through. It was a Pioneer SX690 receiver, re-capped and serviced, but the seller has tested it again before sending and found a fault so refunded my payment. Shame, because it looked really nice, but I'm very thankful for the seller's honesty.

The search begins again! (when Paypal finally release the refunded money back to me!!)

Sorry to hear that Matthew. I'm a recent convert to the old Pioneers (SA 506, with all the knobs and VU meters), and I'm happier than ever with my hifi. I've actually decided to sell the PM 4001 it replaced... Good luck with your search!

Cheers! Glad the SA-506 is working out. I had an SA-508 for a while a couple of years ago and its one amp that I very much regret selling.

I'm open to quite a few options - Pioneer, Sansui, Kenwood/Trio, JVC, Akai, Yamaha. Basically all the great Japanese manufacturers. I'm not rushing. I pounced on that SX-690 because it looked so good. There will be others!

 

[Anonymous]

What Joel said......

 

[Johnno2]

matthewpiano: So my next kit will be old. It will have tone controls and a loudness switch. It might even have VU meters or flouroscan.

You forgot the rumble and scratch buttons

 

[Anonymous]

Take your time Matthew ... loads of really good bargains around, especially the 'not so common brands' ... everything happens for a reason, and you will most prob get a much better amp than the Pioneer for a bargain price

check this Michaelson Audio Oddyseus ....45 watts (class A mode) tube integrated which was over $2000 in the early 90's, not many were manufactured and got some very good reviews ... may be a bargain?

 

[matthewpiano]

Nice amp dim_span but not the sort of thing I want. Moving away from the minimalist British stuff and back to the big Japanese battleships, though nothing as expensive as the SA9800 at this moment in time.

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:Nice amp dim_span but not the sort of thing I want. Moving away from the minimalist British stuff and back to the big Japanese battleships, though nothing as expensive as the SA9800 at this moment in time.

good luck Matthew ... keep us posted ... don't just look on ebay ... search gumtree aswell (better bargains there than ebay) ... and you can collect and check it out before paying (i.e.if you search your local gumtree)

 

[matthewpiano]

Nice amp dim_span but not the sort of thing I want. Moving away from the minimalist British stuff and back to the big Japanese battleships, though nothing as expensive as the SA9800 at this moment in time.

 

[manicm]

Yes, give me VU displays over tone controls any day