Improving TV audio

[mattij]

Dear all, I have the following:

TV: LG OLED 55"
Integrated Amp: Arcam A65
CD player: Arcam CD62
Turntable with phono stage
DVD player
B&W DM603S2 speakers
Chromecast audio (Spotify Premium.....yes I know....)

Currently my TV audio connects to my amp with an RCA cable from the headphone jack at the rear. My question relates to improving TV audio.

- TV has HDMI eARC output but my amp has no input for this
- TV has optical output but again my amp has no input for this

I was looking at using the optical out from TV to a DAC, then into my amp.
Then I thought why not get a streamer with a DAC, and use Optical out from TV into streamer, then into amp. And I also have a streamer.

I called Richer Sounds and they thought this is a bit convoluted, and suggested a combined amp/streamer e.g. Cambridge Audio EVO 75 or 150.
My problem is that I'm happy with my Arcam kit, the EVO doesn't have enough inputs for my kit, and I don't think a combined amp/streamer will be as good quality as my analogue amp.

What would you do?
Cheers,
Matt

PS I can pick up the Cambridge Audio CXN V2 for just over 600 quid.....

 

[mattij]

Your CD player has coaxial and optical digital inputs and, you can select the appropriate input using the remote control, so you should be able to use it's DAC for the TV. I would at least try that to see how well it works.

https://www.arcam.co.uk/ugc/tor/diva-cd62-t-cd-player/User%20Manual/cd62e_manual.pdf

Thanks for getting back so quick. I saw this suggestion online, but unfortunately my CD player only has optical digital output from what I can see, no input. Cheers

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

If you want to go the streamer = DAC route, also consider the WiiM Pro / Pro Plus as they have optical in (and a third of the price of the Cambridge). Other alternative is a CYP-AU D3 DAC which would be an inexpensive way of bridging the two.

 

[daytona600]

Ampster TV II is utterly brilliant used in the manner in which Tangent intends and it has an excellent HDMI ARC implementation.

Tangent Ampster TV II Review

Review of the Tangent Ampster TV II amplifier - the company's TV focused integrated amplifier

www.avforums.com

Wiim Amp Integrated Amplifier Review

Review of the WiiM Amp, the company's first integrated streaming amplifier

www.avforums.com

 

[jjbomber]

I called Richer Sounds and they thought this is a bit convoluted, and suggested a combined amp/streamer e.g. Cambridge Audio EVO 75 or 150.
My problem is that I'm happy with my Arcam kit, the EVO doesn't have enough inputs for my kit, and I don't think a combined amp/streamer will be as good quality as my analogue amp.

What would you do?
Cheers,
Matt

I would avoid that Richer Sounds to start with! They sell the WiiM Pro Plus and that is the perfect solution. So why did they try to sell you something you don't want? Well, Richer Sounds own Cambridge Audio. That person was selling what is best for the store, not what is best for you. So I would buy the Wiim Pro Plus from somewhere else. Peter Tyson online would be my choice, but I have no idea what shops are close to where you live.

 

[nopiano]

I think you need something called an ARC Audio Extracter. I see there are several for around £30 on Amazon, and doubtless other places too.

As the name implies, it takes the audio signal from your LG telly, and converts it to analogue outputs, or optical if that suits. In your case you’ll need a spare input on your Arcam amp from the RCA outputs and you’re done. I’d be checking the lengths of the various connections you’ll need, and those I’ve seen require you to provide the mains charger.

Please check for yourself, however. I am looking myself as I’m in a similar boat. We have an old sound base that does not lip sync with our newish LG OLED telly (2021 model), even though the previous LG (2011 model) worked perfectly. Apparently the ARC connection is what I need to use, but the sound base predates that design.

I would welcome input from anyone using such a device, or can confirm I’m barking up the correct tree.

 

[mattij]

If you want to go the streamer = DAC route, also consider the WiiM Pro / Pro Plus as they have optical in (and a third of the price of the Cambridge). Other alternative is a CYP-AU D3 DAC which would be an inexpensive way of bridging the two.

I think you need something called an ARC Audio Extracter. I see there are several for around £30 on Amazon, and doubtless other places too.

As the name implies, it takes the audio signal from your LG telly, and converts it to analogue outputs, or optical if that suits. In your case you’ll need a spare input on your Arcam amp from the RCA outputs and you’re done. I’d be checking the lengths of the various connections you’ll need, and those I’ve seen require you to provide the mains charger.

Please check for yourself, however. I am looking myself as I’m in a similar boat. We have an old sound base that does not lip sync with our newish LG OLED telly (2021 model), even though the previous LG (2011 model) worked perfectly. Apparently the ARC connection is what I need to use, but the sound base predates that design.

I would welcome input from anyone using such a device, or can confirm I’m barking up the correct tree.

very useful thanks...I'm veering towards one of these extractors....I also like the look of the iFi Zen Air...Cheers

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

I have the HD Fury Arcana "Arc Extractor" which takes my signal (FireTV) and splits it into image (projector) and sound (soundbar). A fantastic piece of kit, but not cheap.

Given your TV has an optical output; and you'll be listening in stereo (making surround sound redundant) I'd suggest the CYP aproach is better VFM.

 

[nopiano]

very useful thanks...I'm veering towards one of these extractors....I also like the look of the iFi Zen Air...Cheers

Yes, ifi make some great stuff, but surely that model doesn’t connect to your TV, does it? If it does, which connection are you using?

 

[My2Cents]

I love the way Richer Sounds just went straight for the £1,100 / £2,000 route! Good salesman... he probably mentioned the 'spread the cost' payment method too!
The little DAC's on Amazon for around $30 (or equivalent £'s) work well, some of them (e.g. Mii BO3 at around £70) even have decent ESS DAC's in them... however, with this particular model, if you feed it an optical signal it can only output an optical signal, so be careful!
Unfortunately the 'lip sync' problem can surface no matter what gear you use and is often dependent on the TV, it can even occur when using eHDMI.
Personally I would just try a WiiM pro and see if you get lip sync issues with your TV (you can always return it if your concience doesn't object).
I mostly listen to my TV through headphones and have a cheap DAC connected to the TV's optical out and use the little DAC's headphone out... good quality sound (with some old Bose QC 35's) and no lip sync issues (and my neighbors are happy too).
ARC (audio return channel) is a type of HDMI which allows the 'extractor unit' to seperate the audio from the picture signal. The cheap little DAC's on Amazon (like the one I use) are not actually ARC extractors as they are simply taking the optical audio out and converting it to analog.

 

[mattij]

Yes, ifi make some great stuff, but surely that model doesn’t connect to your TV, does it? If it does, which connection are you using?

Tnx. I'm on a steep learning curve here...I think I'm going with nopiano's recommendation and just going for something simple like the below - this gives me options on HDMI ARC out, or optical out.....I understand that as i'm kicking to stereo amp, not surround sound, optical probably suffices. Matt

Amazon.co.uk

 

[nopiano]

Tnx. I'm on a steep learning curve here...I think I'm going with nopiano's recommendation and just going for something simple like the below - this gives me options on HDMI ARC out, or optical out.....I understand that as i'm kicking to stereo amp, not surround sound, optical probably suffices. Matt

Amazon.co.uk

That’s the type of product i think will work. Ironically, after posting last night, i reconnected my Canton sound base with the optical link and it seemed fine. But i was assured previously that eARC is the more dependable route. However, I note @My2Cents cautionary tale above, for which many thanks.

 

[mattij]

That’s the type of product i think will work. Ironically, after posting last night, i reconnected my Canton sound base with the optical link and it seemed fine. But i was assured previously that eARC is the more dependable route. However, I note @My2Cents cautionary tale above, for which many thanks.

OK....so I'm still figuring this out....and thanks @My2Cents for the post - how do you even know that optical in will only give optical out!?? I'm still of a mind to have a unit which will accept both ARC and optical from my TV (may have surround sound in the future), and kick RCA to my stereo amp. At a minimum, something which takes optical input and RCA out. Where does leave me in terms of choice. Thanks for all this guys, and sorry for all the questions! Matt

 

[nopiano]

OK....so I'm still figuring this out....and thanks @My2Cents for the post - how do you even know that optical in will only give optical out!?? I'm still of a mind to have a unit which will accept both ARC and optical from my TV (may have surround sound in the future), and kick RCA to my stereo amp. At a minimum, something which takes optical input and RCA out. Where does leave me in terms of choice. Thanks for all this guys, and sorry for all the questions! Matt

The suggestion I made in post #6 was after finding an ‘extractor’ on Amazon for about £33. It had eARC input and three output choices. I’m not sure I see why you’d want optical in and out at the same time, as nothing is being extracted! You may as well connect as I’ve done - one optical lead from tv to sound base.

The point of the extractor cum DAC is surely to convert to analogue stereo, or take eARC input to optical output (my case)?

This is the one I saw, but I’m not recommending it - more that it is simply an example of which there are various permutations. https://amzn.eu/d/7UykHr1

 

[My2Cents]

OK....so I'm still figuring this out....and thanks @My2Cents for the post - how do you even know that optical in will only give optical out!?? I'm still of a mind to have a unit which will accept both ARC and optical from my TV (may have surround sound in the future), and kick RCA to my stereo amp. At a minimum, something which takes optical input and RCA out. Where does leave me in terms of choice. Thanks for all this guys, and sorry for all the questions! Matt

Hi Matt,
The 1Wii BO3 (which is not an ARC extractor, just a DAC Bluetooth xmitter/receiver) apparently advertises itself as having a unique feature, quote from their product description:
"1. - Splitter for Wired and Wireless
B03 supports you to hear from wireless headphones and wired Speakers / sound bar at the same time. This allows the headphone user to listen at a different volume level when watching TV with families; a perfect solution for family use.
NOTE: This function only works with the same type of input / output. i.e. the input of B03 with aux audio cable, then please make sure the output of B03 also with aux audio cable. Or OPT input to OPT output."

I've noticed with these products that it's a bit of a minefield. I'm guessing that if not used in wired/wireless 'splitter' mode the optical in and analog out can be used, but they way they describe their product features is somewhat confusing?

 

[Fandango Andy]

Dear all, I have the following:

TV: LG OLED 55"
Integrated Amp: Arcam A65
CD player: Arcam CD62
Turntable with phono stage
DVD player
B&W DM603S2 speakers
Chromecast audio (Spotify Premium.....yes I know....)

Currently my TV audio connects to my amp with an RCA cable from the headphone jack at the rear. My question relates to improving TV audio.

- TV has HDMI eARC output but my amp has no input for this
- TV has optical output but again my amp has no input for this

I was looking at using the optical out from TV to a DAC, then into my amp.
Then I thought why not get a streamer with a DAC, and use Optical out from TV into streamer, then into amp. And I also have a streamer.

I called Richer Sounds and they thought this is a bit convoluted, and suggested a combined amp/streamer e.g. Cambridge Audio EVO 75 or 150.
My problem is that I'm happy with my Arcam kit, the EVO doesn't have enough inputs for my kit, and I don't think a combined amp/streamer will be as good quality as my analogue amp.

What would you do?
Cheers,
Matt

PS I can pick up the Cambridge Audio CXN V2 for just over 600 quid.....

If you are in the market for a streamer, the WiiM Pro Plus has optical in that will work for you. There are some notes about lip-synch. The WiiM has an auto latency set-up, I think you can manage it manually too, if not you should be able to do it with on the TV.

If you decide not to bother with a streamer, you could just get a DAC. There are options with HDMI inputs which will be better that optical.

 

[JPWolf]

I very much enjoy streaming using my LG OLED TV with TIDAL thru ROKU Ultra. This works for me because I can get music videos, some of which are truly awesome when combined with the high-quality TIDAL audio that complements the whole experience. By the way, over the last two weeks (April 2024) TIDAL has pulled their customer account management away from ROKU but you can still use the TIDAL app on your TV seamlessly as before, you just end up opening an account directly with TIDAL.

When I started out trying to stream music from my TV, I noticed that there are no RCA jacks for audio out. First, I tried running the audio straight from the headphones jack on back of the TV into RCA jacks. While it’s mechanically possible to do this, the resulting sound output was thin and without the best detail, probably because of cheap components in the TV headphone audio circuit.

Next, I hooked up an optical cable to the digital sound output on the TV and ran it thru a DAC, in this case a Schiit MODI 3E, and that improved things quite a bit. I ran that way for a while but it still wasn’t quite as good as I thought it should be.

Finally, I found a cheap audio extractor that I had laying around and hooked it up (J-Tech JTDATSCH, about $20 on Amazon). In essence this allows me to bypass the TV entirely for my audio by going straight from the ROKU via HDMI cables to the extractor to the DAC via optical cables and then to the RCA jacks. The HDMI is still going to the TV after passing thru the audio extractor (which is set on “Pass Thru”). I notice no deterioration whatever of the TV picture which does HDR and I can now get high-definition sound with the amazing OLED picture.

The biggest improvement in sound is the overall detail and depth plus the equalization is now completely different. There is wonderful amount of richness including accurate low and mid-bass that wasn’t there before and I ended up having to undo some tweaking on my EQ that I needed before for my previous attempts at hooking up to the TV.

On a side note, the Schiit MODI DAC also has a digital cable RCA jack that can be connected to the digital output of a Blu-Ray DVD player, which can then serve as a decent way to play CDs not depending on the audio from the built-in DAC in the DVD player. That way it can be left hooked up with the TV plugged into the optical digital output of the DAC using the switch on he DAC itself to route which sound source to use.

Anyway, the total outlay for this solution is comparatively modest (except for the TV) and yet it can provide a reasonably priced way for a lot of folks hesitating to spend big money on music streaming components and then trying to synchronize them with their TV. This method is well integrated with the TV and using the ROKU interface it can provide a reasonably simple dual-purpose system that can be used for serious music and home theater streaming. With a different more expensive audio extractor (priced up to maybe $100) you can do your multiple-speaker surround sound although I’m partial to sticking with the properly mixed 2-channel stereo program with a sub which is great for serious music and gets you a reasonably convincing HT experience. Your mileage may vary. 😊