Andrewjvt said:
It's all sound reasoning to me. If the K100s are 85% as good as the originals, you are 'getting away with murder' at those prices. And that Hegel powerhouse will finally get some real work to do.
It's all sound reasoning to me. If the K100s are 85% as good as the originals, you are 'getting away with murder' at those prices. And that Hegel powerhouse will finally get some real work to do.
MUSICRAFT said:
Was that 'well and truly' crossing the line? How could it be, since I paid in full.
It must be something else
Andrewjvt said:
I think Rick was making a joke about you changing your mind to get the better deal (the H360).
Vladimir said:
Thats what i also thought until last night i recieved a text message from him and i copy and paste:
Dear Andrew. I'll keep this brief. There are some things which I'll put up with. However there is a limit and it is one which you well and truly crossed recently. I will continue to assist you with your H360 (please contact us via email only info@musicraft.co.uk) or you if you prefer you can contact Hegel (I have spoken to them). Either way it is with regret that I have to inform you that you are not welcome in the store without my consent. Regards. Rick.
I asked twice for an explanation but no answer back so i said if i dont get a reply by tonight ill ask others what they think.
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
Firstly I do not feel this is the appropriate place for this however I feel there needs to be some response.
The individual concerned was caught out and stopped in his tracks on the evening of March 24th 2016. I made a decision later on that evening on the action to take. Others which I felt needed to know were informed (the first of which was before the start of this thread on April 6th 2016). The individual concerned was informed of my decision shortly after 7pm on April 13th 2016.
Given his reaction at having been caught the individual concerned is fully aware of the reason and is using this thread as an excuse to vent the ongoing hurt he is feeling for the wrong he has done.
I find it interesting that the individual concerned has chosen not to include the content of his text message that he sent me (April 13th) shortly afterwards in response to my decision of April 13th.
The individual concerned was caught out and stopped in his tracks on the evening of March 24th 2016. I made a decision later on that evening on the action to take. Others which I felt needed to know were informed (the first of which was before the start of this thread on April 6th 2016). The individual concerned was informed of my decision shortly after 7pm on April 13th 2016.
Given his reaction at having been caught the individual concerned is fully aware of the reason and is using this thread as an excuse to vent the ongoing hurt he is feeling for the wrong he has done.
I find it interesting that the individual concerned has chosen not to include the content of his text message that he sent me (April 13th) shortly afterwards in response to my decision of April 13th.
Please share it as im in as much in the dark as everyone else.
And i asked for an explanation 2 days ago and clearly stated if you dont respond by last night i will ask opinions of others.
The last communication we had was way before my wilmslow audio k100 (this thread) where you quoted me prices for atc scm40s and jl subs. When i said im not convinced about subs with floor standers you said then that you wished you never wasted your time getting ne the prices.
It was then that i decided to go ahead and build kit speakers.
I made this decsion based on your reaction to my decsion and all the things you then said to me(more about this later)
and made this thread with the first post stating how i felt.
I HAVE NOT CONTACTED YOU SINCE THEN OR SENT ANY TEXT AFTER THAT DATE SO IF YOU NOW HAVE LIED ABOUT THIS AND IM WRONG PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG.
and yes this could have been avoided if youd only answered me when i asked where did i cross the line? 2 days ago straight after recieving text from you.
So come on please tell me.
And if you dont realize - i am a customer that has a right to get the best deal for myself. You clearly did not like the fact that i wanted you to demo me your scm100s in your shop against the scm40s with jl subs incase i thought the 100s were better then looked for a 2nd hand set on ebay.
My point is if the jlsub scm40 was much better then you could at least prove it. Dont you as a hifi shop think?
Ita not that im banned from your shop(lol) thats got me upset
Its the fact that you bring hegel into this.
And i asked for an explanation 2 days ago and clearly stated if you dont respond by last night i will ask opinions of others.
The last communication we had was way before my wilmslow audio k100 (this thread) where you quoted me prices for atc scm40s and jl subs. When i said im not convinced about subs with floor standers you said then that you wished you never wasted your time getting ne the prices.
It was then that i decided to go ahead and build kit speakers.
I made this decsion based on your reaction to my decsion and all the things you then said to me(more about this later)
and made this thread with the first post stating how i felt.
I HAVE NOT CONTACTED YOU SINCE THEN OR SENT ANY TEXT AFTER THAT DATE SO IF YOU NOW HAVE LIED ABOUT THIS AND IM WRONG PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG.
and yes this could have been avoided if youd only answered me when i asked where did i cross the line? 2 days ago straight after recieving text from you.
So come on please tell me.
And if you dont realize - i am a customer that has a right to get the best deal for myself. You clearly did not like the fact that i wanted you to demo me your scm100s in your shop against the scm40s with jl subs incase i thought the 100s were better then looked for a 2nd hand set on ebay.
My point is if the jlsub scm40 was much better then you could at least prove it. Dont you as a hifi shop think?
Ita not that im banned from your shop(lol) thats got me upset
Its the fact that you bring hegel into this.
This is Andrew's thread on a public forum, where you obviously made a small provocation at him. As a result he is now airing the dirty laundry in public. Soon others will take participation, which all in the end hurts your personal credibility and brand.
If you want it to stop, simply stop posting BS disclaimers and get on with life regardless what injustice you may think you've suffered.
Let's get back on topic, the gorgeous and powerful K100s. All this estrogen is killing the buzz.
If you want it to stop, simply stop posting BS disclaimers and get on with life regardless what injustice you may think you've suffered.
Let's get back on topic, the gorgeous and powerful K100s. All this estrogen is killing the buzz.
I just read the whole thread and I still can't work it out. Either spell it all out clearly or keep it all private.
Is this an issue of showrooming (which I know has been a contentious issue on the forum in the past)?
an objection to a customer taking advantage of a bricks and mortar retailer to audition but then turn around and seek the same product online or second hand or something rather than buying it from the dealer who has provided the service and time of an audition of the actual product?
Is this an issue of showrooming (which I know has been a contentious issue on the forum in the past)?
an objection to a customer taking advantage of a bricks and mortar retailer to audition but then turn around and seek the same product online or second hand or something rather than buying it from the dealer who has provided the service and time of an audition of the actual product?
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
I'll be adding one more post on this matter which I feel will dispel something that has been said here. I'll do this when I've got a moment to spare later on today.
ID. said:
Before all this I only auditioned Atc scm40s at musicraft and really loved the sound but a few months later before comitting financially to buying them thought about larger drivers (like the scm 100) and asked if he had any available (old stock or customer trade ins or 2nd hand) as brand new would be out of my affordability.
It was then that i was told no and also that adding jl subs would be far better anyway.
I never liked the sound of this so made lots of threads to get independant views of all the people on here.
Then i asked for a demo of his scm100s to see for myself - i was refused this option - the reason being i wont demo my stock only for you to buy on ebay (totally respect that)
But also i was urged to go ahead with jl sub atc40 combo instead - being told it woukd be much better.
So then i asked for a demo of that at least (scm40 jlsub)- the reply i got was 'i cant do any demos for at least 2 weeks as im very busy with installations.
But then i was only given 2 days to make up my mind on the special offer price of jlsubs with atc40 before even being given option of a demo.
So id have to have brought the atc jl sub combo blind on an ultimatum - buy it now or lose the deal.
Anyone on here would be mad to spend so much money on this basis.
Thats not even including all the other excuses/reactions to losing business - in my opinion was very unproffessional (the worst being - the hegel 360 wont tonally match the scm100s(lol) what happened to will grip almost any loud speaker to im chasing the dragon.
Vladimir said:
I even explained ive already spent a lot of money already and even if i dont buy the floor standers will still buy the rears and center channel atc from him.
I also had to tell him dont worry about all my posts about large drivers etc im just checking for myself.
Should not a customer have these rights?
Are we or am i in debt just because of an audition?
Dealers need to take the sales and loses on the chin and not throw toys out of the cot in my opinion.
You win some you lose some.
End this by either phoning me and telling me man to man or ill even execpt a simple text message.
Cheers. Sounds like a bit of he said she said 
I kind of understand both perspectives. I have my own Views on the actions of the parties involved, but that's largely irrelevant.
I think it probably should all have been kept private, but as Vlad said, it's the dealer who has the most to lose by carrying on a public argument, even if he does want to justify or explain.
I kind of understand both perspectives. I have my own Views on the actions of the parties involved, but that's largely irrelevant.
I think it probably should all have been kept private, but as Vlad said, it's the dealer who has the most to lose by carrying on a public argument, even if he does want to justify or explain.
jonathanRD
Well-known member
Whilst it is interesting to watch and comment on someone's purchase journey, this thread is a timely reminder for me in regards to my own journey. I want a new amplifier but I have just been too busy to start at the moment. But it has crossed my mind as to how much of my thoughts and plans I post upfront, as I am concious of who might be reading these public threads. If I planned to listen to the widest range of amplifiers that was realistic for me in terms of logistics and travel, that might entail demo's with maybe 5 or 6 dealers. Any of those dealers could be reading my posts, so personally I will be a little careful what I share on a public forum. I would want each dealer to think that I was just dealing with them and possibly one other only, and that I was genuinely going to purchase a new item from them.
jonathanRD said:
Most dealers know a customer will do this and seak the best price/solution for himself.
This is a challenge that all dealers face and need to deal with it in a day to day basis.
Say your decide on an amp at a dealer for £1000 then just before going in to buy it, you spot the same amp somewhere else much cheaper. Would you not buy the cheaper option?
Most would get the cheaper option.
Now all dealers know this and thats one of the challenges they face.
Now if that same dealer wants to punish you - thats a whole different planet of customer service.
I don't understand why both of you need to explain anything on here. One wants a loyal customer, the other wants best value for his money. The circumstances were such that those two didn't intersect, so life goes on.
Vladimir said:
I would have if he'd just of said andrew,im unhappy about x y z so i dont want to deal with you anymore.
Im also happy not to deal with him anymore.
i just wanted to know what it was.
Anyway ill leave it now as you are right.its not good(unless i feel the need to defend my name)
Ok lets forget about it
DocG
Well-known member
but personally I think there's been a massive error of judgement on part of the dealer here. I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole after reading this. Damage done, reputation and good customer service is key.... when I was in retail the hard to swallow and said through gritted teeth moto was that 'the customer is always right'... interesting read though.
luckylion100 said:
Its not that bad
Even though we have a beef with each other you can still get a good deal for hegel or atc from him. I not wanting to damage a business.
Im finished with the anger now.
and everyone is friends again.
I'm very interested in following your progress with the speakers.
Best of luck with it.
I'm very interested in following your progress with the speakers.
Best of luck with it.
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