I'm connecting my blu ray player to my Denon amp for surround sound (no HDMI so no HD audio). Which is the best way to connect the 2 in order for me to play blu ray, dvd, and cd's ? Should i connect 5.1 channel out cables, or digital out cable (optical or co-axial) ? Thanks for any advise.
Which audio connection for Panasonic BD-30
- Thread starter stevee1966
- Start date
PJ1200
Well-known member
Is that correct??
I'm confused now! I didn't think the BD-30 could decode any HD audio onboard? It sent it all bitstream, for a suitable HD Amp to decode (which your Denon amp will not do - also like my Denon amp!)
To quote the maual:
"Regarding high specification audio (7.1ch) of BD-Video such as Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio and DTS-HD Master Audio (?? 21)
- they can be reproduced in the original format only when connected to a compatible amplifier/receiver with a HDMI AV OUT terminal (?? 7) and when "BD-Video Secondary Audio" is set to "Off" and "Bitstream" is selected in each format.
- they are output only as Dolby Digital bitstream when "BD-Video Secondary Audio" is set to "On" even when the unit is connected using the HDMI AV OUT terminal.
- they are output only as Dolby Digital or DTS bitstream (depending to the original format) when the unit is connected using the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT terminal."
Am I missing something?
Sorry if I'm being stupid (highly probable!)
I'm confused now! I didn't think the BD-30 could decode any HD audio onboard? It sent it all bitstream, for a suitable HD Amp to decode (which your Denon amp will not do - also like my Denon amp!)
To quote the maual:
"Regarding high specification audio (7.1ch) of BD-Video such as Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio and DTS-HD Master Audio (?? 21)
- they can be reproduced in the original format only when connected to a compatible amplifier/receiver with a HDMI AV OUT terminal (?? 7) and when "BD-Video Secondary Audio" is set to "Off" and "Bitstream" is selected in each format.
- they are output only as Dolby Digital bitstream when "BD-Video Secondary Audio" is set to "On" even when the unit is connected using the HDMI AV OUT terminal.
- they are output only as Dolby Digital or DTS bitstream (depending to the original format) when the unit is connected using the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT terminal."
Am I missing something?
Sorry if I'm being stupid (highly probable!)
professorhat
Well-known member
Nope, anything encoded in one of the main new HD formats will just come through as the standard Dolby Digital or DTS 5.1 mix. However, if the Blu-Ray disc has the original PCM soundtrack (which quite a few do now, in my collection anyway), i.e. it is unencoded, this will come through the analogue outputs fine. For this reason, it's best to use the 5.1 analogue outputs.
[quote user="professorhat"]Nope, anything encoded in one of the main new HD formats will just come through as the standard Dolby Digital or DTS 5.1 mix. However, if the Blu-Ray disc has the original PCM soundtrack (which quite a few do now, in my collection anyway), i.e. it is unencoded, this will come through the analogue outputs fine. For this reason, it's best to use the 5.1 analogue outputs.[/quote]
The more i read, the more confused i become with all the different audio formats, and the best method for setting these up.
The BD-30 manual (and labelled on the connectors on the back of the player) says only the 'Digital Outputs' can be used for PCM and Bitstream, yet people on here (admittedly with far more knowledge than myself) say use the Analogue cables for PCM uncompressed sound.
I don't get it. I have played Ratatouille with 5.1 Dolby Digital and 5.1 uncompressed sound chosen from the movie options menu. Using the 5.1 Ext In source on my receiver, only "Ext In DVD" is displayed but when using the Digital Source, initially "Stereo DVD" is displayed on my receiver, but i can manually change this to "Dolby Pro Logic II Cinema" and then "PLII C DVD", "Pro-Logic", and "Digital" are all displayed.
Surely Digital is the better quality sound, or am i off the mark again.
Why can't all of this equipment, in this day and age, just automatically select the best quality sound source from the disc, and run it through the best connection option on the player to the tv, with the cables that are connected.
I'm really getting ****** with this, and the manuals are no help at all unless you already know how all the different audio formats differ (and if you know that then you don't need the manuals anyway).
The more i read, the more confused i become with all the different audio formats, and the best method for setting these up.
The BD-30 manual (and labelled on the connectors on the back of the player) says only the 'Digital Outputs' can be used for PCM and Bitstream, yet people on here (admittedly with far more knowledge than myself) say use the Analogue cables for PCM uncompressed sound.
I don't get it. I have played Ratatouille with 5.1 Dolby Digital and 5.1 uncompressed sound chosen from the movie options menu. Using the 5.1 Ext In source on my receiver, only "Ext In DVD" is displayed but when using the Digital Source, initially "Stereo DVD" is displayed on my receiver, but i can manually change this to "Dolby Pro Logic II Cinema" and then "PLII C DVD", "Pro-Logic", and "Digital" are all displayed.
Surely Digital is the better quality sound, or am i off the mark again.
Why can't all of this equipment, in this day and age, just automatically select the best quality sound source from the disc, and run it through the best connection option on the player to the tv, with the cables that are connected.
I'm really getting ****** with this, and the manuals are no help at all unless you already know how all the different audio formats differ (and if you know that then you don't need the manuals anyway).
beater
Well-known member
I don't beleive it, there is someone out there as stupid as me! It's uncanny but I am having exactly the same problem as you mate, with virtually the same equipment so can someone please answer in plain english and tell me exactly what settings I need to be on both the bd30 and the denon amp to get pcm!
Panasonic th50px70
Panasonic bd30
Denon 1906
KEF 1005's
Panasonic th50px70
Panasonic bd30
Denon 1906
KEF 1005's
Ok then people, so how do i do this ?
I've got my BD-30 connected to my plasma by HDMI for picture and tv audio. I then have the choice of connecting either Digital cable, or 5.1 Analogue cables, or both for surround sound audio (i currently have both)
1. Which is the better option ? Some have said the Analogue cables for PCM (i thought analogue could only do Dolby Digital ???), while my blu ray manual says use Digital cable for PCM and Bitstream.
2. Why isn't my receiver displaying the type of audio being played when i play through analogue cables, just AUX IN ?
3. Why does my receiver only play in STEREO when playing through Digital cable, unless i manually change the setting to Dolby Pro Logic ? I never had this problem when using my Denon dvd, it would automatically play and display DOLBY PRO LOGIC.
Is there a "What Hi-Fi best practice" type document anywhere that can give a guide as to all the different sound formats, which are the best, and which ones can be played through which connectors ? It would be most welcome
Any info appreciated, though factual advise would be most welcome !!!!
I've got my BD-30 connected to my plasma by HDMI for picture and tv audio. I then have the choice of connecting either Digital cable, or 5.1 Analogue cables, or both for surround sound audio (i currently have both)
1. Which is the better option ? Some have said the Analogue cables for PCM (i thought analogue could only do Dolby Digital ???), while my blu ray manual says use Digital cable for PCM and Bitstream.
2. Why isn't my receiver displaying the type of audio being played when i play through analogue cables, just AUX IN ?
3. Why does my receiver only play in STEREO when playing through Digital cable, unless i manually change the setting to Dolby Pro Logic ? I never had this problem when using my Denon dvd, it would automatically play and display DOLBY PRO LOGIC.
Is there a "What Hi-Fi best practice" type document anywhere that can give a guide as to all the different sound formats, which are the best, and which ones can be played through which connectors ? It would be most welcome
Any info appreciated, though factual advise would be most welcome !!!!
Not sure how but i've just got 'ANALOGUE' and 'PRO LOGIG' displayed on my receiver when playing the blu ray through the 5.1 channels
Only problem being, is that there's no sound coming out of my speakers !!!!
Only problem being, is that there's no sound coming out of my speakers !!!!
professorhat
Well-known member
Hi there
I've been following this thread, hoping someone with superior knowledge to me might answer it, but alas no! Since I contributed to some of the confusion here, I do feel honour bound to try and find out the true answer here! This is what I've read on the DMP-BD30 which made me post my original post:
Like all Blu-ray players, the BD30's Coaxial and Optical S/PDIF outputs can be used to transmit standard Dolby Digital and DTS audio, or PCM up to 2-channels. Advanced codecs such as Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD cannot be transmitted over S/PDIF and will be downconverted to standard Dolby or DTS using those connections.The player also has 5.1 analog outputs useful once again for standard Dolby Digital or DTS, as well as PCM 5.1 soundtracks.
In a major disappointment, the BD30 does not incorporate DD+, TrueHD, or DTS-HD decoding, as Panasonic's prior DMP-BD10 model did. The feature was likely left out to meet the lower price point. As a result, this means that those advanced codecs cannot be decoded internally for output over the 5.1 analog connections in full quality. As with S/PDIF, they will be downconverted to standard Dolby or DTS. This also applies to the HDMI output if connected to an A/V receiver by any version of HDMI up to and including 1.2a.
Source was here.
Now, I will try and research this further to find out what the settings should be to get this to work! I'll post again when I have more info (though I am supposed to be working at the moment!!)
I've been following this thread, hoping someone with superior knowledge to me might answer it, but alas no! Since I contributed to some of the confusion here, I do feel honour bound to try and find out the true answer here! This is what I've read on the DMP-BD30 which made me post my original post:
Like all Blu-ray players, the BD30's Coaxial and Optical S/PDIF outputs can be used to transmit standard Dolby Digital and DTS audio, or PCM up to 2-channels. Advanced codecs such as Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD cannot be transmitted over S/PDIF and will be downconverted to standard Dolby or DTS using those connections.The player also has 5.1 analog outputs useful once again for standard Dolby Digital or DTS, as well as PCM 5.1 soundtracks.
In a major disappointment, the BD30 does not incorporate DD+, TrueHD, or DTS-HD decoding, as Panasonic's prior DMP-BD10 model did. The feature was likely left out to meet the lower price point. As a result, this means that those advanced codecs cannot be decoded internally for output over the 5.1 analog connections in full quality. As with S/PDIF, they will be downconverted to standard Dolby or DTS. This also applies to the HDMI output if connected to an A/V receiver by any version of HDMI up to and including 1.2a.
Source was here.
Now, I will try and research this further to find out what the settings should be to get this to work! I'll post again when I have more info (though I am supposed to be working at the moment!!)
The best option is to connect the BD-30 to an A/V Amplifier or A/V Reciever via HDMI in order to get all the audio codecs in their correct format.
However, if this is not possible, say where you have an A/V Amplifier or A/V Receiver that doesn't have an HDMI connection (or one that has an HDMI but doesn't decode all HD formats), then you have two other options.
(1) PHONO 5.1 ANALOGUE connections will pass standard Dolby Digital 5.1*, standard DTS 5.1 Surround* and PCM 5.1 surround to a suitably equipped A/V Amplifier or A/V Reciever.
(2) OPTICAL / COAXIAL digital connections will pass standard Dolby Digital 5.1, standard DTS 5.1 Surround and PCM Stereo to a suitably equipped A/V Amplifier or A/V Reciever.
As a matter of personal choice, we have both PHONO 5.1 ANALOGUE and OPTICAL connected simultaneously. We use the 5.1 ANALOGUE for PCM 5.1 soundtracks and the OPTICAL for regular Dolby Digital / DTS Surround soundtracks. We consider that our Yamaha DSP-AX750SE A/V Amplifier has excellent decoding abilities for DD / DTS. The BD-30 converts the Dolby TrueHD to Dolby Digital and DTS-HD to DTS Surround - even these sound fabulous, especially DTS!
However, if this is not possible, say where you have an A/V Amplifier or A/V Receiver that doesn't have an HDMI connection (or one that has an HDMI but doesn't decode all HD formats), then you have two other options.
(1) PHONO 5.1 ANALOGUE connections will pass standard Dolby Digital 5.1*, standard DTS 5.1 Surround* and PCM 5.1 surround to a suitably equipped A/V Amplifier or A/V Reciever.
(2) OPTICAL / COAXIAL digital connections will pass standard Dolby Digital 5.1, standard DTS 5.1 Surround and PCM Stereo to a suitably equipped A/V Amplifier or A/V Reciever.
As a matter of personal choice, we have both PHONO 5.1 ANALOGUE and OPTICAL connected simultaneously. We use the 5.1 ANALOGUE for PCM 5.1 soundtracks and the OPTICAL for regular Dolby Digital / DTS Surround soundtracks. We consider that our Yamaha DSP-AX750SE A/V Amplifier has excellent decoding abilities for DD / DTS. The BD-30 converts the Dolby TrueHD to Dolby Digital and DTS-HD to DTS Surround - even these sound fabulous, especially DTS!
That's certainly made things a bit clearer for me.
Thanks for the info guys (and any more that can be offered would be most welcome).
Thanks for the info guys (and any more that can be offered would be most welcome).
The best option is to connect the BD-30 to an A/V Amplifier or A/V Reciever via HDMI in order to get all the audio codecs in their correct format.
However, if this is not possible, say where you have an A/V Amplifier or A/V Receiver that doesn't have an HDMI connection (or one that has an HDMI but doesn't decode all HD formats), then you have two other options.
(1) PHONO 5.1 ANALOGUE connections will pass standard Dolby Digital 5.1*, standard DTS 5.1 Surround* and PCM 5.1 surround to a suitably equipped A/V Amplifier or A/V Reciever.
(2) OPTICAL / COAXIAL digital connections will pass standard Dolby Digital 5.1, standard DTS 5.1 Surround and PCM Stereo to a suitably equipped A/V Amplifier or A/V Reciever.
As a matter of personal choice, we have both PHONO 5.1 ANALOGUE and OPTICAL connected simultaneously. We use the 5.1 ANALOGUE for PCM 5.1 soundtracks and the OPTICAL for regular Dolby Digital / DTS Surround soundtracks. We consider that our Yamaha DSP-AX750SE A/V Amplifier has excellent decoding abilities for DD / DTS. The BD-30 converts the Dolby TrueHD to Dolby Digital and DTS-HD to DTS Surround - even these sound fabulous, especially DTS!
However, if this is not possible, say where you have an A/V Amplifier or A/V Receiver that doesn't have an HDMI connection (or one that has an HDMI but doesn't decode all HD formats), then you have two other options.
(1) PHONO 5.1 ANALOGUE connections will pass standard Dolby Digital 5.1*, standard DTS 5.1 Surround* and PCM 5.1 surround to a suitably equipped A/V Amplifier or A/V Reciever.
(2) OPTICAL / COAXIAL digital connections will pass standard Dolby Digital 5.1, standard DTS 5.1 Surround and PCM Stereo to a suitably equipped A/V Amplifier or A/V Reciever.
As a matter of personal choice, we have both PHONO 5.1 ANALOGUE and OPTICAL connected simultaneously. We use the 5.1 ANALOGUE for PCM 5.1 soundtracks and the OPTICAL for regular Dolby Digital / DTS Surround soundtracks. We consider that our Yamaha DSP-AX750SE A/V Amplifier has excellent decoding abilities for DD / DTS. The BD-30 converts the Dolby TrueHD to Dolby Digital and DTS-HD to DTS Surround - even these sound fabulous, especially DTS!
professorhat
Well-known member
Okay, have had a chance to read through the manual now - what a labourious process - Panasonic really need to sort out who translates the manuals into English as it's about as complicated as I think they can make it! Firstly, to answer your initial questions:
[quote user="stevee1966"]The BD-30 manual (and labelled on the connectors on the back of the player) says only the 'Digital Outputs' can be used for PCM and Bitstream[/quote]
I'm pretty sure when it talks about the PCM here, it means 7.1 channel PCM not 5.1. Page 8 of the manual (labelled F) describes how to connect up using the 5.1ch AUDIO OUT outputs, stating under the "TV / Device Connection" setting, the "Speaker" setting should be set to "Mulit-Channel" and the "HDMI Output" setting should be set to "Off" (page 24 of the manual). As far as I can tell, all other settings should be left as default. It actually says on this page NOTE - 7.1 channel disc is mixed down to 5.1 channel audio which is why I think it's talking about 7.1 when it says you can only get this from digital out, as to get 7.1, you'd have to be sending audio out as bitstream via the HDMI socket.
[quote user="stevee1966"]Why isn't my receiver displaying the type of audio being played when i play through analogue cables, just AUX IN ?[/quote]
Because the Blu-Ray player is actually doing all the processing in this instance (when using the 5.1 channel output), the amp doesn't know what the original signal started out as. So this should just be displaying something like PCM, or Multichannel sound or some such (depending on the Denon).
[quote user="stevee1966"]Why does my receiver only play in STEREO when playing through Digital cable, unless i manually change the setting to Dolby Pro Logic ? I never had this problem when using my Denon dvd, it would automatically play and display DOLBY PRO LOGIC.[/quote]
I think the settings need to be different if you are only hooking up via the digital cable (be it optical or coaxial). Still on page 8 of the manual, connection G shows the digital out connection and says the settings for this should be, under the "Sound" setting, "Digital Audio Output" should be set to "Bitstream" and the "BD-Video Secondary Audio" setting set to "Off" (page 23 of the manual). Also, under the "TV / Device Connection" setting, the "HDMI Output" setting should be set to "Off" (page 24 of manual). Hopefully, with those set, you should then get the correct Dolby Digital / DTS signal being received in your amplifier and this should display accordingly.
Phew - I have to say, that manual is ridiculously complicated so I have no idea if what I've said above is correct - it's just my interpretation of it! Without a BD30 of my own to test on, I can't say, but give this a try and let me know how it goes!!
[quote user="stevee1966"]The BD-30 manual (and labelled on the connectors on the back of the player) says only the 'Digital Outputs' can be used for PCM and Bitstream[/quote]
I'm pretty sure when it talks about the PCM here, it means 7.1 channel PCM not 5.1. Page 8 of the manual (labelled F) describes how to connect up using the 5.1ch AUDIO OUT outputs, stating under the "TV / Device Connection" setting, the "Speaker" setting should be set to "Mulit-Channel" and the "HDMI Output" setting should be set to "Off" (page 24 of the manual). As far as I can tell, all other settings should be left as default. It actually says on this page NOTE - 7.1 channel disc is mixed down to 5.1 channel audio which is why I think it's talking about 7.1 when it says you can only get this from digital out, as to get 7.1, you'd have to be sending audio out as bitstream via the HDMI socket.
[quote user="stevee1966"]Why isn't my receiver displaying the type of audio being played when i play through analogue cables, just AUX IN ?[/quote]
Because the Blu-Ray player is actually doing all the processing in this instance (when using the 5.1 channel output), the amp doesn't know what the original signal started out as. So this should just be displaying something like PCM, or Multichannel sound or some such (depending on the Denon).
[quote user="stevee1966"]Why does my receiver only play in STEREO when playing through Digital cable, unless i manually change the setting to Dolby Pro Logic ? I never had this problem when using my Denon dvd, it would automatically play and display DOLBY PRO LOGIC.[/quote]
I think the settings need to be different if you are only hooking up via the digital cable (be it optical or coaxial). Still on page 8 of the manual, connection G shows the digital out connection and says the settings for this should be, under the "Sound" setting, "Digital Audio Output" should be set to "Bitstream" and the "BD-Video Secondary Audio" setting set to "Off" (page 23 of the manual). Also, under the "TV / Device Connection" setting, the "HDMI Output" setting should be set to "Off" (page 24 of manual). Hopefully, with those set, you should then get the correct Dolby Digital / DTS signal being received in your amplifier and this should display accordingly.
Phew - I have to say, that manual is ridiculously complicated so I have no idea if what I've said above is correct - it's just my interpretation of it! Without a BD30 of my own to test on, I can't say, but give this a try and let me know how it goes!!
Firstly, sorry for the two identical replies earlier! I did them at work - our network is so slow, I thought the original reply has disappeared into cyberspace! Professorhat - Totally agree, the Panasonic manual is far too complicated and possibly even misleading in some cases? We have the DIGITAL (optical or could apply to coaxial) set to BITSTREAM. The appropriate A/V amplifier or receiver should show DOLBY DIGITAL or DTS SURROUND STANDARD or something similar. When we use the 5.1 PHONOS, the Yamaha shows up as MULTI CH. INPUT* (as you say, the A/V amplifer is getting an analogue signal so it wouldn't know what the format is anyway). * The multi channel input has to be physically selected as an independent input. Although we have both 5.1 PHONOS and OPTICAL connected, we have the HDMI audio set to ON. This does at least give us the option of using the speakers on the TV, which we occasionally do. We assume that if we used the HDMI via suitably equipped A/V amplifier or receiver, then all this would change, especially, the secondary audio settings!! That's a particular minefield we will have to negotiate when we upgrade our Yamaha A/V amplifier. Regular Dolby Digital and especially DTS Surround sound really good on the BD-30, so we're in no hurry to upgrade! That said, Yamaha have just announced their 2008 range! Wow, you can get HDMI / HD audio for as little as £499 (DSP-AX763)! Hmmm, we're tempted! There is also the DSP-AX863SE for around £799. Yamaha have also returned to producing black products too! There are also DSP-AX563, DSP-AX463 and RX-V363 numbered products. DSP = A/V amplifier and RX = A/V Receiver. DAB has been dropped in favour of their separate tuner. A dedicated tuner input has been added to all DSPs.
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