- May 9, 2024
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And you're on the 3rd floor Ben 🤔
I hope your neighbours remain tolerant 👍
nopiano
Well-known member
- Feb 15, 2009
- 4,436
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Just looking back, you can understand now why I said your original unknown #1 would be needlessly loud!
I hope your neighbours approve too! 😉
- May 9, 2024
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After several trials with my partner here is my memo.
We listened to a wide variety of artists:
- Mélanie De Biasio, "Your Freedom Is the End of Me"
- Erik Truffaz - "Les Choses de la Vie" and "Heaven"
- Dream Theater - "Goodnight Kiss"
- Down - "Stone the Crow"
- Dire Straits - "So Far Away"
- Brad Mehldau - "When It Rains"
- Mozart conducted by Karl Böhm (original soundtracks)
... and I'm at a loss.
The Acoustic Energy speakers seem to distribute sound more easily. The sound seems to surround us more effortlessly with the AEs.
The Recital Audio speakers are much bassier. Perhaps a bit too much so.
The Obelisk si3 might also be too rich in bass. I'm not sure it lacks power. It's not a neutral amplifier.
Some details are missing when the mother speaks to her baby in Dream Theater's song "Goodnight Kiss." Some synth details or splashes are timid with the RAs.
There's an enormous amount of bass with Erik Truffaz. The trumpet is excellent in "Heaven," but not better than with the old AEs (which are only a year old).
Down sounds better on the Recital Audio. The LP has always been rich in high frequencies and high mids, sometimes even harsh. I prefer the new ones.
With astonishment and some concern, my industrial models at €1,400 are proving to be strong competitors against the handcrafted models at €2,500. Is it a matter of break-in time? Habit? Fear of making another significant investment mistake?
With Dire Straits: the impact of the bass drum hits me in the gut. It's sublime! But the choirs might be a bit distant. Knopfler's voice sounds different from what I have in mind. His Strat is thicker with the Recitals.
James LaBrie's voice is also matte and thick. Even John Petrucci's sound is different from my references, and it's a sound I know completely! I have his guitar and his amp.
The strangest experience is with the recording of Mozart by the Wiener Philharmoniker on Deutsche Grammophon. The orchestra doesn't seem as detailed to me. I expected a wider soundstage. I expected to be in the hall with the musicians. I'm not. It sounds compact. On the contrary, the voices are incredibly good! When the choir sings Reeeex... an emotion overwhelms me. The chills are there.
For now, I'm confused, and my decision is not made. I could save €2,400!
The sound is already excellent at home, and I really recommend the Acoustic Energy AE-120 mkII! They rival the massive Recital Audio speakers.
I'm not going to change my amplifier! Maybe the Recital Audio speakers deserve a better amplifier. This one is colored and not straight or analytical.
We moved the speakers around, adjusting angles and distances from the wall (from 10 cm to 50 cm). The speakers are 3 meters apart, and the listening position is also 3 meters from each speaker.
This was the midday report after 2 hours of changes, trials, and coffee.
We listened to a wide variety of artists:
- Mélanie De Biasio, "Your Freedom Is the End of Me"
- Erik Truffaz - "Les Choses de la Vie" and "Heaven"
- Dream Theater - "Goodnight Kiss"
- Down - "Stone the Crow"
- Dire Straits - "So Far Away"
- Brad Mehldau - "When It Rains"
- Mozart conducted by Karl Böhm (original soundtracks)
... and I'm at a loss.
The Acoustic Energy speakers seem to distribute sound more easily. The sound seems to surround us more effortlessly with the AEs.
The Recital Audio speakers are much bassier. Perhaps a bit too much so.
The Obelisk si3 might also be too rich in bass. I'm not sure it lacks power. It's not a neutral amplifier.
Some details are missing when the mother speaks to her baby in Dream Theater's song "Goodnight Kiss." Some synth details or splashes are timid with the RAs.
There's an enormous amount of bass with Erik Truffaz. The trumpet is excellent in "Heaven," but not better than with the old AEs (which are only a year old).
Down sounds better on the Recital Audio. The LP has always been rich in high frequencies and high mids, sometimes even harsh. I prefer the new ones.
With astonishment and some concern, my industrial models at €1,400 are proving to be strong competitors against the handcrafted models at €2,500. Is it a matter of break-in time? Habit? Fear of making another significant investment mistake?
With Dire Straits: the impact of the bass drum hits me in the gut. It's sublime! But the choirs might be a bit distant. Knopfler's voice sounds different from what I have in mind. His Strat is thicker with the Recitals.
James LaBrie's voice is also matte and thick. Even John Petrucci's sound is different from my references, and it's a sound I know completely! I have his guitar and his amp.
The strangest experience is with the recording of Mozart by the Wiener Philharmoniker on Deutsche Grammophon. The orchestra doesn't seem as detailed to me. I expected a wider soundstage. I expected to be in the hall with the musicians. I'm not. It sounds compact. On the contrary, the voices are incredibly good! When the choir sings Reeeex... an emotion overwhelms me. The chills are there.
For now, I'm confused, and my decision is not made. I could save €2,400!
The sound is already excellent at home, and I really recommend the Acoustic Energy AE-120 mkII! They rival the massive Recital Audio speakers.
I'm not going to change my amplifier! Maybe the Recital Audio speakers deserve a better amplifier. This one is colored and not straight or analytical.
We moved the speakers around, adjusting angles and distances from the wall (from 10 cm to 50 cm). The speakers are 3 meters apart, and the listening position is also 3 meters from each speaker.
This was the midday report after 2 hours of changes, trials, and coffee.
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- May 9, 2024
- 71
- 35
- 570
I haven't tried it yet, and I must admit that the idea of placing socks in the rear vent is a bit off-putting to me. My partner pointed out a rather surprising and accurate characteristic: a kind of dull noise, a sense of oppression compared to the old ones.
Just last night, I spent another two hours moving the speakers. They were initially 3 meters apart and are now 2.44 meters apart, slightly closer together.
Over the next few days, I plan to listen without paying too much attention. I'll let them play for a week and then reconnect the old speakers in a week to see if there's anything added or missing.
Jasonovich
Well-known member
- Jul 28, 2022
- 2,954
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Nice setup.I haven't tried it yet, and I must admit that the idea of placing socks in the rear vent is a bit off-putting to me. My partner pointed out a rather surprising and accurate characteristic: a kind of dull noise, a sense of oppression compared to the old ones.
Just last night, I spent another two hours moving the speakers. They were initially 3 meters apart and are now 2.44 meters apart, slightly closer together.
Over the next few days, I plan to listen without paying too much attention. I'll let them play for a week and then reconnect the old speakers in a week to see if there's anything added or missing.
You can get some spongy foam, cut it to shape. That's should work, no cheese added 😁
I noticed your grills are on, have you listened to your speakers without them on?
- May 9, 2024
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You could always add some Room EQ such as DIRAC. This involves more money though and may not be worth it if you simply prefer your old speakers. Upgrading a system is a holistic affair. Often, if you're happy with what you have, upgrading one part significantly can easily unbalance the whole lot and you're digging yourself a financial hifi hole, necessitating upgrading other bits too. Great if you have a plan and money, not so much if not. Then there's your room and how it interacts with your speakers ... . Of course, you may miraculously find that you wake up one morning and your new speakers have transformed from an ugly frog in to ... . I personally have never experienced such a fundamental change in speakers but others seem to have done so ... .
We all chase 'perfection'. There is none. We always find something better. Sometimes putting the breaks on and just enjoy what we have is not such a bad idea.
We all chase 'perfection'. There is none. We always find something better. Sometimes putting the breaks on and just enjoy what we have is not such a bad idea.
Jasonovich
Well-known member
- Jul 28, 2022
- 2,954
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It certainly is, I confess in the pass I have made light of it. Particularly, if you were to change an amp or a speaker or source component, a small change can adversely affect the whole chain.
An upgrade will entail parting with ££££ but when you upset the eco-system it's always another round of ££££.
Most of the time, if you done your home work, it's a good fit but when it's not, well, in for a penny, in for a pound.
- May 9, 2024
- 71
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Thanks a lot @RoA.
Super wise comment.
I have not a single penny to add to this installation. This year is particularly difficult for me on financial aspects and these speakers come after some guitar sold, an Marshall tube amp and some accessories.
My questionnings are:
1. Do I benefit from an improvement ?
2. If there is improvement, does it worth the investment ?
I do not pay too much attention to gear. What is important to me is to get a good sound with high fidelity of the original studio or live capture.
Yesterday evening was a beautiful one : alone at home with LP’s in the night. Only the moonlight.
Super wise comment.
I have not a single penny to add to this installation. This year is particularly difficult for me on financial aspects and these speakers come after some guitar sold, an Marshall tube amp and some accessories.
My questionnings are:
1. Do I benefit from an improvement ?
2. If there is improvement, does it worth the investment ?
I do not pay too much attention to gear. What is important to me is to get a good sound with high fidelity of the original studio or live capture.
Yesterday evening was a beautiful one : alone at home with LP’s in the night. Only the moonlight.
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nopiano
Well-known member
- Feb 15, 2009
- 4,436
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When I read your earlier reaction, I was going to write something along these lines: stop ‘testing’ your hearing and the new speakers, just put on some music and enjoy it. The snag is with new stuff we all listen differently, and that’s usually very different to listening for pleasure.
So do as you say, chill for a week, and swap back to see. If you can possibly put the other speakers in a spare room or out of the way that will help the new speakers sound at their best.
Jasonovich
Well-known member
- Jul 28, 2022
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- May 9, 2024
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Plenty of wise advice.
Thank you everyone.
Worrying period when money becomes rare.
I have to let it flow.
Thank you everyone.
Worrying period when money becomes rare.
I have to let it flow.
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Stuart83
Well-known member
- Jul 22, 2023
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First off I couldn't comment and won't on gear I haven't heard it's safer that way 😂
But inline with the comments a room is a huge factor usually never factored into a Hifi budget but in your case your comparing speakers in the same room so that's something you can sideline.
Speaker placement is always different from speaker to speaker, some prefer wider apart and further away, some prefer a flat plane like the Fynes I have now in my main Hifi where as some like toe in like the QA's in the bedroom, sh?t I've even had a pair of tannoys once that liked ever slight toe out and as you can imagine they where both odd and hard to sit with not wanting to straighten them all the time, but if your room allows as I see on your photo you suffer the same problems most do and have one speaker in the dreaded corner of "boom and echo" and perhaps both too close to the wall, especially if they are rear pored it's a recipe for overcooked bass etc.
But as with life I realise that a functional room is not always hifi friendly room and changing it would cause it to become nonfunctional for anything else but if you can moving the speakers out from the corner and although counterintuitive out from the walls into the room always improves things.
Inch them towards you either side until the soundstage opens up, to fine-tune slightly creep them further, then listen with the lights off or with your eyes shut and when you can't tell where the speakers are playing obviously without cheating 😁 you've got the best soundstage your gear and current room set-up are capable of.
I was shown this trick by a Hifi dealer once and found it a quick way of fast tracking whole speaker placement process, but having my listening room also moonlight as the living room with a partner in it 😂 I had to go for downward firing ports to do away with the problems of having speakers close to walls (although they still inherits some of the other placement problems)
You sound like you might end up down that same hifi rabbit hole a lot of us are already in, it ends up expensive very quickly but then again so are the golf clubs, cycling, season tickets, cars and other things people hobby with and if like most already indulge in a few of the above.
I have demoed, owned and swapped through all sorts to a main System that envokes genuine frission yet I still look even now as with anything in life for improvements 🤷
What's prominent to mind is when spending big you will both have to and always will end up spending much more to improve upon that and so on and so forth, it's become my experience once into the higher end stuff the jumps in quality become much smaller and exponentially more expensive but to a music lover always worth it, I've heard the whole "end game" hifi sentence from many a passionate enthusiast to find them with a different something or other a few yrs down the line
Anyway let us know how you get on 👍
But inline with the comments a room is a huge factor usually never factored into a Hifi budget but in your case your comparing speakers in the same room so that's something you can sideline.
Speaker placement is always different from speaker to speaker, some prefer wider apart and further away, some prefer a flat plane like the Fynes I have now in my main Hifi where as some like toe in like the QA's in the bedroom, sh?t I've even had a pair of tannoys once that liked ever slight toe out and as you can imagine they where both odd and hard to sit with not wanting to straighten them all the time, but if your room allows as I see on your photo you suffer the same problems most do and have one speaker in the dreaded corner of "boom and echo" and perhaps both too close to the wall, especially if they are rear pored it's a recipe for overcooked bass etc.
But as with life I realise that a functional room is not always hifi friendly room and changing it would cause it to become nonfunctional for anything else but if you can moving the speakers out from the corner and although counterintuitive out from the walls into the room always improves things.
Inch them towards you either side until the soundstage opens up, to fine-tune slightly creep them further, then listen with the lights off or with your eyes shut and when you can't tell where the speakers are playing obviously without cheating 😁 you've got the best soundstage your gear and current room set-up are capable of.
I was shown this trick by a Hifi dealer once and found it a quick way of fast tracking whole speaker placement process, but having my listening room also moonlight as the living room with a partner in it 😂 I had to go for downward firing ports to do away with the problems of having speakers close to walls (although they still inherits some of the other placement problems)
You sound like you might end up down that same hifi rabbit hole a lot of us are already in, it ends up expensive very quickly but then again so are the golf clubs, cycling, season tickets, cars and other things people hobby with and if like most already indulge in a few of the above.
I have demoed, owned and swapped through all sorts to a main System that envokes genuine frission yet I still look even now as with anything in life for improvements 🤷
What's prominent to mind is when spending big you will both have to and always will end up spending much more to improve upon that and so on and so forth, it's become my experience once into the higher end stuff the jumps in quality become much smaller and exponentially more expensive but to a music lover always worth it, I've heard the whole "end game" hifi sentence from many a passionate enthusiast to find them with a different something or other a few yrs down the line
Anyway let us know how you get on 👍
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- May 9, 2024
- 71
- 35
- 570
Thanks a lot for your tip on speakers positioning.
Yesterday evening I could not listen a full LP. I felt oppressed and my ears could not stand a single note.
I positioned them at 3m quite straight of the sofa. Then I tuned them slightly to the sofa. I moved them closed, and closed to reach a 2,40 m.
So far the less worse positionning is the wider I can oriented to the sofa.
I live alone and I pay a lot of attention to the whole living room. Best name for a place to live in. Mine has to be pleasant and I have reached that goal. Regretfully, the sound is hurting my ears.
Yesterday evening I could not listen a full LP. I felt oppressed and my ears could not stand a single note.
I positioned them at 3m quite straight of the sofa. Then I tuned them slightly to the sofa. I moved them closed, and closed to reach a 2,40 m.
So far the less worse positionning is the wider I can oriented to the sofa.
I live alone and I pay a lot of attention to the whole living room. Best name for a place to live in. Mine has to be pleasant and I have reached that goal. Regretfully, the sound is hurting my ears.
How? Too bright? Bass boom? Please be specific.
Do the two speakers and your seating position form an equilateral triangle?
Ah, just seen your photo. They seem okay position wise.
- May 9, 2024
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Actually the sound was booming and oppressing.
I am just coming home and here are the distance with walls.
Here is the pic from the sofa at the very same height and distance from my ears
The current positioning is optimal for now, although it might be a bit too far. However, moving it closer doesn't suit my taste.
I am just coming home and here are the distance with walls.
Here is the pic from the sofa at the very same height and distance from my ears
The current positioning is optimal for now, although it might be a bit too far. However, moving it closer doesn't suit my taste.
Jasonovich
Well-known member
- Jul 28, 2022
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Having searched this appears to be the site where you bought them.
Home
www.recital-audio.com
They’re sold direct with no dealership involved. As a beginner that’s a risky path to take. A good dealer is worth their weight in gold. On a positive note you seem happy with the overall tone. It’s just the bass that’s problematic.
It’s likely the room is having a big effect. Room correction software like DIRAC LIVE can negate room problems but it needs compatible hardware.
More importantly, with an analogue source there’s no way of using room correction software. So you’re going to have to either move them forward or if they’re rear-ported use bungs to reduce the bass. It’s quite normal to do that. Simple solutions are often the easiest and cheapest ones.
- May 9, 2024
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A big thank you to each and every one of you here for your time, advice, patience, and expertise. Your generosity is truly touching. Once again, if any of you ever feel like crossing the Channel and making your way down to Toulouse, there will be a fine beer or a good glass of wine waiting to accompany a listening session!
By the way, not so far from Stade Toulousain arena. ;-)
Regarding the bungs, I am surprised to see how common this solution seems to be. I was not familiar with it and must admit it makes me question the designer's work a bit.
The positioning shown in the photo offers the best compromise at this point. Not all music styles fare equally. Classical, Baroque, and Romantic music with not too much bass and at a fairly high volume sound magnificent. Jazz in a trio setting remains superb. However, anything in the pop-rock and metal genres quickly becomes tiring, oppressive, muddy, and unclear.
By the way, not so far from Stade Toulousain arena. ;-)
Regarding the bungs, I am surprised to see how common this solution seems to be. I was not familiar with it and must admit it makes me question the designer's work a bit.
The positioning shown in the photo offers the best compromise at this point. Not all music styles fare equally. Classical, Baroque, and Romantic music with not too much bass and at a fairly high volume sound magnificent. Jazz in a trio setting remains superb. However, anything in the pop-rock and metal genres quickly becomes tiring, oppressive, muddy, and unclear.
@BenWatts , very kind offer thanks. 😀
You’re right that classical etc. doesn’t have large amounts of bass which is why you’re happy with that type of music. But with rock the bass is problematic. Bungs were shipped with my B&W CM4s back in 2000 but I didn’t need to use them. They’ll temper the bottom end. Bit like reducing bass on an amp with tone controls. 😉
If you really feel you can’t temper the bass here’s a radical solution. Buy a Bluesound Node Icon streamer and subscribe to TIDAL. For £11 a month you can have access to millions of tunes. The Icon is compatible with DIRAC LIVE so it can correct the excess bass you’re hearing. Around £1100 all in but it means going digital. Food for thought.
You’re right that classical etc. doesn’t have large amounts of bass which is why you’re happy with that type of music. But with rock the bass is problematic. Bungs were shipped with my B&W CM4s back in 2000 but I didn’t need to use them. They’ll temper the bottom end. Bit like reducing bass on an amp with tone controls. 😉
If you really feel you can’t temper the bass here’s a radical solution. Buy a Bluesound Node Icon streamer and subscribe to TIDAL. For £11 a month you can have access to millions of tunes. The Icon is compatible with DIRAC LIVE so it can correct the excess bass you’re hearing. Around £1100 all in but it means going digital. Food for thought.
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