Vintage

[Jasonovich]

I want a HIFI Rose RS520 and a pair of Monitor Audio Studio 89 speakers, but it's also the lack of funds for me, so I will settle for my fairly new HIFI until I can afford to upgrade. It might never happen, but I never look at old technology and ever think this could be a better path to authentic music reproduction because it can't be. We still have a vinyl revival and even cassette tapes are getting popular again. It's sad to think Sony and Philips invented CD, a far superior sounding and convenient format and it still gets derided on this forum and others. I don't know why people want to reject CD, a format I worshipped for decades until streaming took away the faff of physical media. People still insist they want to own their music collection, but I'm not so precious about this and if my Spotify is ever down, I will just find something else to do. I've always loved music, but it's not the most important thing in the world and I think many people should just be less obsessed with the stuff they own. At the end of the day, it's just material to hoard and when you're dead, it will probably end up in the bin anyway. I can understand people being involved with the sleeve notes and the 'ritual' of vinyl, but the adoration of this format won't make it sound better than a new recording, on a high res format, never mind listening to this format through dated designs and vintage kit.

I'm a digital guy, the stuff coming out today is a welcoming development. I don't see vinyl versus digital as two definite camps, they offer different things and I suspect many setups have an inclusion of both.
I don't invest in vinyl any more, high resolution digital format like DSD is my preferred medium and my setups reflect this.
In a few years time, I'm going to retire and the setup I have now is probably my last but I'm happy with what I have and once you made your mark or set your boundaries, be happy.

 

[podknocker]

You can say it, but that doesn't make it true - and a few anecdotes do not change that. Modern cars are safer, more economical, faster, more reliable and better-built than their predecessors - they are an interest of mine too.

They are also heavier (in part because they are safer, but as part of the transition to batteries too), so I'm not saying it's all good. Ride quality is another area that's suffered, but blame people for wanting 'sportiness' with everything and wanting colossal wheels) But empirically I doubt you'll find more than a few people in a hundred who would agree that older cars are better than new. Because they are not, basically...

I think there's an argument that cars from 10-20 years ago are more engaging than their current counterparts (one of the reasons I won't change mine), but their modern day equivalents are, as I say, better-built, more reliable, more economical, safer, faster, have tech that couldn't even have been dreamt up then, etc etc.

Exactly. Cars have evolved so much and the tech they contain is remarkable. You have GPS and phone kit inside, along with HIFI components. Electric cars were around before petrol and diesel and they are going to replace fossil fuel based cars at some point. Solar power, along with hydrolysis will end the stuff around today. Pollution is the main reason, but if you can use the sun's energy and water to run a car, it's going to be much cheaper eventually. Again, many people love their loud, polluting cars, but this stuff is heading for the bin. It's not sustainable and the combustion engine has ruined the world, in my opinion. Just imagine a world where every vehicle is whisper quiet, safe and nearly free to run. Satellites controlling vehicle speed will happen at some point and all the aggressive, violent behaviour behind the wheel will come to an end. I do think it's daft people are encouraged to buy cars with very powerful engines and I think there needs to be a more sensible approach to getting around. I know many out there like to tear round the streets like lunatics, but deaths from RTAs is still high. Cars are heavier, because they are safer, but then the engines get more powerful to deal with the weight and toys etc. I would have all cars limited to the national speed limit, with an override in case of an emergency etc. If you decide you simply want to go fast and risk someone's death, then you should take full responsibility for flicking that switch.

 

[Gray]

Currently stored I've got the Philips GA-437 turntable and a JVC KD-21 cassette deck from around 1978.
Plus the Quad FM4 tuner from 1984
My version is likely to be unique in the world - for having Ford hurricane grey preset buttons 🤪

All others have either BBC/ILR or just numbers 1-7.
But I can always revert mine to original if necessary.

 

[Gray]

You can say it, but that doesn't make it true - and a few anecdotes do not change that. Modern cars are safer, more economical, faster, more reliable and better-built than their predecessors - they are an interest of mine too.

They are also heavier (in part because they are safer, but as part of the transition to batteries too), so I'm not saying it's all good. Ride quality is another area that's suffered, but blame people for wanting 'sportiness' with everything and wanting colossal wheels) But empirically I doubt you'll find more than a few people in a hundred who would agree that older cars are better than new. Because they are not, basically...

I think there's an argument that cars from 10-20 years ago are more engaging than their current counterparts (one of the reasons I won't change mine), but their modern day equivalents are, as I say, better-built, more reliable, more economical, safer, faster, have tech that couldn't even have been dreamt up then, etc etc.

Just a shame about the standard of driving which, in general, seems to be getting worse.
(Maybe a subconscious feeling that, in their airbagged tanks, no harm can come to them).

 

[podknocker]

Sorry to say but you have a misscomseption of what are new technologies and vintage material , in the 90´s good quality, had sailed since 1980 ,

so all you refer to be better now was because at the time modern stuff like today is the same or bad and minimum acepted quality by all,

one could have less money but had a minimum quality system later with a litle more money one can buy a good set of modern speakers ,

in the 70´s and early 80´s speakers did came out with 101DB of sensivety and frequency response like 15-30Khz, 4oms and 2ohms speakers and a bit later one could find them but at a unacessible price, as an example some Infinity, JBL and Cerwin Vega´s and many more,

i use old equipment but there is no better one at less than 100.000€´s so i still use my 70´s equipment that belonged to my father and grandfather x2 has i had from both my original families and lucky me that they liked music and more important they had money .

But a CD player, DAT deck or Minidisc deck , a multimedia server or streamer that only new can have quality ,

there was none in the 70´s, also speakers from 1970 or a bit younger do had better sound , only problem the drivers mainly for mids and high´s need to be restored and that ´s not easy to all, and new starts in 50.000€ at least was what they asked me for a new set of JBL´s this year and weren´t the best ones,

but i have that same quality in JBL , Altec Lansing and Tannoy but allthough they work perfect ,the drivers are in need of substitution, about turntables compared to todays models till 5.000€ i have better from 78 and 79 and almost as good from 68 and 72,

i could refer the thorens professional model from late 60´s or the SP-1 from technics in 72 and later the P3 from Pioneer from 78 and the SL-1000MKII from 79 and others inbetween,

if i was 20 now i would get what is being sold now but it´s not the reality

I have no idea what point you are trying to make. I know exactly what new technologies are. I have a streaming amp and a pair of very efficient and great sounding speakers. Compare my system to anything similar from 20 to 30 years ago and my system would always sound better than the older kit. I find it incredible and insulting that you think I don't know what new technology is, knowing the kit I currently own and enjoy. I work in IT and all the stuff I own could be considered the latest technology. I'm not a Luddite wishing the world and its new ideas would go away and leave me alone with outdated materials, formats and designs. I remember the B&O Beocentres in the 70s and 80s and they were state of the art back then, but sounded dreadful compared to a newer design. A budget product today would easily sound better than a non budget product from decades ago. Chips, amps, speaker materials and designs, along with computer modelling, have given us far superior speakers than those available decades ago.

 

[podknocker]

it shows you have a very limited knowledge of hi-fi components, what today costs 300.000€ as a system with superior quality, i had them with the same quality while growing up ,

but it´s a regular thing , i could have been born in a poor family and i wouldn´t have nothing that i have or have knowledge of it.

So, new always better , one when born doesn´t come with information about the last 60 years in what concerns to hi-fi ,

but did you read my coments or just a line or two to answer like that, i think i explained it good, do you think sound quality didn´t existed in the 70´s?it was the best as today standarts

well it was expensive but less than today and almost no one in my country could buy them, in the north it happened as the industries were all there, in south agriculture but half my family is from the North and other half from the South and were not poor, lucky me

About B&O ,you heard old and decrepit beocentres but if you had entered in a B&O store to seat and listen to their systems , i think you would notice a lot better sound than todays old beocentres,

i myself only bought a several cd player and tuner with some very good and nice sounding speakers for my office in the 90´s this all with a crystal glass cover,

they were selling HD plasm tv´s before or a decede away of appearing the first HD ones in early 2000´s, and there were CRT tv´s with HD with a perfect image,

only recentelly they could solve it , but in a minimum way the problem of the blacks in led tv´s and CRT tv´s had perfect blacks which not even today the best led tv´s of super HD 4K have that quality in HD CRT tv´s ,all the time as the blacks are much better but not like we were used to see in old HD CRT TV´s

well the defenition wasn´t so high but i like perfect image not sometimes perfect as black is a colour(in reality the non existance of colour) that they had decades to solve the problem but they couldn´t,

things that are now possible like wireless headphones, i had them not heavy in the 70´s in a normende TV spectra colour not the ones with 4 screens under the big one but only a regular white tv ,colour one as in Portugal colour tv only appeared in the early 80´s ,

but i live 40kms from Spain so i had tv colour and remote without wire when nobody had colour tv and much less stereo and hi-fi, and VCR was still to came in the future,

but also had beta and V2000 system by Philips my next Tv after the Normende one,

VHS was a system with less quality available and when later apeared Betamax that is was a laugh when VHS won the standart home video system, not everything is like one thinks

(Personal comment removed by moderation). I've spent around £30k on all sorts of HIFI over the last 35 years. Do you really think, for example, a studio recording of music produced in the 70s would have been available on a high resolution format, to allow people to appreciate the quality? You would have AM radio and very poor quality turntables and poor quality speakers to listen to anything in the 70s. We now have CD versions of music produced in the 70s and reveals all the details laid down in the recording studio. I still don't know what you are trying to prove and you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[12th Monkey]

it shows you have a very limited knowledge of hi-fi components,

Let's not edge towards comments being personal.

I think you are flogging a dead horse in terms of persuading anyone here that there was ever a golden era of hifi (or anything else for that matter). Might make sense to genuinely accept that others see things differently, and that doesn't mean that they are automatically ill-informed.

 

[Rodolfo]

This thread is more about attitudes than understanding. As with most life matters, the differences within audio eras are as great or greater as those between.

 

[podknocker]

Makes me laugh thinking all these tech companies spend a fortune on R&D to make things sound worse than stuff from 50 years ago. This, regardless of experience or opinion, is not the case.

 

[12th Monkey]

One of my uncles used to say that a Spitfire was a better fighter than a modern fighter. Obvious retort was that it this were the case, they'd still be made. He was the first person who made me realise that adults didn't necessarily know what they were talking about!

 

[Rui]

Let's not edge towards comments being personal.

I think you are flogging a dead horse in terms of persuading anyone here that there was ever a golden era of hifi (or anything else for that matter). Might make sense to genuinely accept that others see things differently, and that doesn't mean that they are automatically ill-informed.

i only replied to another coment that wasn´t correct and i explained and even comented that no one is born with 60 years of knowledge about hi-fi but say that the 90´s was old and new is better in only unreal

 

[Cricketbat70]

Haha! It's a terrific product and does represent the state of the art in modern technology. I could never imagine streaming amps existing when I was buying CD players and other stuff 20 years ago. The streaming amp market is bringing many new technologies together, in a similar way to new TVs. The range of features in new TVs now is a world away from those 4:3 ration grey goldfish bowls, sat in massive teak effect cupboards. The last CRT TV I bought was a 32" Philips and must have weighed as much as me. Vintage TVs will never return, that's for sure.

When I first started working for the firm I work for we still sold and installed CRT TV. 36" were horrible weighed as much as a washing machine 76kg. I have not so fond memories of deep grooves in my hands from the bottom of TV's when we had to take them out of the box to get them into customers houses and my fingers locking because of the weight.
We have a little museum in the sales office with a couple of Philips 36" Wide-screen CRT and an old top loading washing machine with a mangle😂

 

[Cricketbat70]

One of my uncles used to say that a Spitfire was a better fighter than a modern fighter. Obvious retort was that it this were the case, they'd still be made. He was the first person who made me realise that adults didn't necessarily know what they were talking about!

🤣

 

[Cricketbat70]

You can say it, but that doesn't make it true - and a few anecdotes do not change that. Modern cars are safer, more economical, faster, more reliable and better-built than their predecessors - they are an interest of mine too.

They are also heavier (in part because they are safer, but as part of the transition to batteries too), so I'm not saying it's all good. Ride quality is another area that's suffered, but blame people for wanting 'sportiness' with everything and wanting colossal wheels) But empirically I doubt you'll find more than a few people in a hundred who would agree that older cars are better than new. Because they are not, basically...

I think there's an argument that cars from 10-20 years ago are more engaging than their current counterparts (one of the reasons I won't change mine), but their modern day equivalents are, as I say, better-built, more reliable, more economical, safer, faster, have tech that couldn't even have been dreamt up then, etc etc.

Speaking of cars I am now the owner of a 21 reg Mazda CX30, the modern safety equipment in cars is unbelievable. Lane assist, lane departure warning. Blind spot monitoring. Sign post recognition. Brake assist etc etc. my old car Mazda 3 from 20 10. Is currently sat in my garage because the part ex I was offered wouldn't even cover the cost of the wheels refurbishing I had done in January.
The only reason I have a newer car is because my mum didn't like me driving around in a 14 year old car so she gave me the funds from her ISA. I couldn't afford another car otherwise. 106000 miles and still going strong just the body work looking a bit tired
I'm hoping that my son will book up the confidence to learn to drive then the Mazda 3 will be his, he is currently paying the tax and insurance on it as it was his idea to keep the car.

 

[Jasonovich]

Currently stored I've got the Philips GA-437 turntable and a JVC KD-21 cassette deck from around 1978.
Plus the Quad FM4 tuner from 1984
My version is likely to be unique in the world - for having Ford hurricane grey preset buttons 🤪
View attachment 7212
All others have either BBC/ILR or just numbers 1-7.
But I can always revert mine to original if necessary.
View attachment 7213

The weird thing about it, the Quad tuner is 40 years old but it doesn't look dated. Must be ahead of its time 😊

 

[The End]

Let's take a trip down memory lane! What's the oldest piece of hi-fi equipment you proudly own? Share your vintage treasure.​

1950s Philips record player. 1960s Scantic record player. Two 1969 Sennheiser HD 414. 1969 or 1970 Pioneer SX-990. Early 1970s DUAL 1214. 1970s WEGA (SONY) record player. 1981 Cerwin Vega A504R Danish build. nnnn Cerwin Vega xxxx (very unsure), black with black foam rings. Two 1981-1983 DUAL CS741Q record players. Early Yamaha AV integrated with S-Video, no HDMI. An old Philips VHS player. An old Luxman tuner.

 

[Gray]

1950s Philips record player. 1960s Scantic record player. 1969 or 1970 Pioneer SX-990. Early 1970s DUAL 1214. 1970s WEGA (SONY) record player. 1981 Cerwin Vega A504R Danish build. nnnn Cerwin Vega xxxx (very unsure), black with black foam rings. Two 1981-1983 DUAL CS741Q record players. Early Yamaha AV integrated with S-Video, no HDMI. An old Philips VHS player. An old Luxman tuner.

You live in a museum 👍

 

[The End]

You live in a museum 👍

I have newer stuff too but they asked for old stuff...

 

[Revolutions]

@The End love it, anyone with that many turntables takes their hobby seriously. I think we need photos…

 

[12th Monkey]

it´s a myth that new cars are safe, they are the worst ,not going to give examples but metal is stronger than plastic

I'm sorry, but you are propagating untruths here. Put an old car through Euro NCAP tests and it would perform very poorly. If you are referring to some modern cars having plastic body panels, I fear you are misunderstanding how crash protection works. The crash structure and crumple zones are within the body, not on the outside. Plastic is used in things like external bumpers because if can absorb very low speed impacts by deforming, where metal panels would just dent. They are also lighter.

And all of this is before we start to consider airbags (and how many newer cars have), ABS, traction control, ESP etc, and active safety systems. These may not be perfect yet, but they will only get better.

But back on topic please, one and all.

 

[Rui]

I have no idea what point you are trying to make. I know exactly what new technologies are. I have a streaming amp and a pair of very efficient and great sounding speakers. Compare my system to anything similar from 20 to 30 years ago and my system would always sound better than the older kit. I find it incredible and insulting that you think I don't know what new technology is, knowing the kit I currently own and enjoy. I work in IT and all the stuff I own could be considered the latest technology. I'm not a Luddite wishing the world and its new ideas would go away and leave me alone with outdated materials, formats and designs. I remember the B&O Beocentres in the 70s and 80s and they were state of the art back then, but sounded dreadful compared to a newer design. A budget product today would easily sound better than a non budget product from decades ago. Chips, amps, speaker materials and designs, along with computer modelling, have given us far superior speakers than those available decades ago.

it seems you don´t know what was released in the 90´s , and the 80´s or the 70´s , "...far suerior " to what ?the quality of components as been decreasing a lot in the last years, in the 70´s there were speakers better than most of the new ones ,there are of the same quality and brand today but the price is between 50.000€ and much more don´t even know how much they ask for the top JBL available ,

normally cheap speakers had minimum 101DB , sensivety or more and frequency response there was a lot of variety but much more wider ferequency spectrum, i my self bought some speakers in the 80´s and 90´s but those models , or most of them are sold today with inferior quality and a very high price,

i remenber in hi-fi magazines critising new Cerwin Vega speakers that had 5 ways not three like it´s usual, and they used to say that were good to rock music only , for me it was ok most of the music i heard in those two decades was rock music,

but when having them at home i could compare with others my friends had bought , none were so detailed like the american brand it had 400watts at 4ohms and every litle sound no matter the character of the music was heard with perfection even with Jazz records from the late 40´s , 50´s and early 60´s,

at the time there were a type of turntables that as nothing related with new ones including the cartridges , you can only buy them in 2nd hand . Some i have still, work perfect with regular maintenace as it is described in their manual, for 56 years, for some years they work 24h a day as they were from a radio station

this to say that a turntable that worked a lot since late 60´s today works perfect and nothing was changed either than what needs to be substituted from time to time , and the oil on the bearing as it is described in the manual.

Check some catalogs on-line available on hifi engine so you can see what known brands were releasing by that time. Don´t forget to compare specifications then tell me about it

 

[podknocker]

it seems you don´t know what was released in the 90´s , and the 80´s or the 70´s , "...far suerior " to what ?the quality of components as been decreasing a lot in the last years, in the 70´s there were speakers better than most of the new ones ,there are of the same quality and brand today but the price is between 50.000€ and much more don´t even know how much they ask for the top JBL available ,

normally cheap speakers had minimum 101DB , sensivety or more and frequency response there was a lot of variety but much more wider ferequency spectrum, i my self bought some speakers in the 80´s and 90´s but those models , or most of them are sold today with inferior quality and a very high price,

i remenber in hi-fi magazines critising new Cerwin Vega speakers that had 5 ways not three like it´s usual, and they used to say that were good to rock music only , for me it was ok most of the music i heard in those two decades was rock music,

but when having them at home i could compare with others my friends had bought , none were so detailed like the american brand it had 400watts at 4ohms and every litle sound no matter the character of the music was heard with perfection even with Jazz records from the late 40´s , 50´s and early 60´s,

at the time there were a type of turntables that as nothing related with new ones including the cartridges , you can only buy them in 2nd hand . Some i have still, work perfect with regular maintenace as it is described in their manual, for 56 years, for some years they work 24h a day as they were from a radio station

this to say that a turntable that worked a lot since late 60´s today works perfect and nothing was changed either than what needs to be substituted from time to time , and the oil on the bearing as it is described in the manual.

Check some catalogs on-line available on hifi engine so you can see what known brands were releasing by that time. Don´t forget top compare specifications then tell me about it

You seem to be stuck in the past and to not accept modern things are an improvement over what came before is just nonsense. You are the very definition of a Luddite.

 

[abacus]

With some of these replies I wonder whether any of the posters have been to a live concert lately (Or even just a local band), as if they did, they would realise that a lot of stuff used is old (Particularly the instruments) but with plenty of modern stuff.
One thing is certain though, all Hi-Fi equipment falls short in comparison (Although modern stuff will give a closer sound to the live performance than old), so it's all a moot point really.
WARNING: If you are happy with your equipment (Old or New) and believe it to be the Bees Nees, DO NOT go to a live concert, as when you come back you will be totally shocked as to how bad your system sounds.

Bill

 

[podknocker]

only get better ? have you ever drove a car ,old and new to say that ,which is a fairytale, did you know that in the past cars were made of metal, strong one , i can speak for myself as in all my life as a driver never had a crash and already passed some decades since i got my first car

You are talking nonsense. The fact you have never crashed has nothing to do with the safety of a car. If you had crashed in an old car at 70mph, you might have been killed. Modern cars are much safer due to modern materials, airbags and all sorts of fancy braking and chassis technologies. A car without crumple zones, to absorb collision energy, will transfer this energy through the chassis and cause more damage to the occupants. You have no idea about modern technology, be it automotive or HIFI. I'm sure the 70s and 80s gave us some great vintage devices, but things have improved in so many areas. The kit you can buy today is so much better than the stuff released decades ago. This Luddite mentality is so irrational.

 

[podknocker]

irrational, what about you´re unreal coment and the fact that i didn´t crash is related with , always respected speed limits and other peoples lives not lucky, if i want to drive fast i pay almost 40€ and can drive in a circuit at any speed i want. it shows you no nothing about cars

You are talking nonsense. I think you fear change, or simply can't afford new things, so feel resentful of progress. You are not going to stop it. To not appreciate and be thankful for modern things is the definition of a Luddite. I'm not interested in old fashioned stuff and enjoy what the modern world has to offer. Wanting to live in the past is bizarre. Today's world is the most exciting and interesting time our species has ever experienced. You should appreciate the world and what it has to offer. You can't win an argument with an idiot. I rest my case your honour.