What do very expensive headphones sound like - are they worth it?

[theflyingwasp]

I'm a complete newbie when it comes to headphones .a month ago I bought the B&W P7s they were £330 from amazon then I shelled out £110 for the fiio e12,amp and they sound awesome to someone like me but after a bit of digging I found headphones up to £2000! Ultrasone edition 10 $2800!!

what do they sound like? its hard to imagine headphones sounding 5x better than I already have .are these type of headphones ment for high end hifi systems .would it be stupid even if money was no object to use them for iPods and iPads etc

like most electrical equipment are you paying for build and component quality rather than getting 10x the sound quality.

 

[dalethorn]

I'm a complete newbie when it comes to headphones .a month ago I bought the B&W P7s they were £330 from amazon then I shelled out £110 for the fiio e12,amp and they sound awesome to someone like me but after a bit of digging I found headphones up to £2000! Ultrasone edition 10 $2800!! what do they sound like? its hard to imagine headphones sounding 5x better than I already have .are these type of headphones ment for high end hifi systems .would it be stupid even if money was no object to use them for iPods and iPads etc. like most electrical equipment are you paying for build and component quality rather than getting 10x the sound quality.

As you move up the scale there is less and less difference in quality, but there may be dramatic differences in headphone 'signature', i.e. frequency response or balance. Same goes the other way for signature unfortunately, so often it isn't easy or even feasible to compare two specific headphones.

But if you were to listen to a well-regarded $1500 USD headphone and then listen to a $300 USD headphone right after that (in the same listening session) you might hear an obvious loss of quality. But that would depend on a few things: First, all the gear and source must be the same except the headphone. You'd need to listen for several minutes to the high-price item first, then switch to the lower item right in the middle of the music. You'd need to make sure the average volume is adjusted for each headphone. You'd need to ignore very large signature differences (or use some EQ), but I really don't know how you'd do that.

What I've found as a rule is, it's much easier to hear the loss of quality stepping down than it is to hear the gain stepping up.

 

[quadpatch]

I completely agree with Dale's comment here. I would add that the more expensive you go the lower numbers they're made in and thus the more expensive they are to make. This catch 22 not only boosts the price, but means the manufacturer isn't making the wild profit you might expect. I think often headphones priced at or over £1000 are done as an exercise by the manufacturer, a bit like expensive super cars (Bugatti Veyron for example). So no, you certainly should expect them to be worth their astronimical price in pure performance, but they will have certain qualities.

Also regarding Dale's comment, it's worth remembering that a headphone's tuning will come down to one person's preference at the end of the day. This is why someone will listen to a super expensive pair of headphones and think they sound awful.

As expensive headphones go I think I'm right in saying that the the most expensive was the Sennheiser Orpheus (£10,000), but the STAX SR009 is also up there because it has an amp that it's supposed to be paired with and they cost about $5000 each. After that it drops down to the levels like High-end Ultrasone's, Audeze's LCD range, the Grado PS1000, Sennheiser HD800, Beyerdynamic T1, Fostex TH900 and the Hifiman HE-6 (+ EF6 amp) etc. All those are roughly in the £1000-2000 range.

 

[cheeseboy]

and sometimes, the difference between headphones is just a bit of foam http://mikebeauchamp.com/misc/sennheiser-hd-555-to-hd-595-mod/

naughty senheiser

 

[alimcd]

I was under the impression that the Orpheus was a Headphone/amp combination? Might be wrong...

I'm lucky enough to be within reaching distance of three different Stax headphones and two energizers. The Stax sound like being stood between a pair of Electrostatics. One of their better models (407+) paired with one of the Tube Energizers can give a decent Audio Research/Martin Logan system a run for it's money in my humble opinion.

Not the fairest test. You'd get really tired with Martin Logan's strapped to your head! Hopefully you can catch my drift.

 

[eggontoast]

All what has been said is very true. However, the assumption being made is that the P7's are a bench mark £300 pair of headphones and they are not. You can spend the same £300 and get an improvement in sound from alternate headphone manufacturers which believe in substance over style. The P7's are a middle of the road sounding pair of headphones, a safe option.

 

[Ryanr1987]

That's where price and quality come into play. The P7 for me is around the middle of midfi with headphones such as the UE6000/9000. The P7 doesn't really have high end sound to my ears they sound like they need a good polish to my ears. but we have to factor materials used to cover the price.

To answer the original question I think Dale has covered it. When you start getting into the higher midfi to Hifi you have pretty much got a good idea of what to expect in terms of refinement and good dynamics and all that stuff! It's just a matter of an ideal sound signature. going into flagship the difference is very minimal and nothing like the gap from entry to midfi. Some headphones are a bit bass heavy with great detail but the bass can dominate or hide them details. Some may be the same but with less bass which will show detail better.

The K701 to HD800 is an example of what you get from flagships. With the HD800 they have some similarities to the AKG but do everything that little bit better but nothing huge.

For me the most fun, musical headphones are mostly midfi.

 

[theflyingwasp]

Thanks for the info guys

really went into this blind ... Well deaf

I'm happy I went for the p7s tho it was between them and the sennheiser momentum ,I found the p7s more comfortable but I feel I've paid the extra cash on build quality and looks.(they do look fabulous on my JUST MOBILE headphone stand) .also the fiio e12 I feel was a good investment aswell.yet again maybe a little powerful for my needs.

i won't if ever buy headphones at over the grand mark now after reading your comments especially if they are just being used for i-products

 

[eggontoast]

I think between those two headphones you definitely picked the best ones. They are better built, sound much nicer, I was distinctly underwhelmed with the Sennheiser Momentums but bear in mind they are nearly 25% more expensive. The B&W P7's give an enjoyable, pleasing listen but I wouldn't class them as audiophile headphones.

 

[theflyingwasp]

Yet again if I had went all out and bought class leading audiophile headphones would they just be wasted or say "too good" for listening to bought and imported music through I-products?

also why do a lot of you guys have many sets of headphones.i understand having different sets for outside ,in ear and at home,but why many of the same kind for at home? Do certain sets bring out different things on tracks or do you guys have trouble settling on one headphone.

 

[dalethorn]

Yet again if I had went all out and bought class leading audiophile headphones would they just be wasted or say "too good" for listening to bought and imported music through I-products? also why do a lot of you guys have many sets of headphones.i understand having different sets for outside ,in ear and at home,but why many of the same kind for at home? Do certain sets bring out different things on tracks or do you guys have trouble settling on one headphone.

While low-cost amps don't bring out the best in a pricy headphone, the amp is still flat from top to bottom while the headphone has a lot of variances, a.k.a. "coloration". So the pricy headphone is not wasted at all on a low-cost amp, as long as the amp has sufficient dynamic overhead power, and as long as there are no gnarly impedance issues.

Why several headphones? Because hi-fi isn't perfect, because a perfect "standard" can't be set forth in spite of the solid theory, so hi-fi listening is a learning process (and a great adventure), and different headphones provide somewhat different windows into that experience.

 

[theflyingwasp]

Thank you for yet again for the excellent info . I really am intrigued and fascinated by the whole headphone thing now.
Before Christmas I never gave it a second thought walking about with the apple free in ear headphones.
I think I have a pretty good start to the world of headphones at the moment.i may upgrade in 12-18 months time but I will just enjoy these for the time being.
My next purchase will have to be superior in ear headphones. But yet again there is a big market to choose from .i don't want to go nuts in price with these as they will get the most wear and tear with daily use.
I was set to go for the beyerdynamics 101ie I think they are £94or the cheaper beyerdynamics at £65 but both we're getting bad reviews due to their build quality falling apart straight away or in a few months which is a problem since they will get the most wear and tea.

Any suggestions?

 

[dalethorn]

Thank you for yet again for the excellent info . I really am intrigued and fascinated by the whole headphone thing now. Before Christmas I never gave it a second thought walking about with the apple free in ear headphones. I think I have a pretty good start to the world of headphones at the moment.i may upgrade in 12-18 months time but I will just enjoy these for the time being. My next purchase will have to be superior in ear headphones. But yet again there is a big market to choose from .i don't want to go nuts in price with these as they will get the most wear and tear with daily use. I was set to go for the beyerdynamics 101ie I think they are £94or the cheaper beyerdynamics at £65 but both we're getting bad reviews due to their build quality falling apart straight away or in a few months which is a problem since they will get the most wear and tea. Any suggestions?

Oh yeah - try the RHA MA750 - it's excellent, and the XTZ Earphone-12 is good too, plus if you have an iphone or ipod touch recent editions, you can get the Dirac player for the XTZ, which smooths the sound in a way that equalizers can't touch. For a low-cost IEM of good quality, I like the RHA MA350.

 

[theflyingwasp]

Many many thanks for your time and information

just ordered the RHA MA 750i from amazon

will get back to you when I've gave them a good listen!

 

[bigboss]

I think between those two headphones you definitely picked the best ones. They are better built, sound much nicer, I was distinctly underwhelmed with the Sennheiser Momentums but bear in mind they are nearly 25% more expensive. The B&W P7's give an enjoyable, pleasing listen but I wouldn't class them as audiophile headphones.

Which ones are "audiophile" headphones in the price range then?

 

[bigboss]

This catch 22 not only boosts the price, but means the manufacturer isn't making the wild profit you might expect. I think often headphones priced at or over £1000 are done as an exercise by the manufacturer, a bit like expensive super cars (Bugatti Veyron for example).

My understanding is that high end products (like Bugatti Veyron you mention) are built in small numbers, but have a higher profit margin.

 

[Womaz]

An interesting post. I own AKGQ701 and the Musical Fidelity headphone amp listed below.

This was a considerable investment for me at the time. £500 for the amp and the headphones at about £280. There was a massive improvement over my Grados SR80s as I would have expected. The sound is execllent in my opinion., very clear and detailed. The bass is also good I would say as I dont like bass drowning out the rest of the detail.

At the time I also auditioned the 1k Sennheiser HD800s, and there was such little difference in my opinion, and I decided that the extra £720 outlay for the Sennheisers was just not worth it. I do a lot of headphone listening now and I have considered exploring some more expensive options again as opposed to spending more on my actual system.

At £280 I would class my AKGs as an audiophile headphone........whatever that is

 

[bigboss]

The problem is, that some people don't associate good design with "audiophile" quality (whatever that means!). Uglier the product is, more "audiophile" grade it is, according to them!

 

[quadpatch]

This catch 22 not only boosts the price, but means the manufacturer isn't making the wild profit you might expect. I think often headphones priced at or over £1000 are done as an exercise by the manufacturer, a bit like expensive super cars (Bugatti Veyron for example).

My understanding is that high end products (like Bugatti Veyron you mention) are built in small numbers, but have a higher profit margin.

Am I thinking of the wrong car? I thought it cost more to make than they sell it for and was mostly an engineering exercise.

 

[dalethorn]

An interesting post. I own AKGQ701 and the Musical Fidelity headphone amp listed below. This was a considerable investment for me at the time. £500 for the amp and the headphones at about £280. There was a massive improvement over my Grados SR80s as I would have expected. The sound is execllent in my opinion., very clear and detailed. The bass is also good I would say as I dont like bass drowning out the rest of the detail. At the time I also auditioned the 1k Sennheiser HD800s, and there was such little difference in my opinion, and I decided that the extra £720 outlay for the Sennheisers was just not worth it. I do a lot of headphone listening now and I have considered exploring some more expensive options again as opposed to spending more on my actual system. At £280 I would class my AKGs as an audiophile headphone........whatever that is

The 701 and the MF amp are definitely audiophile. The HD800 would give you a little extra harmonic detail you can hear, but really makes no difference in the end. To date I haven't owned a planar, but having heard the "Mad Dog" headphone someone loaned me, I ordered the MrSpeakers "Alpha Dog" planar headphone. Knowing now what that planar sounds like, and having owned the HD800 for 3 years (until 2013), if you're considering upgrading I'd look into those 2 planars. I've read many, many reviews of the HiFiMan and Audeze planars, but nothing that would convince me to order either of theirs.

 

[bigboss]

This catch 22 not only boosts the price, but means the manufacturer isn't making the wild profit you might expect. I think often headphones priced at or over £1000 are done as an exercise by the manufacturer, a bit like expensive super cars (Bugatti Veyron for example).

My understanding is that high end products (like Bugatti Veyron you mention) are built in small numbers, but have a higher profit margin.

Am I thinking of the wrong car? I thought it cost more to make than they sell it for and was mostly an engineering exercise.

I stand corrected. Bugatti Veyron is making a loss on each car, but Volkswagen uses it to boost its ego and prestige by achieving unique engineering feats. Ferrari, Porsche and Lamborghini on the other hand bring in good profits due to high profit margin.

 

[eggontoast]

Which ones are "audiophile" headphones in the price range then?

A couple that spring to mind would be Sennheisers HD-600/650, AKG K701/712. After listening to any of these then reverting back to the P7's highlights the short comings of the P7's. The P7's are just a typical boomy tizzy sound, lets call it a commercial sound, nothing wrong with it just coloured like having a smiley EQ on.

The problem is, that some people don't associate good design with "audiophile" quality (whatever that means!). Uglier the product is, more "audiophile" grade it is, according to them!

'some people' who's that then, I generally just listen to Hi-Fi products to gauge how good they are !

 

[theflyingwasp]

Should I perhaps buy a second pair of headphones? Is there benifets to listening to the same album with different headphones ,would someone like me new to the headphone game notice a big difference.

i quite fancy the AKG701 but would I have to buy another amp aswell?

They are not as pretty as the p7s tho

 

[eggontoast]

I wouldn't say there is any benefit from listening to the same album but, IMO, certain headphones work better than others with different genres of music. Some are better with dance others with classical (definitely STAX) etc etc

Your amplification will be fine for the time being and as to what they look like, you can't see them when you're wearing them ;-)