WHF equipment rack reviews

[Vladimir]

This thread is a classic example unfounded cynicism. Not one of you has "listened" to the rack in question but you are all dismissing the WHF review as foo. An unwavering belief in the "facts" has left you guys as closed to new experience as the subjectivist is closed to the facts. Walk the middle ground guys. It is a happy place.

You're wasting your time Gazzip. This is the reason these forums have become boring, rigid and unpleasant. Hardly anyone dares to post anymore for fear of unfounded and undeserved ridicule.

If I post on a popular car forum that I purchased green stripes that improve fuel efficiency I'll get ridicule from one camp and support from other. This forum is nothing different than any other in that respect. If you see a forum where everyone agrees with eachother, ask if there is a mass suicide ritual scheduled at some point in time.

 

[Gazzip]

This thread is a classic example unfounded cynicism. Not one of you has "listened" to the rack in question but you are all dismissing the WHF review as foo. An unwavering belief in the "facts" has left you guys as closed to new experience as the subjectivist is closed to the facts. Walk the middle ground guys. It is a happy place.

You're wasting your time Gazzip. This is the reason these forums have become boring, rigid and unpleasant. Hardly anyone dares to post anymore for fear of unfounded and undeserved ridicule.

If I post on a popular car forum that I purchased green stripes that improve fuel efficiency I'll get ridicule from one camp and support from other. This forum is nothing different than any other in that respect. If you see a forum where everyone agrees with eachother, ask if there is a mass suicide ritual scheduled at some point in time.

You guys all seem to agree with each other. When you doing it?

(Only kidding!)

 

[Gazzip]

This thread is a classic example unfounded cynicism. Not one of you has "listened" to the rack in question but you are all dismissing the WHF review as foo. An unwavering belief in the "facts" has left you guys as closed to new experience as the subjectivist is closed to the facts. Walk the middle ground guys. It is a happy place.

Ahem, well founded cynicism based on the realities of human beings, their auditory frailties and inherent baises. People cannot reliably A/B anything if it's minutes/hours apart. That has been scientifically demonstrated. This is not accusing anyone of anything other than being a human being like all the rest of the human beings on the planet. Our ears are not reference devices, they never have been and they never will be. No two human beings have the same ears, same ear canal, same shaped bones in the inner ear, same neurons, same brains so no two humans hear exactly the same way. Similar yes. Very similar, likely. The same, no.

If you get up to change some device you're comparing, do you sit back down with your head in the exact same position? If not there's a chance you're going to hear a difference becase there is a difference in different spots in the room. Maybe the act of getting up, bending over, lifting, moving, exerting yourself ups the heart rate, ups the blood pressure and changes the way the ears are performing. Maybe the act of putting a new bit of kit in place of one of your favourites subconsciously affects your thinking. Back up the human opinion with a reference measurement showing if sound is altered or not. If that was done perhaps people would be more likely to think there was something in it. If no difference was measured it could be put down to audio memory lapse, some subconscious bias or something.

Your middle ground is actually head in the clouds.

Thing is that there is loads of scientific "suggestion" out there to support the viewpoint of the audiophile subjectivist. The problem is that when you post on this forum any reference to anything outside of accepted, text book core physics and electronic/electrical understanding it is completely ignored. Einstein needs no introduction and yet we are only just beginning to prove some of his physics. Just keep an open mind is all I am trying to say.

 

[TrevC]

This thread is a classic example unfounded cynicism. Not one of you has "listened" to the rack in question but you are all dismissing the WHF review as foo. An unwavering belief in the "facts" has left you guys as closed to new experience as the subjectivist is closed to the facts. Walk the middle ground guys. It is a happy place.

You're wasting your time Gazzip. This is the reason these forums have become boring, rigid and unpleasant. Hardly anyone dares to post anymore for fear of unfounded and undeserved ridicule.

Deserved, surely.:O)

Hifi is science. The science of sound reproduction. Introducing subjectivist twaddle about bits of wire and racks is silly, so of course will be ridiculed.

 

[Vladimir]

This thread is a classic example unfounded cynicism. Not one of you has "listened" to the rack in question but you are all dismissing the WHF review as foo. An unwavering belief in the "facts" has left you guys as closed to new experience as the subjectivist is closed to the facts. Walk the middle ground guys. It is a happy place.

Ahem, well founded cynicism based on the realities of human beings, their auditory frailties and inherent baises. People cannot reliably A/B anything if it's minutes/hours apart. That has been scientifically demonstrated. This is not accusing anyone of anything other than being a human being like all the rest of the human beings on the planet. Our ears are not reference devices, they never have been and they never will be. No two human beings have the same ears, same ear canal, same shaped bones in the inner ear, same neurons, same brains so no two humans hear exactly the same way. Similar yes. Very similar, likely. The same, no.

If you get up to change some device you're comparing, do you sit back down with your head in the exact same position? If not there's a chance you're going to hear a difference becase there is a difference in different spots in the room. Maybe the act of getting up, bending over, lifting, moving, exerting yourself ups the heart rate, ups the blood pressure and changes the way the ears are performing. Maybe the act of putting a new bit of kit in place of one of your favourites subconsciously affects your thinking. Back up the human opinion with a reference measurement showing if sound is altered or not. If that was done perhaps people would be more likely to think there was something in it. If no difference was measured it could be put down to audio memory lapse, some subconscious bias or something.

Your middle ground is actually head in the clouds.

Thing is that there is loads of scientific "suggestion" out there to support the viewpoint of the audiophile subjectivist. The problem is that when you post on this forum any reference to anything outside of accepted, text book core physics and electronic/electrical understanding it is completely ignored. Einstein needs no introduction and yet we are only just beginning to prove some of his physics. Just keep an open mind is all I am trying to say.

As an end user/buyer, untill somethng is proven and demonstrated to me, I remain skeptical and that means also closed walleted. That is the smart and responsible thing to do. I worked for my income and I don't want to spend it on imaginery benefits that enrich others and empowerish me.

Selfish? Closed minded? You betcha.

I leave audiophile racks, Ron Hubbard books, JPlay, UFO conventions and Jonestown memorabilia to open minded people.

 

[Gazzip]

When my grandmother was dying she told my mother on her deathbed that she wished she believed in God. It would make death so much more beautiful and easier to embrace she said. I cannot believe in God but have tried to take something from that forward in to my life. It sounds as if you guys take the same kind of solace in pure science. All good and at least we are all happy, albeit for different reasons.

 

[Vladimir]

Taking solace in evidence based system of knowledge vs bronze age superstition and anecdotes... hmmm... Tough choice.

 

[Gazzip]

Taking solace in evidence based system of knowledge vs bronze age superstition and anecdotes... hmmm... Tough choice.

You may have missed my point. I just keep an open mind.

 

[Al ears]

Taking solace in evidence based system of knowledge vs bronze age superstition and anecdotes... hmmm... Tough choice.

You may have missed my point. I just keep an open mind.

Unfortunately a completely open mind is an easily inflected one.

 

[Andrewjvt]

This thread is a classic example unfounded cynicism. Not one of you has "listened" to the rack in question but you are all dismissing the WHF review as foo. An unwavering belief in the "facts" has left you guys as closed to new experience as the subjectivist is closed to the facts. Walk the middle ground guys. It is a happy place.

Ahem, well founded cynicism based on the realities of human beings, their auditory frailties and inherent baises.  People cannot reliably A/B anything if it's minutes/hours apart.  That has been scientifically demonstrated.  This is not accusing anyone of anything other than being a human being like all the rest of the human beings on the planet.  Our ears are not reference devices, they never have been and they never will be.  No two human beings have the same ears, same ear canal, same shaped bones in the inner ear, same neurons, same brains so no two humans hear exactly the same way. Similar yes.  Very similar, likely.  The same, no.?

If you get up to change some device you're comparing, do you sit back down with your head in the exact same position?  If not there's a chance you're going to hear a difference becase there is a difference in different spots in the room.  Maybe the act of getting up, bending over, lifting, moving, exerting yourself ups the heart rate, ups the blood pressure and changes the way the ears are performing.  Maybe the act of putting a new bit of kit in place of one of your favourites subconsciously affects your thinking.  Back up the human opinion with a reference measurement showing if sound is altered or not.  If that was done perhaps people would be more likely to think there was something in it.  If no difference was measured it could be put down to audio memory lapse, some subconscious bias or something.

Your middle ground is actually head in the clouds.

Thing is that there is loads of scientific "suggestion" out there to support the viewpoint of the audiophile subjectivist. The problem is that when you post on this forum any reference to anything outside of accepted, text book core physics and electronic/electrical understanding it is completely ignored. Einstein needs no introduction and yet we are only just beginning to prove some of his physics. Just keep an open mind is all I am trying to say.

As an end user/buyer, untill somethng is proven and demonstrated to me, I remain skeptical and that means also closed walleted. That is the smart and responsible thing to do. I worked for my income and I don't want to spend it on imaginery benefits that enrich others and empowerish me.

Selfish? Closed minded? You betcha.

I leave audiophile racks, Ron Hubbard books, JPlay, UFO conventions and Jonestown memorabilia to open minded people.

So no star trek conventions or the break away cult babylon 5 for you then lol

 

[Vladimir]

yes

 

[TrevC]

.

 

[Gazzip]

Taking solace in evidence based system of knowledge vs bronze age superstition and anecdotes... hmmm... Tough choice.

You may have missed my point. I just keep an open mind.

Unfortunately a completely open mind is an easily inflected one.

...and a completely closed mind will not experience anything new. ;-)

 

[Vladimir]

Taking solace in evidence based system of knowledge vs bronze age superstition and anecdotes... hmmm... Tough choice.

You may have missed my point. I just keep an open mind.

Unfortunately a completely open mind is an easily inflected one.

...and a completely closed mind will not experience anything new. ;-)

I'll fail to improve my hi-fi experience by 5%. Gee, how will I live on?

 

[Andrewjvt]

I made my tv stand/hifi rack myself out of cheap builders timber used for roof trusses.
Its a solid as they come and is very heavy.

It cost me about £25 to build and people alway ask me where i brought it lol as its very chunky rustic looking.

Now for the sound
Well the mids are so pleasant and natural. The highs are so sweet you can taste them.
The bass has also improved since ive used this rack.
So imagine what an improvement the real deal would sound like lol

 

[Gazzip]

Taking solace in evidence based system of knowledge vs bronze age superstition and anecdotes... hmmm... Tough choice.

You may have missed my point. I just keep an open mind.

Unfortunately a completely open mind is an easily inflected one.

...and a completely closed mind will not experience anything new. ;-)

I'll fail to improve my hi-fi experience by 5%. Gee, how will I live on?

Hopefully happily and for a long time. However this is a web forum dedicated to a hobby for obsessives trying to extract 100% from their music collection.

 

[Vladimir]

What's the point?

 

[Gazzip]

What's the point?

Already made.

 

[Vladimir]

What's the point obsessing so much over gear? Plenty of people enjoy music in full (100%) with what poor equipment they have. Only audiophiles need more equipment in order to shave off another hair on the hi-fi asymptote. Eventually it leads to these ridiculous snake oil BS concepts passing as 'open minded' in the eyes of the ignorant. Addictive (obsessive) personality and critical thinking don't go hand in hand.

 

[Jota180]

This thread is a classic example unfounded cynicism. Not one of you has "listened" to the rack in question but you are all dismissing the WHF review as foo. An unwavering belief in the "facts" has left you guys as closed to new experience as the subjectivist is closed to the facts. Walk the middle ground guys. It is a happy place.

Ahem, well founded cynicism based on the realities of human beings, their auditory frailties and inherent baises. People cannot reliably A/B anything if it's minutes/hours apart. That has been scientifically demonstrated. This is not accusing anyone of anything other than being a human being like all the rest of the human beings on the planet. Our ears are not reference devices, they never have been and they never will be. No two human beings have the same ears, same ear canal, same shaped bones in the inner ear, same neurons, same brains so no two humans hear exactly the same way. Similar yes. Very similar, likely. The same, no.

If you get up to change some device you're comparing, do you sit back down with your head in the exact same position? If not there's a chance you're going to hear a difference becase there is a difference in different spots in the room. Maybe the act of getting up, bending over, lifting, moving, exerting yourself ups the heart rate, ups the blood pressure and changes the way the ears are performing. Maybe the act of putting a new bit of kit in place of one of your favourites subconsciously affects your thinking. Back up the human opinion with a reference measurement showing if sound is altered or not. If that was done perhaps people would be more likely to think there was something in it. If no difference was measured it could be put down to audio memory lapse, some subconscious bias or something.

Your middle ground is actually head in the clouds.

Thing is that there is loads of scientific "suggestion" out there to support the viewpoint of the audiophile subjectivist. The problem is that when you post on this forum any reference to anything outside of accepted, text book core physics and electronic/electrical understanding it is completely ignored. Einstein needs no introduction and yet we are only just beginning to prove some of his physics. Just keep an open mind is all I am trying to say.

Generally I do but also to the extent that my mind is simultaneously open to the fact that us humans are open to all sorts of biases and suggestions and that our belief in our senses and mental faculties is all too often far in excess of their natural capabilities.

When it comes to other people's senses my take is not to put much stock in it at all because of the above and more. I don't have the reviewers ears and he doesn't have mine. In the absence of any reference how am I to process what he's saying with any confidence?

 

[Vladimir]

I made my tv stand/hifi rack myself out of cheap builders timber used for roof trusses. Its a solid as they come and is very heavy.

It cost me about £25 to build and people alway ask me where i brought it lol as its very chunky rustic looking.

Now for the sound Well the mids are so pleasant and natural. The highs are so sweet you can taste them. The bass has also improved since ive used this rack. So imagine what an improvement the real deal would sound like lol

Believe it or not I also thought it was store bought and cool. I saw it on the photos posted on the Musicraft website.

 

[TrevC]

Taking solace in evidence based system of knowledge vs bronze age superstition and anecdotes... hmmm... Tough choice.

You may have missed my point. I just keep an open mind.

Unfortunately a completely open mind is an easily inflected one.

...and a completely closed mind will not experience anything new. ;-)

Opening your mind to the possibility that solid state hifi equipment might sound different on different racks is akin to opening your mind to the possibility there might be fairies at the bottom of the garden. Have you opened your mind wide enough to accept the possibility that most WHF reviews are nonsense?

 

[Gazzip]

Taking solace in evidence based system of knowledge vs bronze age superstition and anecdotes... hmmm... Tough choice.

You may have missed my point. I just keep an open mind.

Unfortunately a completely open mind is an easily inflected one.

...and a completely closed mind will not experience anything new. ;-)

Opening your mind to the possibility that solid state hifi equipment might sound different on different racks is akin to opening your mind to the possibility there might be fairies at the bottom of the garden.

Apart from the fact that solid state capacitors are microphonic and that external vibration can therefore introduce noise back in to an amplifier's electrical signal you are completely right. Which means you are completely wrong BTW.

http://www.kemet.com/Lists/TechnicalArticles/Attachments/62/2007%20CARTS%20-%20Reduced%20Microphonics%20and%20Sound%20Emissions.pdf

 

[TrevC]

Taking solace in evidence based system of knowledge vs bronze age superstition and anecdotes... hmmm... Tough choice.

You may have missed my point. I just keep an open mind.

Unfortunately a completely open mind is an easily inflected one.

...and a completely closed mind will not experience anything new. ;-)

Opening your mind to the possibility that solid state hifi equipment might sound different on different racks is akin to opening your mind to the possibility there might be fairies at the bottom of the garden.

Apart from the fact that solid state capacitors are microphonic and that external vibration can therefore introduce noise back in to an amplifier's electrical signal you are completely right. Which means you are completely wrong BTW.

http://www.kemet.com/Lists/TechnicalArticles/Attachments/62/2007%20CARTS%20-%20Reduced%20Microphonics%20and%20Sound%20Emissions.pdf

It means you are getting rather desperate. That must have taken some googling, but unfortunately it isn't all that relevant to the type of capacitors generally used in audio amplifiers. Try tapping your SS amplifier with headphones on and volume turned to the max. Hear anything? Of course not, so the rack won't affect it.

You might make a CD player skip if you treat it to a kw of audio to make it vibrate, but I doubt the rack could stop it happening.

 

[steve_1979]

The last time I was using an amplifier with passive speakers (it was a Yamaha RX-V667) I tried tapping it to see if the vibration effected the sound but it didn't. Then I got a small rubber mallet and gave it a few firm bumps with that but still nothing. Then I picked it up and shuck it quite vicously and even that didn't have an effect on the sound. If I'd of tried any more extreme ways of causing a vibration than these tests it probably would have broken something inside the amp by hitting it too hard.

Really. Try it yourself. Give your amplifier a firm tap and see what effect it has on the sound.

Solid state amps are NOT microphonic to a degree that you will never heard any difference caused by using a different rack.