What vinyl are you listening to?

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Charlie Jefferson

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Maybe not my absolute favourite Dan LP but it has one of my all time favourite songs, Razor Boy. Wonderful.

I stayed off the booze last night and played MMJ loudly, as mentioned, but in particular found myself re-playing the masterclass in dynamics that is MMJ's Dondante, the live version off Okonokos. Then transferred from vinyl to digital for three longer versions of the same song. Brilliant.

BBB, neither Jumbo or Crash had TPF album and Relics was shut. Will keep looking though.
 

Jim-W

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Jul 29, 2013
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'Countdown To Ecstasy' is full of great songs.'Razor Boy' is lovely, but my favourite is 'Pearl Of The Quarter.' It's the ambiguity: is he a dumb schmuck or tender and understanding? Or, maybe like most of us, both. either way, it's hard to beat a song about falling for a hooker with a steel guitar accompaniment.
 

Charlie Jefferson

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Sep 2, 2007
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Jim-W said:
'Countdown To Ecstasy' is full of great songs.'Razor Boy' is lovely, but my favourite is 'Pearl Of The Quarter.' It's the ambiguity: is he a dumb schmuck or tender and understanding? Or, maybe like most of us, both. either way, it's hard to beat a song about falling for a hooker with a steel guitar accompaniment.
Hi Jim,

I need to tap into your jazz knowledge, well specifically your Coltrane brain. Over the weekend my father in law and I listened to many great tracks/albums from our joint collections on CD (predominantly his, a few mine) and Spotify, namely: Giant Steps, Love Supreme, Africa/Brass and a stack of live recordings some boots, some legit releases, plus well-lnown Mingus and Coleman albums. I'd love some of these on vinyl.

The question is do I apply the same logic to buying such albums as I would to buying say, Dylan and Zappa? As in, with these guys I know what an original or fairly contemporaneous issue looks like and can then compare in price (and SQ) to the more recent re-issues. My main priority with Coltrane and co would be, sound quality. Unlike Zappa and Bob I don't think I'm going to fixate on original pressings.

Hope that makes sense.

(All my father-in-laws vast vinyl collection is pianists, no one else gets a look in!)
 

Jim-W

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Jul 29, 2013
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Charlie Jefferson said:
Jim-W said:
'Countdown To Ecstasy' is full of great songs.'Razor Boy' is lovely, but my favourite is 'Pearl Of The Quarter.' It's the ambiguity: is he a dumb schmuck or tender and understanding? Or, maybe like most of us, both. either way, it's hard to beat a song about falling for a hooker with a steel guitar accompaniment.
Hi Jim,

I need to tap into your jazz knowledge, well specifically your Coltrane brain. Over the weekend my father in law and I listened to many great tracks/albums from our joint collections on CD (predominantly his, a few mine) and Spotify, namely: Giant Steps, Love Supreme, Africa/Brass and a stack of live recordings some boots, some legit releases, plus well-lnown Mingus and Coleman albums. I'd love some of these on vinyl.

The question is do I apply the same logic to buying such albums as I would to buying say, Dylan and Zappa? As in, with these guys I know what an original or fairly contemporaneous issue looks like and can then compare in price (and SQ) to the more recent re-issues. My main priority with Coltrane and co would be, sound quality. Unlike Zappa and Bob I don't think I'm going to fixate on original pressings.

Hope that makes sense.

(All my father-in-laws vast vinyl collection is pianists, no one else gets a look in!)
Hi Charlie. I'm not really sure what you want me to help you with! If I don't answer your question, let me know. I'll just ramble on. Well, Coltrane originals are expensive and the prices are rising. The 60's stuff on Impulse! commands big money but the 50's Atlantics do too. However, they've been repressed so often that just getting a Coltrane LP shouldn't pose much of a problem. I would imagine the best-known titles, 'A love Supreme', 'My Favourite Things', 'Coltrane Live At The Village Vanguard, 'Giant Steps' etc are all available on new pressings but I haven't checked recently. The sound quality of reissues is fine if some of mine are anything to go by.

An interesting point: Coltrane's Impulse albums were issued on London and HMV in the UK. I've got quite a few of these and they sound fantastic. These don't sem to fetch the same amount of money as the American originals although they are UK first pressings. I pay about £12-£20 for these. They don't turn up that often but they're to be found in crates at markets fairly frequently. I do think markets are your best bet; I get all my records from various markets. I like to see what I'm buying. Original USA Coltrane's are becoming very very scarce; I haven't seen one for 2 or three years. Well, maybe an odd 'A Love Supreme' but that's about it.

There's also his stuff on Prestige which is pre-sheets of sound and these are lovely records. They don't command high prices but dealers will rip you off if they see a glint in your eye.

Coltrane cd's are well-mastered too by the way. I've got the Impulse! Complete Recordings box and the Atlantic complete blah blah box and they sound fantastic to my ears.

Blue Note have just reissued his sole Blue Note recording on vinyl, 'Blue Train' and you can order that from Blue Note Uk. An original costs an arm and a leg I would imagine. Yes, I've got one! It's a damn good record but not as experimental and nudging the free principle as his later stuff.

If you buy off the net(I don't) and you see something and aren't sure about the price, send me a message. I'll gladly give you an opinion.

To be concise and I'm not, buy reissues with confidence; they are usually well-pressed and sound good. It's always nice to have the originals of course and in the case of Coltrane's Impulse! records, I would pay silly money. You just don't see them very often, especially the later ones.

If I haven't answered your question properly let me know. I'm no expert though.

Just seen Coleman reference too. OK, I have a reissue of 'Change Of The Century' I bought it because I'd forgotten that I had an original. It's a great record although I do struggle a bit with Ornette! If you were interested, I could mail it to you. Free of charge, of course. I wouldn't want anything for it. I won't be offended if you're not interested.
 
B

BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW

Guest
DIB said:


... possibly the loudest band I've ever seen live BITD.
That honour goes to Add N to X for me, everyone was putting in ear plugs before they came on, young people, and then I realised why. I had to leave after 2 songs, it was physically painful, and nauseating.
 

Charlie Jefferson

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Sep 2, 2007
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Hi Jim,

You have answered my question most interestingly and thoroughly. I love a bit of insider label info and will seek out those UK issues, but more than likely plump for re-issues in the main.

Other than the releases you mention, most of which I own or can access via my f-i-l, which albums would you recommend of JC and maybe others.

Broadly speaking I prefer the harder edge of Giant Steps and Coleman's Something Else (?) to the Ellington/Coltrane LP (can't remember the title) that my father in law played me yesterday. The latter was, to my ears. more comventional sounding, whereas I like the "fireworks going off in all directions" sounds. (Don't think I will quiite cut it as a jazz critic but hopefully you can get a sense of what I mean).

Liked your Steely Dan paean. I feel another thread coming on.
 

Jim-W

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Jul 29, 2013
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Charlie Jefferson said:
Hi Jim,

You have answered my question most interestingly and thoroughly. I love a bit of insider label info and will seek out those UK issues, but more than likely plump for re-issues in the main.

Other than the releases you mention, most of which I own or can access via my f-i-l, which albums would you recommend of JC and maybe others.

Broadly speaking I prefer the harder edge of Giant Steps and Coleman's Something Else (?) to the Ellington/Coltrane LP (can't remember the title) that my father in law played me yesterday. The latter was, to my ears. more comventional sounding, whereas I like the "fireworks going off in all directions" sounds. (Don't think I will quiite cut it as a jazz critic but hopefully you can get a sense of what I mean).

Liked your Steely Dan paean. I feel another thread coming on.
Well, 'Trane said his tenure with Ellington taught him a lot but it is, In comparison with his later stuff, fairly straightforward. I find reeecommending jazz very difficult because you seem to know what somebody likes when it comes to pop music but jazz is, I dunno,more personal somehow.

'Giant Steps' is Coltrane's first 'sheets of sound' record so I take it that that's the sound you like. Well, to be honest, pretty much everything after that record until his death will interest you; there's plenty of 'fireworks on all of them. If you genuinely like the freeer stuff then I would suggest you get to know Eric Dolphy who plays on a few records with Coltrane. He's on 'Live At The Village Vanguard' for example. any record with Trane and Dolphy has fireworks aplenty. Check out' Out To Lunch' by Dolphy as a leader but beware because this is not easy-listening but it's damn interesting.

I recommend all of the Impulse! Coltrane's with the Elvin Jones, Jimmy Garrison and McCoy Tyner line-up unreservedly. I see you have some but of the others look out for, in no particular order:

'Crescent'

'Coltrane'-I think this is an ideal record- very melodic and beautiful. One of my very favourites. Check out 'Out Of This World' on Spotify or youtube.

'First Meditations' Unbelievably beautiful record. Coltrane wailing, yearning and pleading but still with a trad rhythm section. There's no experiments with time and harmonics like the original release of 'Meditations' which is much more out there. In other words, it nudges free jazz but is still rooted in trad harmonic development.

'Ascension' is very free. Loads of saxes making a damn racket. It's wonderful, of course. Not easy for the beginner.

'Stellar Regions' is polyrhythmic, splashy cymbals, tinkling piano and 'Trane wailing over the top. Some very beautiful music on this. I've only got a cd of this but it's worth getting any format.

Of the Atlantic recordings,the record after 'Giant Steps', 'Coltrane Jazz' is well-worth having. It's pretty much in the same vain as 'Giant Steps.'

'Ole Coltrane' is interesting and has a Spanish feel and 2 bass players

'Coltrane Plays The Blues' does what it says on the tin. Nice record. Coltrane plays soprano on some of these. As he does on 'My Favourite Things.' These are different types of blues with Coltrane stretching out. It's an ideal beginners record. As is:

'Ballads' -This is an Impulse record with Coltrane playing show-tunes. Pretty straightforward but he plays beautifully on this.

All of these you should be able to find or sample. It's a cross-section of stuff. If this gets a bit far out for you, and I don't think it will, then try 'Soultrane' which is lovely early 'Trane' or any of the Prestige recordings he made with the piano-player Red Garland-nice records.

If you like the hard, muscular sound of 'Giant Steps.' then you have to hear Dexter Gordon, his 'Go' album or 'Our Man In paris' are terrific. Any Dexter is wonderful. 'Trane acknowledged a huge debt to him.

Other great players to spotify or whatever:

Sam Rivers-free, tough, intelligent playing

David Murray

Oliver Nelson 'Blues And The Abstract Truth' is brilliant. Architecturally-built solos, beautiful tone and Eric Dolphy adding fireworks

Jackie McClean-Blue Note. Great hard-edged alto, very Parkeresque but with more freedom

Wayne Shoter's Blue Notes are all terrific. Feathery and enigmatic.

Tina Brooks-Blue Note male(!) artist. youtube it. just beautifully built solos. 'True Blue' is the album.

+many more but I'm knackered now and ready for a Johnnie Walker!

Hope this helps a bit. Ask away if there's any more questions. I've got all this stuff in my head and I rarely communicate it. I enjoy it.
 

Freddy58

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Jan 24, 2014
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I'm not too keen on Jazz, sorry. I just don't 'get' the 'sheets of sound' thing. Just sounds like a mass of notes to me. Should I get my coat? :grin:
 

Marvindodgers

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Feb 26, 2013
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There seems to be a lot of support for My Morning Jacket on this forum. They are not a band I know at all. I was wondering if there are any suggestions for a start point to give them a listen?
 

Jim-W

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Jul 29, 2013
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Freddy58 said:
I'm not too keen on Jazz, sorry. I just don't 'get' the 'sheets of sound' thing. Just sounds like a mass of notes to me. Should I get my coat? :grin:
No, Freddy, please stay. I want you to stay. You're a source of endless amusement. :)
 

Jim-W

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Marvindodgers said:
There seems to be a lot of support for My Morning Jacket on this forum. They are not a band I know at all. I was wondering if there are any suggestions for a start point to give them a listen?
Charlie is your man, Marvin. There's loads on youtube, thogh. I enjoyed flicking through their stuff, but each album is very different. Quality records.
 

Freddy58

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Jan 24, 2014
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Jim-W said:
Freddy58 said:
I'm not too keen on Jazz, sorry. I just don't 'get' the 'sheets of sound' thing. Just sounds like a mass of notes to me. Should I get my coat? :grin:
No, Freddy, please stay. I want you to stay. You're a source of endless amusement. :)
Well, at least that makes me useful :) I guess I'm just not clever enough to appreciate it, my bad.
 

Charlie Jefferson

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Sep 2, 2007
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Hi Jim,

Thanks for your guide to buying Coltrane and others. I've created a list from your recommendations, nearly all bar a few will be new listens for me. Exciting stuff. I'll do the Spotify thing first with most and then take a chance on the re-issued vinyl, where available.

Other than my father-in-law my only other non-internet jazz contact is a friend I only see once a year who lives in Berlin. He's got stacks and stacks of jazz and other totally out there music. About ten years ago he copied a big pile of Coltrane, Sun Ra, Monk, Art Ensemble Of Chicago LPs for me but I mislaid them en route back to England. (Never had the heart to tell him). I recognise some/most of the titles in your post from his collection too.

Thanks for the list of other artists, I only have the Oliver Nelson album on CD (a gift from my father-in-law), and I love it, the rest are also new to me.

I have phases of craving non-vocal music, and your list will give me plenty to go at in that sense. My Dad has just given me an immense CD box of Shostakovich's string quartets, so I'm looking forward to the upcoming fortnight's holiday to dive into both genres.
 

Jim-W

New member
Jul 29, 2013
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Freddy58 said:
Jim-W said:
Freddy58 said:
I'm not too keen on Jazz, sorry. I just don't 'get' the 'sheets of sound' thing. Just sounds like a mass of notes to me. Should I get my coat? :grin:
No, Freddy, please stay. I want you to stay. You're a source of endless amusement. :)
Well, at least that makes me useful :) I guess I'm just not clever enough to appreciate it, my bad.
It's not about being clever. It's about educating yourself by listening to new things. Jazz is often very soulful and beautiful, Freddy. It's not all honking and bleating.
 

Jim-W

New member
Jul 29, 2013
2
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Charlie Jefferson said:
Hi Jim,

Thanks for your guide to buying Coltrane and others. I've created a list from your recommendations, nearly all bar a few will be new listens for me. Exciting stuff. I'll do the Spotify thing first with most and then take a chance on the re-issued vinyl, where available.

Other than my father-in-law my only other non-internet jazz contact is a friend I only see once a year who lives in Berlin. He's got stacks and stacks of jazz and other totally out there music. About ten years ago he copied a big pile of Coltrane, Sun Ra, Monk, Art Ensemble Of Chicago LPs for me but I mislaid them en route back to England. (Never had the heart to tell him). I recognise some/most of the titles in your post from his collection too.

Thanks for the list of other artists, I only have the Oliver Nelson album on CD (a gift from my father-in-law), and I love it, the rest are also new to me.

I have phases of craving non-vocal music, and your list will give me plenty to go at in that sense. My Dad has just given me an immense CD box of Shostakovich's string quartets, so I'm looking forward to the upcoming fortnight's holiday to dive into both genres.
Oh, you have 'Blues And The Abstract Truth; Brilliant. Yes, it's a great record.

Shostakovich! The kid gets heavy! Try Beethoven's Late Quartets after those. Music of the spheres.
 

Freddy58

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2014
25
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10,545
Jim-W said:
Freddy58 said:
Jim-W said:
Freddy58 said:
I'm not too keen on Jazz, sorry. I just don't 'get' the 'sheets of sound' thing. Just sounds like a mass of notes to me. Should I get my coat? :grin:
No, Freddy, please stay. I want you to stay. You're a source of endless amusement. :)
Well, at least that makes me useful :) I guess I'm just not clever enough to appreciate it, my bad.
It's not about being clever. It's about educating yourself by listening to new things. Jazz is often very soulful and beautiful, Freddy. It's not all honking and bleating.
Hiya Jim. Thing is, I'm a big fan of melody, and with Jazz, with my limited musical vocabluary, I just don't hear any (melody).
 

Charlie Jefferson

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Sep 2, 2007
229
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18,790
Marvindodgers said:
There seems to be a lot of support for My Morning Jacket on this forum. They are not a band I know at all. I was wondering if there are any suggestions for a start point to give them a listen?

[/quote

Hi Marvin,

My Morning Jacket are a wonderful, wonderful band. I'll do my best to précis their manifold charms and triumphs over each album, to date. Here goes:

1) The Tennessee Fire - their debut. Reminds me a little of The Baptist Generals, if you know their stuff. As a debut it gives few clues of what will come next but does include several country-styled lo-fi, scratchy tunes. Beautiful and unrefined. Perhaps more emphasis on the latter word. Plus, their drummer at the time couldn't really drum. And it all sounds like it's recorded in a well-mic-ed shoe box.

2) At Dawn - their first masterpiece. Not a bit like the first album really. Expansive, rolling soundscapes all drenched in a silo-recorded reverb. Which might not make for an audiophile listen but makes for a heartbreaking set of songs. The first true manifestation of Jim James' voice, guitar-playing and songwriting. Key songs: The Way That He Sings & Stangulation. It's a long album. Loads of detours, not much concision.

3) It Still Moves - more polished but they lose nothing of their allure. Big, occasional Grateful Dead-esque guitar pieces nestle alongside folksy, homespun acoustic numbers. And once again the reverb-drenched voice works wonders.

4) Z - another masterpiece. But this time over 45 minutes, their shortest and most accessible album. Soulful vocals (he dropped the reverb), dextrous drumming and twin guitar attack on many songs. Includes the transcendent studio take of Dondante. Lay Low, Anytime and Off The Record are songs I can't live without. It rocks. In a blues-jam yet controlled manner.

5) Evil Urges - back to a longer running time. More experimental, in places. Funky, drum-machines, yet almost proggy in places. Still loads of gentle acoustic, poppy numbers alongside the sprawling mass of sounds. Also includes some of their rawest garage rock. It's all over the place, in a good way.

6) Circuital - not quite as good as Z, but in similar vein. Shorter running time, one or two immortal and quieter moments. Lacks the elongated Neil Young guitar meditations I love but does include Holding On To Black Metal and Victory Dance, two very different takes on rock-atmospherics.

New studio LP is due this year.

They have one highly recommended live LP, Okonokos which goes upto and includes songs from Fire to Z. It's a fantastically recorded live LP and does Justice to their live act. It captures their many aspects and manages to add something to the already great studio versions. There are many, many live downaloads of whole shows on their official site. For me, they are all worth having but I'm probably just a bit much of an obsessive to say otherwise.

Hope that gives some idea of where to start.
 

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