floyd droid
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stevebrock said:easy boy
Hi Jim, It's not received as patronising at all, rather it's very informative and interesting. Just to be clear, what came first Meditations or First Meditations? I'm confused. I can make sense though of your delineation of styles, with 1965 as the fulcrum. I'm slightly awry with my chronological approach to listening to the albums via Spotify, but I'm really enjoying this journey into the new.Jim-W said:The Heliocentric Worlds Of Sun Ra Volumes 1 and 2. (ESP.) If John Gilmore's tenor didn't influence John Coltrane, I'll eat my head.
John Coltrane-Blue Train
John Coltrane-First Meditations.
Charlie, there was a method in the madness of suggesting that you listen to 'Meditations' and 'First Meditations.' :Meditations' from 1965 I think shows Coltrane exhausting the possibilities of the famous quartet which is still reliant on chords and the harmonic delvelopments that this implies. Similarly, the rhythym and time aspects are conventional but you can hear Coltrane wanting more and feeling hamprered by these sructures, hence the re-recording with different musicians for the release of 'Meditations.' I think this is is a really instructive jazz lesson in itself, a microcosm of what was happening at the time with the development of the avant-garde/ New York jazz scene. After 1965, Coltrane's music become much more free and experimental although his playing remains often lyrical and melodic. Clearly, there's more atonal stuff too. i thought it might help you to decide what period of Trane's music you would focus on. You can hear all of this in Ornette Coleman's Texas blues style but without the piano feeding chords to prompt melody/harmonic development so he's free to go where he wants.
So, anything up to 1965 with the Coltrane quartet, and in my opinion, 1965 is the best year in many ways, is accessible if challenging in its own way. After 1965, it's more avant-garde but equally rewarding. Hope this doesn't come across as patronising; I'm just trying to give you some pointers and these are very much my pointers. Other opinions are available!
If it's not been suggested already then check out Karma by Pharoah Sanders - veers from total freak out to melodic bliss in each track in a really magical way.Charlie Jefferson said:I like the meeting place between the atonal and the full-bloom medodic playing. It's exhilarating.
Will do. Know the name, never heard any actual music. Will rectify that tonight. Thanks.omnibeard said:If it's not been suggested already then check out Karma by Pharoah Sanders - veers from total freak out to melodic bliss in each track in a really magical way.Charlie Jefferson said:I like the meeting place between the atonal and the full-bloom medodic playing. It's exhilarating.
That's my take on it anyhows...
That high?Charlie Jefferson said:It's in my top 38 Fall studio LPs.BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW said:
Hi Charlie. OK, 'First Meditations' was recorded first but not released until 1977 on lp and early 1990's on cd I think. 'Meditations' was recorded 3 months after 'First Meditations' and released in 1965. 'First Med' was one of the last recordings with the usual quartet but Coltrane wanted a 'purer' form of expression ie freer and not rooted in Western ideas of chords and time-keeping. Hence McCoy Tyner and Elvin Jones left the band and in came polyrhthmic drumming and atonality in the form of Trane and Pharoah Sanders. Rashied Ali was the new drummer, more sympathetic to Coltrane's new needs as a composer and soloist.Charlie Jefferson said:Hi Jim, It's not received as patronising at all, rather it's very informative and interesting. Just to be clear, what came first Meditations or First Meditations? I'm confused. I can make sense though of your delineation of styles, with 1965 as the fulcrum. I'm slightly awry with my chronological approach to listening to the albums via Spotify, but I'm really enjoying this journey into the new.Jim-W said:The Heliocentric Worlds Of Sun Ra Volumes 1 and 2. (ESP.) If John Gilmore's tenor didn't influence John Coltrane, I'll eat my head.
John Coltrane-Blue Train
John Coltrane-First Meditations.
Charlie, there was a method in the madness of suggesting that you listen to 'Meditations' and 'First Meditations.' :Meditations' from 1965 I think shows Coltrane exhausting the possibilities of the famous quartet which is still reliant on chords and the harmonic delvelopments that this implies. Similarly, the rhythym and time aspects are conventional but you can hear Coltrane wanting more and feeling hamprered by these sructures, hence the re-recording with different musicians for the release of 'Meditations.' I think this is is a really instructive jazz lesson in itself, a microcosm of what was happening at the time with the development of the avant-garde/ New York jazz scene. After 1965, Coltrane's music become much more free and experimental although his playing remains often lyrical and melodic. Clearly, there's more atonal stuff too. i thought it might help you to decide what period of Trane's music you would focus on. You can hear all of this in Ornette Coleman's Texas blues style but without the piano feeding chords to prompt melody/harmonic development so he's free to go where he wants.
So, anything up to 1965 with the Coltrane quartet, and in my opinion, 1965 is the best year in many ways, is accessible if challenging in its own way. After 1965, it's more avant-garde but equally rewarding. Hope this doesn't come across as patronising; I'm just trying to give you some pointers and these are very much my pointers. Other opinions are available!
I like the meeting place between the atonal and the full-bloom medodic playing. It's exhilarating.
That's the one I've just been listening to for the last half hour or so. It's quite something. It's like a series of connected/disconnected intersections. Baffling, brilliant and beguiling. Well, hat was on my first listen. Headphones/Spotify. Need to hear it through my speakers really, I can't abide headphones for too long.Jim-W said:Ok the song is cheesey but Pharoah's solo is unbelievable!
Try also 'The Creator Has A Master Plan' from 'Karma', Charlie.
I like Porcupine Treefloyd droid said:Another dip into my Porky Twee dept..
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Treat yourself to some Albert Ayler and/or Marion Brown too!Charlie Jefferson said:That's the one I've just been listening to for the last half hour or so. It's quite something. It's like a series of connected/disconnected intersections. Baffling, brilliant and beguiling. Well, hat was on my first listen. Headphones/Spotify. Need to hear it through my speakers really, I can't abide headphones for too long.Jim-W said:Ok the song is cheesey but Pharoah's solo is unbelievable!
Try also 'The Creator Has A Master Plan' from 'Karma', Charlie.
Thanks for the Meditations clarification. Onwards and downwards, spirally.
And then on to Cecil Taylor's 'Unit Structures' and Archie Shepp's 'Mama Too Tight.' You'll be a basket case, Charlie!omnibeard said:Treat yourself to some Albert Ayler and/or Marion Brown too!Charlie Jefferson said:That's the one I've just been listening to for the last half hour or so. It's quite something. It's like a series of connected/disconnected intersections. Baffling, brilliant and beguiling. Well, hat was on my first listen. Headphones/Spotify. Need to hear it through my speakers really, I can't abide headphones for too long.Jim-W said:Ok the song is cheesey but Pharoah's solo is unbelievable!
Try also 'The Creator Has A Master Plan' from 'Karma', Charlie.
Thanks for the Meditations clarification. Onwards and downwards, spirally.
Ahem , go back and count the zeros Steve.stevebrock said:if they are sealed a mere snip at £3k
I've been sifting through a few jazz comps (on CD) that I have and came across some fascinating tracks by Jackie McClean, Cannonball Adderley, Miles, Kenny Burrell, Monk amongst others. Treated my family members to a rather loud blast of the first track off Coltrane's Meditations. Last track tonight though is another listen to The Creator Has A Master Plan. Sublime.Jim-W said:And then on to Cecil Taylor's 'Unit Structures' and Archie Shepp's 'Mama Too Tight.' You'll be a basket case, Charlie!omnibeard said:Treat yourself to some Albert Ayler and/or Marion Brown too!Charlie Jefferson said:That's the one I've just been listening to for the last half hour or so. It's quite something. It's like a series of connected/disconnected intersections. Baffling, brilliant and beguiling. Well, hat was on my first listen. Headphones/Spotify. Need to hear it through my speakers really, I can't abide headphones for too long.Jim-W said:Ok the song is cheesey but Pharoah's solo is unbelievable!
Try also 'The Creator Has A Master Plan' from 'Karma', Charlie.
Thanks for the Meditations clarification. Onwards and downwards, spirally.