Vladimir - need to discuss speakers

[Andrewjvt]

Wilmslow audio k100 (ATC scm100 passive clones)

available to me 2nd hand for only £1000 - should i go for them or wait and stay active?

Whats your thoughts

100 litres

scanspeak tweeter

atc 3inch mid range

atc 12 inch bass driver

these are the speakers i listened to over a year ago that caused all the **** back then.

cheers

 

[Vladimir]

Wilmslow audio k100 (ATC scm100 passive clones)

available to me 2nd hand for only £1000 - should i go for them or wait and stay active?

Whats your thoughts

100 litres

scanspeak tweeter

atc 3inch mid range

atc 12 inch bass driver

these are the speakers i listened to over a year ago that caused all the **** back then.

 

 

cheers

I wouldn't walk. I'd run!

 

[Vladimir]

You can convert them to actives with 3 stacked Crown amps (have DSP crossover). Buy them one at a time, easier on the pocket. That setup would slay the original integrated actives. They showed in tests that amps were insuffiecent to run to full potential. German mag said passives measured and sounded better due to this. And you can see on the pics its some cheapo plate amp. Nothing even close on par with 3 Crowns.

 

[plastic penguin]

Not sure how Vlad would know, unless Wimslow have opened a branch in the Balkans.

I wouid steer clear of kit speakers if comparing directly with known and respected brands.

 

[Vladimir]

Just get one big angry touring amp and be done with it.
I'd personally stick to passives + a big boy amp.

 

[Vladimir]

Not sure how Vlad would know, unless Wimslow have opened a branch in the Balkans. 

I wouid steer clear of kit speakers if comparing directly with known and respected brands.

Even if I had access to WA K100s my input would be meaningless. My ears, my kit, my room, my music, my taste. Andrew will audition and decide if that is a good buy for him.
He can't lose money on them at s/h and so affordable. He wanted to try them, his own idea, so why not?
Building from kit is what real audiophiles did back in the golden age of audio. I wouldn't feel a booboo on my ego if I had kit speakers at all. And Wilmslow Audio is reputable IMO.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Not sure how Vlad would know, unless Wimslow have opened a branch in the Balkans. 

I wouid steer clear of kit speakers if comparing directly with known and respected brands.

Even if I had access to WA K100s my input would be meaningless. My ears, my kit, my room, my music, my taste. Andrew will audition and decide if that is a good buy for him.
He can't lose money on them at s/h and so affordable. He wanted to try them, his own idea, so why not?
Building from kit is what real audiophiles did back in the golden age of audio. I wouldn't feel a booboo on my ego if I had kit speakers at all. And Wilmslow Audio is reputable IMO.

Thanks Vlad for replying

Ive heard these speakers running - one of the most exciting sounds ive ever heard. I dont need someone else to listen to them.

The fact that Vlad has not heard them is not the issue.

I wanted to discuss the possibility of these speakers with vlad as i respect his knowlege.

Btw please send links for the crown amps.
My worry about making a 3 way diy active is getting all the levels perfect for each driver.

Ive met someone that makes his own subs and he warned me of this also.

Well i get back to uk next sat and if i survive the shopping as mrs wants ne to buy a diamond ring, ill get these.
They may need new cabinets but these are cheap.

Another option for amp is the benchmark ahb2
Check the stereophile review (measurements) the distortion was so low that his equipment could not work. Had to be sent other equipment to measure.
Ive also spoken to benchmark and they challenge me to compare the ahb2 to actives and see

 

[Andrewjvt]

Not sure how Vlad would know, unless Wimslow have opened a branch in the Balkans. 

I wouid steer clear of kit speakers if comparing directly with known and respected brands.

Good quality kit speakers can give you a sound 3 - 4 times the price.

 

[tonky]

Not sure how Vlad would know, unless Wimslow have opened a branch in the Balkans.

I wouid steer clear of kit speakers if comparing directly with known and respected brands.

Even if I had access to WA K100s my input would be meaningless. My ears, my kit, my room, my music, my taste. Andrew will audition and decide if that is a good buy for him. He can't lose money on them at s/h and so affordable. He wanted to try them, his own idea, so why not? Building from kit is what real audiophiles did back in the golden age of audio. I wouldn't feel a booboo on my ego if I had kit speakers at all. And Wilmslow Audio is reputable IMO.

+1

If Wimslow Audio (or any otherspeaker kit manufacturer) did a Jim Rogers 149 or BBC designed LS5/9 I would be there like a shot!

(In kit form of course)

tonky

 

[lpv]

Another option for amp is the benchmark ahb2 Check the stereophile review (measurements) the distortion was so low that his equipment could not work. Had to be sent other equipment to measure.

" Benchmark amplifier's specifications are close to those of my Audio Precision system, both regarding the purity of its signal generator and the dynamic range of its analyzer. Correctly characterizing the AHB2's measured performance would therefore present a challenge. And, to my embarrassment, one of the speaker cables with which I routinely measure amplifiers and[/i] my test load set to 4 ohms were also introducing small amounts of nonlinearity. These problems—and here I'm talking about the difference between 0.0003% THD+noise and 0.0005%—haven't affected the measured performance of other amplifiers I've tested, but they were[/i] detectable with the AHB2's very low intrinsic distortion and noise. For this review, THX's Andrew Mason supplied me with a custom test load made with resistors using nonferrous leads and terminals, and a speaker cable terminated with a Speakon connector, both of which had guaranteed negligible nonlinearity."

they also say the amp is especially good when used in bridged-mono mode

 

[plastic penguin]

If Andrew has heard these and likes them why ask the question? Or am I missing a fundamental point?

 

[Andrewjvt]

Another option for amp is the benchmark ahb2 Check the stereophile review (measurements) the distortion was so low that his equipment could not work. Had to be sent other equipment to measure. 

" Benchmark amplifier's specifications are close to those of my Audio Precision system, both regarding the purity of its signal generator and the dynamic range of its analyzer. Correctly characterizing the AHB2's measured performance would therefore present a challenge. And, to my embarrassment, one of the speaker cables with which I routinely measure amplifiers and my test load set to 4 ohms were also introducing small amounts of nonlinearity. These problems—and here I'm talking about the difference between 0.0003% THD+noise and 0.0005%—haven't affected the measured performance of other amplifiers I've tested, but they were detectable with the AHB2's very low intrinsic distortion and noise. For this review, THX's Andrew Mason supplied me with a custom test load made with resistors using nonferrous leads and terminals, and a speaker cable terminated with a Speakon connector, both of which had guaranteed negligible nonlinearity."

they also say the amp is especially good when used in bridged-mono mode

 

 

 

Ive read that
Cheers

 

[Andrewjvt]

If Andrew has heard these and likes them why ask the question? Or am I missing a fundamental point?

The clue is in the original heading

I just wanted to discuss this with vlad thats all
Not many on here appreciate 2nd hand let alone diy.
Hows your new leema btw?

 

[lpv]

sorry for being pain in the ass.. I know you've read that and I only read that because you've said: check the review.. as I'm always lookin for audiable lower distortion

they merely changed: resistors, leads and terminals.. hardly 'an equipment'..

this amp can go up to 200kHz if you're planning some dolphins in the future 🙂

sorry Andrew mate, couldnt resist

love you

btw. how's your holidays?

 

[Andrewjvt]

sorry for being pain in the ass.. I know you've read that and I only read that because you've said: check the review.. as I'm always lookin for audiable lower distortion 

they merely changed: resistors, leads and terminals.. hardly 'an equipment'.. 

this amp can go up to 200kHz if you're planning some dolphins in the future 🙂

sorry Andrew mate, couldnt resist

love you

btw. how's your holidays?

Going good
Thanks

Regards the amp the noise floor is the lowest recorded. So low that stereophile normal equipment could not work correct.
Ive not heard them yet so i dont know.

 

[insider9]

My worry about making a 3 way diy active is getting all the levels perfect for each driver.

I'm doing something similar but to a lower priced speakers to start with. It's not as difficult as you think. All you need is a UMIK-1 and a PC running REW to setup. I will be using Minidsp OpenDRC-DA8 and most likely a number of Behringer A-500. But both active crossover and amplification could be done cheaper. Haven't decided if I'd rather do a 3-way plus sub or a 4-way design.

Considering that digital active crossover with room correction and amplification works out under a £1,000 for a diy 4-way active pair I'd say it's crazy good value. Add your WA for another £1,000 and you have no other system I can think off that could do the same at £2,000. Yes it would have limitations in terms of conectivity but that's easily solved by something like a Yamaha WXC-50 or a different Minidsp solution that are a few.

 

[lpv]

Regards the amp the noise floor is the lowest recorded. So low that stereophile normal equipment could not work correct. Ive not heard them yet so i dont know.

I wonder what will happen if that magnificient low distortion meets first order filters in a 3 way configuration...

 

[Andrewjvt]

Regards the amp the noise floor is the lowest recorded. So low that stereophile normal equipment could not work correct. Ive not heard them yet so i dont know.

I wonder what will happen if that magnificient low distortion meets first order filters in a 3 way configuration...

In theroy should eliminate cross over distortion.

 

[Vladimir]

I mentioned the Crown amps not because I like to push the brand, QSC or other is as good or better. The main advantage is in the integrated active crossover. You can set each amplifier at certain frequency range and slope. Get a bigger amp for the bass drivers, smaller ones for mids and highs. You'll notice same thing is done with all manufacturer actives, more power available to the bass. Logical.

You can go the classical path, which most people would find more comfortable with, getting an active crossover + power amps. In that case you can get any power amp to do the job, no need for integrated DSP.

How to attenuate each driver set correctly is easy. You can use a simple mic and record at your listening position. You really have no use for an anechoic chamber, you want to take the room in the equation. Adjust drivers to get inroom flat frequency response. Simple as that. You don't even need to buy this measuring equipment, lpv can help you with this I'm sure.

At this point, if you decide to get these K100s, best would be to get the biggest amp that would later do bass duties and enjoy the speakers as passives for a while, learn their character, interaction with the room, get comfortable, savor the journey. Take some mic measurements. After months or a year if you feel it's a worthwhile investment to go active then you can get two more amps and go full monty, no crossovers. Those WA K100 crossovers reek of quality, so I wouldn't just rush towards active conversion.

 

[Andrewjvt]

I mentioned the Crown amps not because I like to push the brand, QSC or other is as good or better. The main advantage is in the integrated active crossover. You can set each amplifier at certain frequency range and slope. Get a bigger amp for the bass drivers, smaller ones for mids and highs. You'll notice same thing is done with all manufacturer actives, more power available to the bass. Logical.

You can go the classical path, which most people would find more comfortable with, getting an active crossover + power amps. In that case you can get any power amp to do the job, no need for integrated DSP.

How to attenuate each driver set correctly is easy. You can use a simple mic and record at your listening position. You really have no use for an anechoic chamber, you want to take the room in the equation. Adjust drivers to get inroom flat frequency response. Simple as that. You don't even need to buy this measuring equipment, lpv can help you with this I'm sure. 

At this point, if you decide to get these K100s, best would be to get the biggest amp that would later do bass duties and enjoy the speakers as passives for a while, learn their character, interaction with the room, get comfortable, savor the journey. Take some mic measurements. After months or a year if you feel it's a worthwhile investment to go active then you can get two more amps and go full monty, no crossovers. Those WA K100 crossovers reek of quality, so I wouldn't just rush towards active conversion. 

 

Ja i agree with what youve said
Thanks

 

[lpv]

 

[Vladimir]

If lpv isn't being too keen on coming in and helping with active setup, just tell him how the JBLs are giant killers and their sueprbly neutral flat midrange reminds you of hot honey dripping on a lingerie model's naked body. He'll jet right over in 5 min to measure the JBLs. *lol*

 

[lpv]

do u mean flat earth sort of midrange? *dirol*

 

[Vladimir]

do u mean flat earth sort of midrange? *dirol*

The best kind.

 

[drummerman]

What you gain in spending less for Kit speakers you then probably loose when selling on.

Not that many folks buy ready made Kits.

It may or may not be difficult to shift them on in time.