TrevC
Well-known member
ellisdj said:All speaker sound terrible with the metal links into them - every pair I have ever heard - nothing to do with reading anything.
I wouldnt take that advice - hence why there are products sold for this solution !!
Also in terms of wiring
I Think it does matter - clearly things are not sounding right so all options must be looked at. The internal crossover of the speakers might not like that wiring up
Wire into either the LF + and -
Or the HF + and -
Not a mixture of the 2 and try that
:wall:
ray:Fair cop - he has followed the instruction diagram - seems odd to me.
Sense used here - speaker wire used - these bettered several other pairs of speakers on the day for me and at the time I couldnt work out why the others sounded pants
The PMC 22 i demo'd are supposed to be awesome - they had a nice mid and bass (plugged into the LF) - but absoluetly aweful treble - sounded like it was under water.
Only after did it occur to me that I should have swopped out the bits of wire for speaker wire.
Sense used here - speaker wire used - these bettered several other pairs of speakers on the day for me and at the time I couldnt work out why the others sounded pants
The PMC 22 i demo'd are supposed to be awesome - they had a nice mid and bass (plugged into the LF) - but absoluetly aweful treble - sounded like it was under water.
Only after did it occur to me that I should have swopped out the bits of wire for speaker wire.
Crocodile said:
Thank you all. I'm learning a few things here. @Crocodile - I'll check the cable. Thanks.
Overall, my set is improving. The room size is something to work on. I also notice that those speakers are not suitable for low volume. Maybe because they can handle up to 200W and my amp is only 125W. So, if I want to listem the spearks working I need to volume up! Anyway, I'm not depressed anymore. The set started to growing on me.
ellisdj said:
I have a pair of speakers with the crappiest metal links I have ever seen. They are, more less, 50 year old, pitted, paper-clip equivalents. These speakers are the finest sounding speakers I have ever owned and the joint best speakers I have ever heard.
So now we all agree he appears to have wired his speakers correctly. Happy to repeat my offer that if he's anywhere close to me (unlikely) I'll go round and take a look when commitments allow. Anyone else? He must be near one of us.
TrevC
Well-known member
ellisdj said:Fair cop - he has followed the instruction diagram - seems odd to me.
Sense used here - speaker wire used - these bettered several other pairs of speakers on the day for me and at the time I couldnt work out why the others sounded pants
The PMC 22 i demo'd are supposed to be awesome - they had a nice mid and bass (plugged into the LF) - but absoluetly aweful treble - sounded like it was under water.
Only after did it occur to me that I should have swopped out the bits of wire for speaker wire.
Or said a little spell while holding a black cat.
Covenanter said:"Interesting" is a very polite way of putting it.
Chris
The pre-edit version wasn't quite so polite.
Have you tried changing the crappy links for the same speaker wire you use?
I have had the same effect with every speaker I have heard - from all different manufacturers. Not one has sounded good with those metal links in.
They have all sounded garbage to certain degrees in comparison to what they should sound like.
I cant believe everyone doesnt do this as standard. Reference systems I have heard have never had the metal wires in the speakers - for good reason.
Although after hearing demo's at shows that mostly sound garbage as well I am not surprised people think that is good sound....
I have had the same effect with every speaker I have heard - from all different manufacturers. Not one has sounded good with those metal links in.
They have all sounded garbage to certain degrees in comparison to what they should sound like.
I cant believe everyone doesnt do this as standard. Reference systems I have heard have never had the metal wires in the speakers - for good reason.
Although after hearing demo's at shows that mostly sound garbage as well I am not surprised people think that is good sound....
ellisdj said:
I'd loved to have a been a fly on the wall at that final 22 pre-launch meeting.
"Right lads, we've made the best pair of speakers we possibly can for £1,800 but they sound rubbish on account of the links. Shall we swap them out for a few pence worth of speaker cable to totally transform the sound?"
"Nah, **** it..."
ellisdj said:
Can we at least agree that the 'big difference' you think is achieved by swapping-out the links just isn't going to make a difference that the OP is likely to classify as 'big', seeing that he's fundamentally dissatisfied with the sound. Perhaps if we can agree to that, we can get back on topic and help the OP.
It is worth payng attention to good practice, with regard to set-up:
- Make sure tweeters are at ear level when seated.
- Try removing the speaker grills
- Try different amounts of toe-in.
- if speakers are on a suspended wooden floor they need isolated from it, with something like Granite Worktop Savers (£9ish)
- If possible, have your seating position forming an equilateral triangle with the speakers, and not close to the wall behind you.
- Try putting the speakers in different positions (with regard to the distance to the wall / corners).
- Make sure tweeters are at ear level when seated.
- Try removing the speaker grills
- Try different amounts of toe-in.
- if speakers are on a suspended wooden floor they need isolated from it, with something like Granite Worktop Savers (£9ish)
- If possible, have your seating position forming an equilateral triangle with the speakers, and not close to the wall behind you.
- Try putting the speakers in different positions (with regard to the distance to the wall / corners).
I would suggest he tries it - there are sellers on ebay that sell the links made from QED speaker cable.
Other companies - Chord, Graham Slee, Telerium Q, Russ Andrews just to name a couple sell pre made links. Obviously that is for no reason at all and they must not sell any of them and have all returned having made no difference....
Other companies - Chord, Graham Slee, Telerium Q, Russ Andrews just to name a couple sell pre made links. Obviously that is for no reason at all and they must not sell any of them and have all returned having made no difference....
MajorFubar said:
IMO. This is worth experimenting with once the system has been set up correctly, bedded in, and sounding as it should.
And another tip to add to CNO's list is:
Play a well recorded piece of vinyl to fully evaluate the system. EG Dire Straits Communique and not Curve's Doppelganger.
And make sure you keep the stylus tip clean.
And make sure the non-suspended turntable is as well isolated from the speakers as possible. Placing the tt on top of the speakers is the worst place, followed by the floor next to the speakers, followed by a floor mounted stand or cabinet next to the speakers. A rigid wallshelf or floor mounted stand in a different room to the speakers is about the best sounding place for it. Practicalities may result in some compromises on the exact tt location and support.
Play a well recorded piece of vinyl to fully evaluate the system. EG Dire Straits Communique and not Curve's Doppelganger.
And make sure you keep the stylus tip clean.
And make sure the non-suspended turntable is as well isolated from the speakers as possible. Placing the tt on top of the speakers is the worst place, followed by the floor next to the speakers, followed by a floor mounted stand or cabinet next to the speakers. A rigid wallshelf or floor mounted stand in a different room to the speakers is about the best sounding place for it. Practicalities may result in some compromises on the exact tt location and support.
CNo you know the truth on this - your just being politically correct.
BTW I had suggested pretty much all you said right at the start of the thread - setup is crucial and it needs more time than one evening.
BTW I had suggested pretty much all you said right at the start of the thread - setup is crucial and it needs more time than one evening.
zilli said:Thank you all. I'm learning a few things here. @Crocodile - I'll check the cable. Thanks.
Overall, my set is improving. The room size is something to work on. I also notice that those speakers are not suitable for low volume. Maybe because they can handle up to 200W and my amp is only 125W. So, if I want to listem the spearks working I need to volume up! Anyway, I'm not depressed anymore. The set started to growing on me.
That's really good news that you're learning a few things.
Your speakers will produce 90dbs at a distance of 1 metre with 1 watt put through them. That's loud.
With 125 watts they will produce 111dbs (rounded up to the nearest db). That's deafeningly loud. Far louder than I ever listen at - even when I want a party blast.
200 watts would give you 113 dbs.
The quantity of watts is not a problem in your system. The quality of watts hitting your speakers is what counts, plus what the speakers and room are then doing with those watts.
Please remeber that you have spent a lot of money on this system and that you deserve a very high level of reproduction as a result. Don't accept a sound that is initially disappointing and that you then grow used to as chances are, this will result in you listening to music at home less and less. The system that you deserve will sound really good initially and will continue to provide a bit of magic every time you play something new on it. It will be a system that will reward you with years of listening entertainment.
Al ears
Well-known member
zilli said:Hi guys,
I'm new here. I really hope someone can give me some light here. I'm very depressed now.
After decades, I finally bought my first Hi-Fi system. I was very proud of that. My set up is:
- Roksan Kandy 2
- Mission MX-5
- Rega RP-6
- QED Silver Anniversary XT
I know there are a lot better choices out, but those were what I could afford.
So, I finally had all the pieces yesterday and I spent the night mounting them. I was quite excited to hear the MX-5. All the reviews I read stated that they can kick very well. And after hours of work, I finally turned on my Rega and brought the volume up. However, what I heard wasn't what I was expecting. The speakers didn't perform at all. The speakers sound likes if there are pillows in front of them. Stuffy??? Sorry, I cannot find the adjective here. You cannot have an idea how disappointed I'm.
I'm trying to find reasons for my setup low performance:
- It's all new. They need time to break-in
- My room is rather small.
- I screwed up with the cabling.
- Roksan and Mission don't pair well.
The Mission manual is quite weak and confuses in explaining how to connect the speaker cable. I 'hope' I did something wrong. I'll post some pic later. Once I get home.
Any comments about my set and/or previous similar experience are welcome.
Thanks
I haven't read any of the rest of this thread so I might be repeating what others have said. However, I'm sorry it's not worked out so far but all is not lost.
Talk to your dealer first, then ask if it's alright to give it a few days to run the system in. The speakers will need time to loosen up as the drivers will be new and will need this.
You don't say how small your room is, so it's possible that the speakers might be a little too big and need more space. You'll know better once you have a couple of days running the speakers in out the way. If so, then see if your dealer will swap the speakers over for something more diminiutive room friendly. I use Tannoy DC4s and they work well with gear costing three times as much and are brilliant in smaller rooms (as good as say the Q Concept 20s for instance). Other options are out there of course.
Your amp will be fine. Likewise the speaker cable you have. The turntable too will be fine. Also try adjusting the toe-in of the speakers - positioning is by far and away the biggest and cheapest upgrade you can make, so do this before swapping anything around.
Hope it works out.
TrevC
Well-known member
mikeparker59 said:
If that was so it would lack bass and have no stereo image, not sound muffled.
zilli said:Hi guys,
I'm new here. I really hope someone can give me some light here. I'm very depressed now.
After decades, I finally bought my first Hi-Fi system. I was very proud of that. My set up is:
- Roksan Kandy 2
- Mission MX-5
- Rega RP-6
- QED Silver Anniversary XT
I know there are a lot better choices out, but those were what I could afford.
So, I finally had all the pieces yesterday and I spent the night mounting them. I was quite excited to hear the MX-5. All the reviews I read stated that they can kick very well. And after hours of work, I finally turned on my Rega and brought the volume up. However, what I heard wasn't what I was expecting. The speakers didn't perform at all. The speakers sound likes if there are pillows in front of them. Stuffy??? Sorry, I cannot find the adjective here. You cannot have an idea how disappointed I'm.
I'm trying to find reasons for my setup low performance:
- It's all new. They need time to break-in
- My room is rather small.
- I screwed up with the cabling.
- Roksan and Mission don't pair well.
The Mission manual is quite weak and confuses in explaining how to connect the speaker cable. I 'hope' I did something wrong. I'll post some pic later. Once I get home.
Any comments about my set and/or previous similar experience are welcome.
Thanks
I had in the past the combination of the Roksan Kandy and Mission MX5 . The Roksan amp and the Rega turntable are excellent choices both are
great value fo money . I think you have 2 major problems :
1. The QED Silver Anniversary XT : the silver cables have to be match very carefully
they can be sound detailed and transparency but on most systems they can be harsh , laid-back or too bright .
2. Mission MK5 : I bought this speakers without hearing them in advance based on the WHF 5 stars review - it was a big mistake (!) no details at all , the sound was blair and unfocused the bass was boomy and harsh , the soundstage was unstable and poor . Also they need a plenty of space for small / medium rooms they aren't suitable at all .
Hope it help .
steve_1979
Well-known member
I hate to state the obvious. But maybe he just doesn't like the sound of the speakers he's bought.
Could you take them back to the shop to swap them and audition a few other speakers to see which ones take your fancy?
Could you take them back to the shop to swap them and audition a few other speakers to see which ones take your fancy?
bigfish786
Moderator
just wanted to add, regarding the Mission speakers. I bought the Mission M35i, which are very similar to the speakers you have now, they honestly took a lot of hours to run in. i think they continually improved over many years, be patient, they may well improve over the coming days.
i think its really difficult to say just exactly what the problem is, especially without hearing it. idon't know how good the phono stage is in the roksan amp. and because you have bought it all at the same time you don't really have a base to start from, meaning you haven't set it up, had it sound great, then add something and it sound a bit off.
maybe it would be a good idea to invite some people round who know a bit about hifi, and see what they can do once they've heard it.
in the meantime, can you take some pics of your room and your set-up to give us an idea of how things look right now?
i think its really difficult to say just exactly what the problem is, especially without hearing it. idon't know how good the phono stage is in the roksan amp. and because you have bought it all at the same time you don't really have a base to start from, meaning you haven't set it up, had it sound great, then add something and it sound a bit off.
maybe it would be a good idea to invite some people round who know a bit about hifi, and see what they can do once they've heard it.
in the meantime, can you take some pics of your room and your set-up to give us an idea of how things look right now?
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