What is good hi fi for you

[MeanandGreen]

That's what good hi fi sound is to me. If I can just enjoy the recorded music for what it is (good or bad production quality) without feeling like the system (or the interaction with the room) are missing something, then I'm happy. To me this is a well defined full bass, crisp detailed treble, natural midrange and good stereo image. I don't beleive this is an expensive thing to achieve either. It's more about care of set up and attention to detail rather than outright cost.

Good hi fi to me does need to include certain user features. CD/SACD & Vinyl playback are a must as is a means to listen to a digital storage library in one form or another. A recording facility and a means to access internet audio either as radio or streaming are also important to me.

Also good flexibility with regards to connectivity and a good headphone output are important too.

 

[Gazzip]

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Asus may well be the better disc spinner on paper, but any increase in information retrieval associated with that (which I doubt there is) pales in to insignificance if the drive sounds like a jet engine full of gravel winding up when playing, as the Asus does... The Plextor drive runs silently hence my choice to go with that make/model.

Worth 30 notes all day for silence, I hadnt thought of that. last time the disc was spinning while I was listening was a good while ago.

FWIW I have a Jcat usb isolator coming today - I will let you know if its any good. For me looking at the innuos as I said before its a no brainer but I will let you know how it fairs in my audio pc setup which is already far more comprehensive

Calling ellisdj - How did you get on with the Jcat USB Isolator? Worth the outlay?

 

[ellisdj]

Hahahaha - great - I was going to start a thread.

I have only had limited time with it as thr JCAT USB cable I bought only arrive Monday - I have been putting hours on it and got about a 45 minute listen yesterday at proper volume.

What I would say is your innuos is a audio pc with maybe 10/50 optimisations done to it at a guess.

I have done at 35-40/50 optimisations and I wasnt expecting much from the isolator if I am honest as I have already done so much to reduce noise etc

Quick synopsis - get your credit card out and get one dude - you get 2 weeks trial to return it if your not happy but I will eat my hat if you send it back.

Its an abosulte cracker - but bear in mind the cable from the isolator to the dac or whatever is the important one. I bought the JCat Iso cable because I know they are worth the money. It is very short though.

 

[Gazzip]

Hahahaha - great - I was going to start a thread.

I have only had limited time with it as thr JCAT USB cable I bought only arrive Monday - I have been putting hours on it and got about a 45 minute listen yesterday at proper volume.

What I would say is your innuos is a audio pc with maybe 10/50 optimisations done to it at a guess.

I have done at 35-40/50 optimisations and I wasnt expecting much from the isolator if I am honest as I have already done so much to reduce noise etc

Quick synopsis - get your credit card out and get one dude - you get 2 weeks trial to return it if your not happy but I will eat my hat if you send it back.

Its an abosulte cracker - but bear in mind the cable from the isolator to the dac or whatever is the important one. I bought the JCat Iso cable because I know they are worth the money. It is very short though.

Gonna have to find some money from somewhere then if it is that good... *scratch_one-s_head*

Dude, I am in such a hole after the ARC Ref 6 purchase! If Mrs Gazzip ever finds out what that cost me then I will be one of those members on here who starts a post with; "I am downsizing my system due to a change in circumstances and an unexpected house move.". Know what I mean? *blush*

 

[ellisdj]

Wait until you start blacking your room out then you might be in for a sudden house move and ebay sale

I have been walking real thin ice with swmbo for last year. She is on maternity leave as well lol

There is also a big minus where money used to be but its first time i can say sonically i am comtept with how things are at the minute.

Cant put a price on that hahaha

 

[Gazzip]

Funnily enough Mrs Gazzip is also on maternity leave. Great for her but makes finding a window to smuggle large, heavy boxes full of electronics in and out of the house a tad difficult... I feel your pain!

 

[ellisdj]

The isolator is only the size of a box of fags easy to hide that one.

House size pmc and bryston boxes not so much ....

 

[Gazzip]

Just looking in to the jCat and I am struggling to see a difference (save for price and aesthetics) between it and the Intona? Are they identical do you know?

http://intona.eu/en/products

 

[ellisdj]

They are identical internals however the intona comes in a white plastic box with blue led.

The jcat comes with a black aluminium case which is obviously better screened.

Some people who bought the intona have since bought the jcat case. Others have messed around with copper tape to try and screen the plastic case.

The rrp on jcat stuff is a little higher because most people that buy it use jplay so get 10% off. So the prices are 10% higher as a result.

Hope that makes sense what i mean there. If you say you know me they might give you something off. I dont know them personally but they do know who i am.

Having read your comments on other threads i think we have a similar appreciation of good sound. So i am confident you will appreciate what this does.

Its worth reading on the jplay forums at what people have done to their audio pcs and the results its given. There might be other things you can glean / try with yours

However i have read that the isolator in a way makes a lot of the pc optimisations redundant as it completely regenerates the usb signal which is ultimately the last link before the dac.

However i am not sure how true that is and i cant see me going back to a more stock pc. However my point before was not explained well. If that is true you will get more benefit than me and i am very pleased with what i appear to have got.

I could explain the areas but i need more time listening to do so more comprehensively.

 

[iMark]

They are identical internals however the intona comes in a white plastic box with blue led.

The jcat comes with a black aluminium case which is obviously better screened.

Some people who bought the intona have since bought the jcat case. Others have messed around with copper tape to try and screen the plastic case.

Have you tried this cable on a USB printer? Do you get prints now with more colour definition?

The price of snake oil has just gone up again!

 

[insider9]

They are identical internals however the intona comes in a white plastic box with blue led.

The jcat comes with a black aluminium case which is obviously better screened.

Some people who bought the intona have since bought the jcat case. Others have messed around with copper tape to try and screen the plastic case.

Have you tried this cable on a USB printer? Do you get prints now with more colour definition?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The price of snake oil has just gone up again!

Come on...

Have you any first hand experience with the unit discussed?

I very much rather read forum members' opinions than professional reviews. Yes, some are exaggerated but you shouldn't dismiss them out of hand.

 

[steve_1979]

I very much rather read forum members' opinions than professional reviews. Yes, some are exaggerated but you shouldn't dismiss them out of hand.

You should dismiss them when they claim a USB cable changes the sound.

 

[insider9]

I very much rather read forum members' opinions than professional reviews. Yes, some are exaggerated but you shouldn't dismiss them out of hand.

You should dismiss them when they claim a USB cable changes the sound.

And that only proves my point. We have two opposing views and on that basis it's easier to form an opinion. The more the better.

By the way, I am sceptical about the discussed product. Although, I wouldn't dismiss it on that basis alone.

 

[iMark]

I very much rather read forum members' opinions than professional reviews. Yes, some are exaggerated but you shouldn't dismiss them out of hand.

I'd much rather see reports on double blind testing in a controlled experiment. All of the opinions about digital cables suffer from expectation bias. There is no way a USB cable, or any digital cable for that matter, can make any one iota of difference in the real (analogue) world. Since things haved moved on from analogue to digital cables the cable producers have been feeding off the fact that HiFi enthousiasts have been brought up on the ideas about better materials, better shielding etc and therefore fall for all the marketing nonsense about digital cables. Digital cables don't do anything but transport bits from one machine to another. If the cable is in working order, all bits will arrive at the other end. If they don't, the cable is faulty. There is nothing else happening.

The expectation bias is that an impressive looking cable has to 'sound' better than a cheap printer cable. It won't sound any different, just like the output from your printer won't improve by using an expensive cable. With HDMI cables it has been proven many times that cheap cables will produce exactly the same picture and sound as expensive cables. I do understand that the fact that in digital cables the material or price of the cable don't make any difference is completely counterintuitive for most Hifi enthusiasts but your money is much better spent on equipment, discs and hires files rather than on digital cables. My best Hifi buy ever were two digital coax cables from John Lewis that were on sale for 50p each. They work, so they're perfect.

Here's some interesting reading on expensive HDMI cables.

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/tvs-entertainment/7976/expensive-hdmi-cables-make-no-difference-and-heres-why

 

[insider9]

I very much rather read forum members' opinions than professional reviews. Yes, some are exaggerated but you shouldn't dismiss them out of hand.

I'd much rather see reports on double blind testing in a controlled experiment. All of the opinions about digital cables suffer from expectation bias. There is no way a USB cable, or any digital cable for that matter, can make any one iota of difference in the real (analogue) world. Since things haved moved on from analogue to digital cables the cable producers have been feeding off the fact that HiFi enthousiasts have been brought up on the ideas about better materials, better shielding etc and therefore fall for all the marketing nonsense about digital cables. Digital cables don't do anything but transport bits from one machine to another. If the cable is in working order, all bits will arrive at the other end. If they don't, the cable is faulty. There is nothing else happening.

The expectation bias is that an impressive looking cable has to 'sound' better than a cheap printer cable. It won't sound any different, just like the output from your printer won't improve by using an expensive cable. With HDMI cables it has been proven many times that cheap cables will produce exactly the same picture and sound as expensive cables. I do understand that the fact that in digital cables the material or price of the cable don't make any difference is completely counterintuitive for most Hifi enthusiasts but your money is much better spent on equipment, discs and hires files rather than on digital cables. My best Hifi buy ever were two digital coax cables from John Lewis that were on sale for 50p each. They work, so they're perfect.

Here's some interesting reading on expensive HDMI cables. 

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/tvs-entertainment/7976/expensive-hdmi-cables-make-no-difference-and-heres-why

I don't disagree in principle. I never tried a similar type of product so don't have a first hand experience. I probably never will own such device.

I do however find it interesting to read that Ellis thinks it's useful. At the end of the day, he thinks it's money well spent. Who am I to disagree with that?

 

[steve_1979]

And that only proves my point. We have two opposing views and on that basis it's easier to form an opinion.

That's where you make your mistake. The way a USB cable functions has absolutely nothing to do with personal opinion. It's a case of what is and isn't physically possible.

Anyone who unserstands how the technology works will know that a USB cable can't possibly change the way music sounds. It either works perfectly or it doesn't. Simple as that.

Anyway, I've been thorough this discussion more times than I care to remember so I'm out. Enjoy your Sunday.

 

[iMark]

I do however find it interesting to read that Ellis thinks it's useful. At the end of the day, he thinks it's money well spent. Who am I to disagree with that?

Obviously Ellis can spend his money any way he likes. I couldn't care less if he spends thousands on snake oil.The trouble is that new readers may think that what he writes makes sense and will waste their money on stuff they don't need, like expensive digital cables. If esoteric personal opinions aren't opposed, they will lead to misinformation. There is no way an expensive USB cable can make any difference in sound, whatever Ellis thinks.

 

[shadders]

Hi,

I examined the jcat website and can see that the Isolator costs €365 and has electronics within the box, and the USB cable costs €349 and is just a bit of wire.

There is no mention of galvanic isolation being designed into the cable, where this aspect has been reported to reduce noise and jitter.

As such, this €349 cable is just that, a cable, that connects your streamer/PC to the DAC input, and will cause jitter (example) to the audio signal replication that has been reported as an issue.

The Isolator would be the better purchase for €16 extra. This would probably correlate with the reported statements that jitter reduction improves the sound.

What is an issue as stated recently by others on this forum, is expectation bias.

If those people who actually "believe" that they can hear a difference can state that they do not accept the scientific evidence that expectation bias exists, then we will at least know.

If they do believe the scientific fact that expectation bias does exist, yet still want to believe their ears/brain contrary to scientific proof, then at least they can admit this.

Would it therefore be wrong (morally) for them to encourage others to waste their money knowing that what they and others are hearing is false?

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[ellisdj]

They are identical internals however the intona comes in a white plastic box with blue led.

The jcat comes with a black aluminium case which is obviously better screened.

Some people who bought the intona have since bought the jcat case. Others have messed around with copper tape to try and screen the plastic case.

Have you tried this cable on a USB printer? Do you get prints now with more colour definition?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The price of snake oil has just gone up again!

We are not discussing a cable so your attempt at sarcasm is not welcome.

We are discussing a unit designed for manufacturing where exact usb signals are essential. Look it up before being a plank

 

[ellisdj]

Shadders I was having a personal conversation there.

However if someone is looking to me for advice - the only advice I would say is ignore everyone and just try things for yourself.

Doesnt matter what anyone else says - it only matters what the end result is to you and what you have to do to get it there.

Most people that post on here have not achieved anything like the pinnacle of audio reproduction in the home so in reality noone has any more the cred than anyone else.

If some has achieved it I would love to come and hear it please

 

[iMark]

We are not discussing a cable so your attempt at sarcasm is not welcome.

We are discussing a unit designed for manufacturing where exact usb signals are essential. Look it up before being a plank

You were discussing a USB cable in message #78 in this thread. And you're advising someone to take their credit card out for a cable that by definition doesn't do anything.

http://www.whathifi.com/comment/1017732#comment-1017732

I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'm just stating the bleeding obvious. It's not what you want to hear but that's not my problem.

And if you want to have a personal conversation with someone on the internet, please use other means than a public forum. By definition you can't have a personal conversation on a public forum. Try email instead.

 

[chebby]

We are not discussing a cable so your attempt at sarcasm is not welcome.

We are discussing a unit designed for manufacturing where exact usb signals are essential. Look it up before being a plank

You were discussing a USB cable in message #78 in this thread. And you're advising someone to take their credit card out for a cable that by definition doesn't do anything.

http://www.whathifi.com/comment/1017732#comment-1017732

I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'm just stating the bleeding obvious. It's not what you want to hear but that's not my problem.

And if you want to have a personal conversation with someone on the internet, please use other means than a public forum. By definition you can't have a personal conversation on a public forum. Try email instead.

+1

Well said. Thank you.

 

[ellisdj]

Someone specifically asked me for my opinion on what we was discussing and i gave it to him.

Funny i dont remember him asking either of you for yours.

That is also not what you want to hear but blah blah blah.

So there was no need for you to post as you have. You're obviously bored and are trying to turn this thread into a cable debate. No need at all.

 

[iMark]

Someone specifically asked me for my opinion on what we was discussing and i gave it to him.

Funny i dont remember him asking either of you for yours.

That is also fact if you like it or not

So there was no need for you to post as you have. You're obviously bored and are trying to turn this thread into a cable debate. No need at all.

Don't try to turn this into something it isn't. You started all this by mentioning a USB cable in post #78, which you can't deny. And since this is a public forum, any member can post in this or any thread. Permission from you or anyone else is not needed. So whether someone asked for an opinion or not is irrelevant. For personal conversations without being interrupted you may consider using email.

 

[ellisdj]

So whether someone asked for an opinion or not is irrelevant.

Read that again and see who is turning this into something its not