What happened to the Jcat thread?

[cheeseboy]

I now only use 2 12v rails and underlcock the whole system as much as I can get away with - so its hardly on but its well overspec'd as I didnt realise at the time

why would you underclock? Just get a low powered cpu that's fit for purpose. I'm trying to work out why you buy a load of overpowered stuff then directly cripple it. In some cases that actually makes things perform worse.

edit - apologies, I just saw the comment about you overspeccing when you first bought, in which case please feel free to ignore this question.

 

[ellisdj]

its all about noise noise and more noise - and trying to reduce it as much as possible - thats why underclocking and everything I have stated above. Its surprising the effect it has and again there are people all over the world that share consensus on this, I have literally turned everything off I can on my mobo bios even all the usb sockets except 2 - no idea if that matters but made snese to me to. Its truely a dedicated audio PC and pretty much turns off when listening to music which is easily audibly superior. This can be tried for free as well but make sure if anyone does it they see how to reverse it.

In terms of another OS yes I am sure a Linux based os likely would be better than windows - but for me I know windows, its easy to install drivers and software etc. Then thanks to CAD free scripts it shuts down most things and sounds a whole lot better as a result top thumbs up to him. You dont need to be more skilled than a good pc user to do this which is wonderful if you ask me - that goes for all of this - you dont need to be an audio engineer to have a play

Testing, memory, blind, science etc - This is no different to testing anything else - its all about what you hear at the end of the day - I test and know more than the majority about room acoustics and measuring rooms but still I believe in using my ears - end of the day thats all I care about what I hear.

In terms of what David said - he didnt know what or wasnt JPlay he just heard the system play some songs and said those words about it - as well as other stuff - he has heard the What Hifi reference system playing into Dali Epicons same as me as I was there for that dali event as well so he has heard a very good sound in a very good room before.

I can only share my own experiences - I have started a thread for my room and system on AVF - a few people will no doubt come for a listen and comment back - you can read Davids comments they are on there - it doesnt say the exact words I used - he said those words outloud and has typed something different still very complimentary.

As I said this might not be for everyone but some people are very interested in it - there are new names with low postings popping up on the jplay forum all the time.

In terms of total cost 99 euros for the software - out of the total cost is very small, one copy per family and its free upgrades for life and there is a new update in the pipline I heard about the other day.

I didnt think there woudl be another one until Windows 10 but they say they have improved SQ even more looking forward to that

 

[ellisdj]

In additon jplay runs in the cache of the cpu - a few people have tested various cpus and said the i7 sounds best - I went with that advice - I assumed due to the cache size. Other people say server boards and Xeon processors are best but I had no experience pf them and just got an asus board that I have done a number of pc builds so know their boards bios the best

I originally had a haswell cpu but had nightmares with driver compatibility - its a better platform as uses less power but was no good when it first came out - drivers are always behind hardware so I went back to what I knew worked with my hardware at the time a 2700k

 

[RobinKidderminster]

If its only me thinking all this is simply too much to handle then I'll stay away from this thread. Does it all make good sense? Sorry.

 

[cheeseboy]

In additon jplay runs in the cache of the cpu...

that part is marketing bs. The software runs as a service, not in the cache. They've (the creators of jplay) have been questioned about this many many times and have never been able to prove it is. The way that CPU's work with their cache, it's just not possible to run something like jplay in the computers cache. There's only 8mb cache on an i7 that you are talking about, and given the cache has to handle all sorts of processes, there just isn't room, even if it was possible.

 

[cheeseboy]

its all about noise noise and more noise - and trying to reduce it as much as possible - thats why underclocking and everything I have stated above. Its surprising the effect it has and again there are people all over the world that share consensus on this,

likewise, I could probably find as many people who would say the opposite. I agree about not wanting noise, but some of the things you are talking about will have no effect on noise whatsoever.

In terms of another OS yes I am sure a Linux based os likely would be better than windows - but for me I know windows, its easy to install drivers and software etc.

you don't need to know linux to use daphile, you can even run it from a usb stick without affecting your current setup, you should try it. To be honest, it won't give you a better sound quality as it's just as bit perfect for output as all the other bitperfect output software, but for a placebo it might work quite nicely knowing it's only made for playback of audio.

Then thanks to CAD free scripts it shuts down most things and sounds a whole lot better as a result top thumbs up to him. You dont need to be more skilled than a good pc user to do this which is wonderful if you ask me - that goes for all of this - you dont need to be an audio engineer to have a play

I tired them, made no difference.

Testing, memory, blind, science etc - This is no different to testing anything else - its all about what you hear at the end of the day - I test and know more than the majority about room acoustics and measuring rooms but still I believe in using my ears - end of the day thats all I care about what I hear.

Thats fine and dandy and I agree with you. However, if all that matters to you I would honestly stick to that as you keep repeating some "facts" contained in some of the websites you visit that are just incorrect I'm afraid.

In terms of total cost 99 euros for the software - out of the total cost is very small, one copy per family and its free upgrades for life and there is a new update in the pipline I heard about the other day.

honestly, there's no point in spending 99 euros for something that will give me the same results as something for free (foobar for example)

Some proof with graphs and stuff http://archimago.blogspot.nl/2013/06/measurements-part-ii-bit-perfect.html

Ellis, I'm sure you have a damn fine sounding system and I'm sure I'd love listening to it, please don't get me wrong, it's just that some of the stuff you are coming out with (with regards to how stuff works) is just toooo wrong. Sure, if you hear it, that's all that's important, but I can tell you that some of it *is* placebo and there are ways you can test it to prove this, which I *wouldn't* expect you to do unless you were actually serious about wanting to challenge your own, what seem to be, quite dearly held beliefs.

 

[ellisdj]

I only got the cache info from my cousin - he got me into it so you could well be right I dont know otherwise - i was just trying to justify to myself why it was suggested to get an i7 over an i5 for example and sharing that.

me and my cousin tested with and without JPlay (this was long before I started using it) the music was clearer with jplay -quite clearly better with better timing.

This was on a normal pc no optimisation at all - it was clear to me at the time and I had no interest in it at all - so nothing vested but he asked me for a second opinion to what he had been hearing and I agreed with him which is something we very rarely do.

I am surprised you heard no difference from the scripts - you are the only person it seems to think that I have asked about it - in fact some people even list it on their system signatures below on their forum accounts - that says a lot.

Scott who wrote is a legend in my eyes for doing it - he could sell it if he wanted but he has allowed it for free

 

[SteveR750]

Apologies as I skipped the last page, but am I missing something (ref your post # 18), surely what you describe (noisy electronics, poor CD drive etc) are only valid if the laptop is being used to convert to analogue and if you are using the CD drive as a CD player?

Once a file is ripped, and checksummed, it's 100% there, whatever the quality of the drive. If you connect your PC using an optical output device, it is totally isolated from the laptop. Unless I've completely mistaken how the FLAC codec works (or any audio file codec for that matter) a noisy motherboard cannot add sound in the digital domain. J River claim and explain comprehensively on their own web site and forum how to set up bit perfect streaming using their media centre, on any laptop.

This is also very helpful.

 

[pauln]

I only got the cache info from my cousin - he got me into it so you could well be right I dont know otherwise - i was just trying to justify to myself why it was suggested to get an i7 over an i5 for example and sharing that.

me and my cousin tested with and without JPlay (this was long before I started using it) the music was clearer with jplay -quite clearly better with better timing.

This was on a normal pc no optimisation at all - it was clear to me at the time and I had no interest in it at all - so nothing vested but he asked me for a second opinion to what he had been hearing and I agreed with him which is something we very rarely do.

I am surprised you heard no difference from the scripts - you are the only person it seems to think that I have asked about it - in fact some people even list it on their system signatures below on their forum accounts - that says a lot.

Scott who wrote is a legend in my eyes for doing it - he could sell it if he wanted but he has allowed it for free

According to Jplay the software loads the entire playlist to RAM (full memory playback) to avoid having any HDD activity whilst playing the music. If this is the case (and there is no reason to doubt it provided one has enough RAM) my question to you is how can you possibly hear a difference between different sata cables when, according to Jplay themselves, they are quite obviously not being utilised for playbacck? That then begs the question why pay 300 Euros for a Jcat sata cable? I even read one comment on the Jplay forum where someone claimed to be able to hear the difference between a straight sata connector and a right angled one! Yet it's not involved in the playback! They so obviously rely on the gullibility and lack of knowledge of some people in order to sell their wares. What is even more astonishing, is when sensible, rational people try to explain how computers do actually work and why these apparent differences in sound are due to the way are brains interpret audio and other stimuli, they are met with such stubborn resistance.

I have often watched the sun sink into the sea at the end of the day, I know for certain that it does because I can see it with my own eyes yet, as if by some miracle, in the morning it appears to rise out of the ground behind me! Are my eyes deceiving me? Surely not; we must trust our senses implicitly and absolutely.

 

[ellisdj]

For the 2 posts above - the same logic is put to people time and time again - you are not the first person to question the products due to the design - people was questioning this years ago - when Paul Pang started praising the first sata cables he upgraded people laughed at him - now those same people buy them from him. I was not into this back then, only the last 2 years for me

I am not the expert in this arena and dont claim to be - but I do know that all cables are antennae for picking up high frequency noise - and the OS HD is suggested as the most important area to concentrate on reducing this noise to - by power and cabling to such, also vibration control. Its a twisted one I agree, noone knows for sure but the result is conclusive to me and all the other people who have tried them - I have tested powering my OS SSD from the pico power supply (fed from Linear Power Supply), my linear power supply directly and from a battery directly - they all sound different - not tonally different but with different harshness / clarity - you can clearly hear one is cleaner than the next or vise versa. The battery is by far the best providing the cable to the ssd is decent otherwise you lose dynamics - thats gospal truth. For a battery I use either an Anker E4 which are brilliant considering they are for charging phones or the better solution is a Bakoon BPS-02 the Jcat battery is a bakoon - these are much more expensive but also much better and self charging

I got the Linear Power supply first - that was the first thing I upgraded to a standard fanless pc - huge improvement to harmonic richness and consistency of the soundstage - also less harshness

Then I got the JCat sata cable - these were new out - I had 30 days to return it but soon it replaced a £6 one the scale of the system doubled - I have no idea how but it honestly did - this was not placebo or in my head - expectation bias BS this was a tangible difference thats been there ever since. Loads of people have tried them and noone returns them.

Look through all the positive feedback - you can see my comments straight away

These are no idoiots buying these products some of them are engineers and work in IT and all sorts, some of them are working on integrating software for jplay as we speak - I have followed the advice of the community since in different ways and they have never let me down - the advice is always very good.

 

[cheeseboy]

I am not the expert in this arena and dont claim to be

then maybe you should take note of those that are...

and the OS HD is suggested as the most important area to concentrate on reducing this noise to - by power and cabling to such, also vibration control.

if you're using an SSD there is no vibration!

this was not placebo or in my head - expectation bias BS

it *IS* placebo/expectation bias. If you don't believe me I've told you how you can test it. If you do not wish to test it, that's fine, but please don't say it's not when there is a very easy way to prove that it is. You've already admitted that you're not an expert and don't claim to be, so why make counter claims?

Also ellis, as sad as it is to say it, you are again avoiding any evidence that's points against your beliefs. I posted the link about the testing between jplay and foobar being the same output and you still refuse to acknowlege or talk about it (the lack of acknowledgement is actually very rude imho), instead you continue to stick your head in the sand and go "la la la I'm not listening, eveyboy on the jplay forums is 100% correct la la la".

I have followed the advice of the community since in different ways and they have never let me down - the advice is always very good.

If this is the same community that believes that jplay is running from the cpu cache then yes, they have let you down because they have flat out lied.

 

[ellisdj]

Noone has lied they tell you what they think and you chose to believe them or not - what is wrong with that. When there is consensus then thats usually a good place to start trying things out - when that works well, I try other things out and thats how its been for me - I have been constantly improving my stereo playback at home this last 2 years bit by bit, if I had more budget I would have done more still but more to come is always exciting.

It doesnt bother me that you dont believe me either, I know what I have achieved in terms of audio playback following the advice of the JPlay community from my audio pc and its way beyond anything that my previous streamer was putting out. Way beyond - so far beyond its incredible and I am extremely happy about that as I have been able to do that myself - rather than settling for a product thats not really cutting it as I have found with a lot I have bought over the years.

The test you suggest will prove nothing to me - there are tests done between flac and wav showing no difference yet countless people hear a difference between them.

I test with my own parameters and that is what I hear and see / experience. I dont care about anything else - why should I or anyone else for that matter. I dont need to prove what I say to you - however I could sit anyone down and prove it to them outright with just how good the sound is coming off a computer setup this way and how versaitle it is in regards to music styles - being played back on a AV system still to very high standards. Major Limitations now being room size and room acoustics despite all the work I have done there as well and a couple of other bits

I know good sound - and what it takes to get it and I am learning all the time how to improve it even further - I would personally go which ever route gives me the opportunity for best sound within my affordability and this is the route I have chosen as so far its given me by miles the best results - nothing else I have experienced as a source has come close. If this wasnt the case I would not be using it - Its a simple as that - I have had the money to pretty much buy whatever I want within reason time you add up what I have spent in total the last 2 years. I have chosen this for good reason - maybe its not for you - doesnt mean its not very good.

I dont see why people like get so bent out of shape about this subject and have to try and discredit me and what I say. Its pety I dont try and discredit other people in the forum when they voice an opinion even though I disagree with half of what they say.

People can say speakers sound like this - and thats accepted even though the rooms they are in is not letting them hear anything like what the speaker is producing, in fact they are hearing a room created echo not the speakers at all - but they are hearing it and its accepted - they do not measure they just listen and thats still accepted, There is a good chance if the speakers are in the same spot as the last pair they are hearing a similar echo to before but its still accepted - people like me dont look to discredit them by pointing that out despite its obvious relevance

But I hear as do thousands of others the huge improvments made by the above products which are similar to completely credible products that in the market for sale and yet thats not good enough and people like you feel the need to try and discredit that opinion to the point of highlighting bits word to word. That is uneccessary vindictive behaviour as I said in the last thread that was locked.

 

[cheeseboy]

Noone has lied they tell you what they think and you chose to believe them or not - what is wrong with that.

because when somebody says it's running from cache and it's not, that's a lie. Is it really that hard to comprehend?

The test you suggest will prove nothing to me

yes it would - it would prove if the sata cable is making a real world difference, or if the differences you are hearing is a placebo/expectation bias. You say that it's not, but unless you carried out some tests, you cannot say for a fact that it is not a placebo. This is not a debatable point I'm afriad.

I test with my own parameters and that is what I hear and see / experience. I dont care about anything else - why should I or anyone else for that matter.

You don't need to, but don't take umbridge then when people point out flaws and facts that are not true.

I dont need to prove what I say to you

correct you don't, but again, don't get upset if I say that you are wrong and what you are talking about is not true. If you want to counterbalance that, then yes, I would expect some proof.

however I could sit anyone down and prove it to them outright with just how good the sound is coming off a computer setup this way and how versaitle it is in regards to music styles - being played back on a AV system still to very high standards. Major Limitations now being room size and room acoustics despite all the work I have done there as well and a couple of other bits

Again, I've not disputed how good your system sounds, I'm disputing what you are saying about what effects it.

I know good sound - and what it takes to get it and I am learning all the time how to improve it even further - I would personally go which ever route gives me the opportunity for best sound within my affordability and this is the route I have chosen as so far its given me by miles the best results - nothing else I have experienced as a source has come close. If this wasnt the case I would not be using it - Its a simple as that - I have had the money to pretty much buy whatever I want within reason time you add up what I have spent in total the last 2 years. I have chosen this for good reason - maybe its not for you - doesnt mean its not very good.

again, subjective defensive trying to justify your outlay. Again, let me repeat, I've never questioned how good your system sounds. Why do you keep defending something that I've not attacked?

I dont see why people like get so bent out of shape about this subject and have to try and discredit me and what I say

possibly because a lot of what you say is rubbish, not factual, totally subjective and can be proven wrong quite easily, yet you refuse to engage in such discussions and always refer back to the jplay forums.

Its pety I dont try and discredit other people in the forum when they voice an opinion even though I disagree with half of what they say.

no ellis, what is petty is totally ignoring when somebody takes the time to explain how something actually works, posts links to back up the proof and then you chose to ingore it. Again, I've tried to discuss rationally these things with you, and again you are getting upset when presented with such information. This thread was not doing anything and you kept adding to it, trying to justify things that nobody was interested in. I only replied because I thought I would try debating you again in a rational manner to see if you would be more receptive and hopefully more graceful than in the last thread. Alas not.

people like me dont look to discredit them by pointing that out despite its obvious relevance

That's entirely up to you. Just because you don't do that, doesn't mean that people are not allowed to do it to you. If I chose to say that I don't agree with something, I will try and back it up with some facts, something that can be re-created, or links to tests or whatever. Not just say boo.

But I hear as do thousands of others the huge improvments made by the above products which are similar to completely credible products that in the market for sale and yet thats not good enough and people like you feel the need to try and discredit that opinion to the point of highlighting bits word to word.

but surely if somebody disagrees they are allowed their opinion, and to debate that are they not?

That is uneccessary vindictive behaviour as I said in the last thread that was locked.

It's not vindictive. I'm not out for revenge. I'm just sick of hearing a load of BS is all and I'm quite happy to call it out with the proof to back it up.

I'm sure this thread will go the same way, so people are free to make of it what they will.

[/quote]

 

[ellisdj]

The fact is you havent experienced it so you cant say for sure either. You can come for a listen if you want - my door is open to you.

But again you have broken it all down to seem very clever and discredit me - you are very good at that BTW. You are very bitter

I dont need to technically defend what I think despite how you think that will win you an arguement you cant win with me - I will never back down because I know what I have experienced - the difference has not been small

My system sounds good for music because of the audio pc - its sounds terrible off my blu ray player which is bit perfect as well - that is a good enough test for me

 

[Andy Clough]

Cool it everyone or I'll lock the thread again.

 

[ellisdj]

Sorry Andy - enough said anyway

 

[cheeseboy]

The fact is you havent experienced it so you cant say for sure either. You can come for a listen if you want - my door is open to you.

Ellis, please listen to what I'm saying - I don't doubt your system sounds great, I've never said otherwise, in fact I would very much like a similar system, but unfortunately my finances dictate that I cannot afford such a thing at the moment.

But again you have broken it all down to seem very clever and discredit me - you are very good at that BTW. You are very bitter

Please refrain from insults, there's no need. I'm not trying to discredit you, I just disagree with what you are saying.

I dont need to technically defend what I think despite how you think that will win you an arguement you cant win with me - I will never back down because I know what I have experienced - the difference has not been small

ho hum.

 

[cheeseboy]

Cool it everyone or I'll lock the thread again.

please do, it's just going to go round in circles otherwise. I would be nice to debate properly, but I can see that's not going to happen so may as well *** it in the bud.

 

[tinkywinkydipsylalapo]

'No, I want the last word!'

You guys...

 

[chebby]

Cool it everyone or I'll lock the thread again.

Then we'll get the "What happened to the 'What happened to the Jcat thread?'?" thread.

 

[pauln]

1. According to Jplay the software loads the entire playlist to RAM (full memory playback).

2. Therefore no data going through the sata cable during playback.

3. So how can you hear a difference between sata cables?

If you want a minimalistic device soley designed for playing music - wav files and flac files - with no wires acting as antennae, no mains interference, dedicated power supply and no other services running, how about one of these...

Surely the answer to all your prayers and a third the price of just one audiophile sata cable.

 

[ellisdj]

I have just seen this this morning - its a first time post from someone new to Jplay and products etc.

I do not know them, or have any influence or relevance to them - this is what they have written.

Hello, a first post for a fairly new forum member and newcomer to JPlay, the JCAT USB Card and the Reference USB Cable.

I'll start by saying I had been using a computer dedicated to my music system for about a year connected to an old Benchmark DAC via S/PDIF. I had ripped all my CDs/ DVDs/SACDs to a NAS. I also download hi-rez digital files from HDtracks and Acoustic Sounds.

For serious listening, I would fire up my Ayre C-5xe and insert the old silver/gold discs and I would have to burn the digital downloaded tracks to DVD-Audio. It didn't take long before the convenience of accessing music off a server became the norm for most listening. It was time to update my DAC….

I purchased an Auralic Vega in December. Since this was my first USB connected DAC and based on comments here and at CA, I expected I would eventually need to update my computer's stock USB ports. While I was pleased with the Vega connected to the stock USB ports, it didn't take long to decide the JCAT USB Card and Reference USB Cable was a must. The stock ports were a bit harsh and the sound was a little constricted. Even with the stock ports, the SQ was in many ways better than the Ayre C5xe. Primarily the pace, detail and overall speed were better than the Ayre, but initially the sound was not as smooth or as extended in the frequency extremes. If I was going to get all I could out of the Vega, It was time to update my USB ports and give a different USB cable a try….

Auralic's partnership with Jplay got me interested in what was possible by software, so I installed JPlay just before ordering the JCAT gear. I was hoping for a modest improvement but got a big surprise! It was enough of an improvement that I began to wonder how much better it could get with the JCAT card and cable change…

I have had the JCAT USB Card for about 3-weeks and the JCAT Reference USB Cable for about 2-weeks. Long enough for both to get burned in. The JCAT USB card was a noticeable benefit in bass extension and smoothness even with a just a few hours of break-in. The Reference Cable together with the USB Card have taken the SQ of my system up several levels! They are great products and I am blown away by how much an improvement the pair have made to my system. The improvement in SQ is fantastic. Every aspect of the SQ has been substantially improved beyond my previous Ayre reference. The pace, soundstage and low level detail in particular are killer after break-in! I'll spare all the pros describing the SQ and just say I'm having a blast

 

[cheeseboy]

ellis, please for the love of god, give it a rest.

 

[ellisdj]

I only posted that because I found it interesting - its not the same thing that happened to me but its similar.

I only last week tested my blu ray player over hdmi in comparison with my audio pc

I was expecting the audio pc to be 10x better, but amazingly it wasnt.

In fact the blu ray player sounded fuller and a bit more laid back and easier to listen to. This was a massive shock - the last time I tested it was not like this. The audio pc was much cleaner with much better resolution but not clearly better as the price and my expectation was.

My whole system has pretty much changed since the last test - but even so this was not what I was expecting.

So I have looked at the reasons why this could be - changed a few things in the audio pc (wont go into them) and tested again. Now the opposite is true the audio pc is a lot better as I expected, but still the blu ray player is decent. I do need to test again as I have changed some other things as well now after a demo of a £100k hifi system rocked my little world. But I learnt a lot from that demo.

That was the most 3D holographic sound I have heard yet - and that was off just a standard Naim streamer but playing the CD. That was very interesting because the sound presentation is so different to what I am used to.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Nearly saved my £1200 to buy this amazing kit. Well only £1199 to go. Its great to see further independant evidence from another (anonymous) audiophile posted on another (anonymous) respected forum. At least we can keep this thread alive for a bit longer.

Zzzzzzz