Vintage

[twinkletoes]

Streaming amps containing state of the art DACs and SSD storage, controlled by an app installed on a mobile phone, playing tunes off the internet not innovation? It would have been a dream 20 years ago.

I'm still amazed I can play any of 80 million tunes, within a second, at decent quality and the only wires I can see are for the trailing socket and the speaker leads. It's brilliant!

It is great that we live in a world where we have so much information at the press of a button but it’s hardly new is it! Spotify is coming up to it’s 20th. And pretty much since the first iPhone people have been streaming on the move since. So where is the innovation here in 2024?

I/and many have been streaming since 99 when Napster launched, then iTunes home networking with airports and nas boxes

And some of what you describing isn’t strictly audiophile innovation it’s computing, you know this I’m sure given your background,

All naim/hifi rose and others have done is taken something that hobbyists have been doing for decades with small form computers and found a way to package it make it look nice and charge small fortune for it. The streaming cards in these units are really nothing more than a “raspberry pie” type devices with custom UI. Hence my comment on another post “streamers are the biggest con in hifi at the moment” and I stand by that. Not streaming streamers, the product.

Amps with dacs have been around for 30 years in the guise of av receivers, and dacs really haven’t changed to that much with many products using decades old designs and as many like to point out “all sound the same!” You could argue fpga’s are a leap forward but many see them as solution to a problem that didn’t really exist and nothing more than something that can marketed. And I own a product with one, worked on me I guess lol.

This is where I do agree with you. The biggest single innovation in hifi day is something that was never intended for hifi and thats the smartphone/tablet and the way you interact with you hifi through the use of Ui , but many brands still haven’t nailed it because it so damed expensive do. Catalogue service roon are the perfect example of it done right. It must have cost them an absolute fortune. But it does nothing to push hifi along in terms of sound and how it goes about making that sound.

Pure hifi innovation something purely designed for the purpose of making music well I’ve seen very very little in 20years. One thing that has started to pop up are direct stream digital amps that contain no dac per-say, marantz new baby amp and jbl active studio monitors contain them but it’s not really shouted about.

But I think the biggest gains have been made behind closed doors in the mixing studio.

 

[Revolutions]

Does it count as vintage if I don’t own a tv ?

 

[Revolutions]

The biggest single innovation in hifi day is something that was never intended for hifi and thats the smartphone/tablet and the way you interact with you hifi through the use of Ui , but many brands still haven’t nailed it because it so damed expensive do. Catalogue service roon are the perfect example of it done right. It must have cost them an absolute fortune.

I would argue (& have done in another thread a few weeks back) that it’s not money, it’s purely the company’s pedigree. A business structured around selling physical units just doesn’t have the talent, nor the experience to bring in the right kind of talent, that building a quality app requires.

You can bootstrap a very good app for little money these days, and even do it without code for the most part.

And now that I think about it - so many hifi units have terrible ui, even with only a few buttons. And almost every remote control is a disaster from start to finish. We are the monsters - letting these people focus on the sound & not hold them to account for a crap experience when you want to change the input, or even the volume.

 

[Gray]

Does it count as vintage if I don’t own a tv ?

You're not normal - says the bloke that writes dates on batteries 🙂
But not owning a TV seems to be becoming more common (well there's you and Ann Widdecombe).....must say I can understand why.
I can go weeks without turning mine on.
Have listened daily to radio for decades though, if only for a few minutes some days.

 

[Al ears]

Does it count as vintage if I don’t own a tv ?

No....
As per the OPs initial question, it must be proudly owned.
I am afraid the oldest thing I currently own is an LP

 

[A-Line]

In addition to vintage audio this thread also covered vintage cars & vintage TV's as well as Luddites.

The modern term for Luddite is "Neo-Luddite" which more or less refers to someone that is opposed modern technologies as well as modern advancements in technology.

Just saying...😁

 

[DougK1]

The modern term for Luddite is "Neo-Luddite" which more or less refers to someone that is opposed modern technologies as well as modern advancements in technology.

Did someone call?

 

[Jasonovich]

I'd happily have a TV without a tuner. Most of our watching is through online services.
Sound through my 16 year old Yamaha AV receiver.
I did briefly try a sound bar with the idea of perhaps down sizing and decluttering my hifi. Rach did say if I got rid of my Yamaha I'd regret it and she is probably right.

My TV in the diner is actually Samsung 28" PC monitor. All I need is two remotes, one to switch on the Android TV which wakes up the monitor from standby via the HDMI and another remote to switch on SMSL class D amp, works seemlessly. The little Dali's and Fostex SW play out the audio, no soundbar necessary.

I do wish manufacturers would make full size TVs without the tuner as default and put the extra costs saved towards improving the quality of the picture, not everyone requires a TV licence.

 

[Al ears]

In addition to vintage audio this thread also covered vintage cars & vintage TV's as well as Luddites.

The modern term for Luddite is "Neo-Luddite" which more or less refers to someone that is opposed modern technologies as well as modern advancements in technology.

Just saying...😁

A new term for Luddite is completely unnecessary as it is the definitive term

 

[Cricketbat70]

My TV in the diner is actually Samsung 28" PC monitor. All I need is two remotes, one to switch on the Android TV which wakes up the monitor from standby via the HDMI and another remote to switch on SMSL class D amp, works seemlessly. The little Dali's and Fostex SW play out the audio, no soundbar necessary.

I do wish manufacturers would make full size TVs without the tuner as default and put the extra costs saved towards improving the quality of the picture, not everyone requires a TV licence.

Our TV in the dining room just has a Roku and a Chromecast connected. I've got an old Denon Mini separates system in the dining room and considering connecting the TV to that. I've a couple of tiny Eltax speakers hooked up to the Denon, that were originally bought to use as front presence speakers for the Yamaha (7.1) but never used them. I have a few pairs of book shelf speakers that I've acquired and I am contemplating swapping out for the little Eltax

 

[A-Line]

Did someone call?

Well interestingly enough I'm following a thread on another site involving Garrard 301/401 being modded into what some feel is a reference turntable.
It would seem that some like the nostalgia of the late 1950's - 1960's and want to remenence about a bygone era.
Even if such tables could be modded into reference tables they would bare no semblance to their original make and model.

Thorens(not the same ownership that designed the original 124) has resurrected the 124 as a current production turntable.
Shindo reincarnated the Garrard 401 for their product line also.

Those turntables belong in a museum along with the Thorens TD124.

 

[Gray]

A new term for Luddite is completely unnecessary as it is the definitive term

A modern, new name is just what Luddites need to make them even more angry.

 

[Rui]

Get over it, how well designed your car is, with respect to crash safety, has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with how you drive and whether or not you have ever crashed and, has no influence on how you drive. @podknocker is right, you are talking nonsense.

yes driving is not related with crashing a car, nice. they only happen by Gods will, Jesus, mary and Joseph ,made me remenber how good darklands from jesus and the Mary Chain sound

 

[DCarmi]

I am afraid the oldest thing I currently own is an LP

Actually I have the one last remaining shellac 78 that belonged to my Dad. No way to play it though, short of a lazy susan and a darning needle in the mouth.

 

[Rui]

If the Technics is that good why buy the Rega?
Doesn't make any sense to me although I will take a guess as to which one dies first......
.....also it's not particularly nice telling other forum members to grow up because they have different opinions to you.

Opinions?hum, i´ll try to really notice if they are opinions or just trying to be ofensive with unreal statements and diminish others with , not opinions but coments about others trying to express their knowledge, isn´t this a forum or what?what can one say here?or only in the last decade high-fidelity devices to hear music achieve that higher level, before all was only noise ,is that the reality

 

[12th Monkey]

This thread is not about other members. Further posts which are will be deleted as per forum rules.

 

[Rui]

Well interestingly enough I'm following a thread on another site involving Garrard 301/401 being modded into what some feel is a reference turntable.
It would seem that some like the nostalgia of the late 1950's - 1960's and want to remenence about a bygone era.
Even if such tables could be modded into reference tables they would bare no semblance to their original make and model.

Thorens(not the same ownership that designed the original 124) has resurrected the 124 as a current production turntable.
Shindo reincarnated the Garrard 401 for their product line also.

Those turntables belong in a museum along with the Thorens TD124.

i think if they are more advanced than new stuff , they are not museum pieces but examples of how really a turntable should sound not acept what money makers are releasing without any near quality to older components, not an advance in technology but a retrocess and should be refered to not let all younger people believe that new is advanced but cheaper built in the name of profit, open a new 1.000€ amplifier and look inside than compare it with another from the same price made from 50 to 20 years ago, if you have knowledge about electronics doesn´t need to be an expert to see what is being done.

 

[Friesiansam]

i think if they are more advanced than new stuff , they are not museum pieces but examples of how really a turntable should sound not acept what money makers are releasing without any near quality to older components, not an advance in technology but a retrocess and should be refered to not let all younger people believe that new is advanced but cheaper built in the name of profit, open a new 1.000€ amplifier and look inside than compare it with another from the same price made from 50 to 20 years ago, if you have knowledge about electronics doesn´t need to be an expert to see what is being done.

You’re failing to take account of inflation, £1000 50 years ago, is equivalent to around £9200 now, based on BoE inflation calculator (no Euros 50 years ago).

 

[podknocker]

Even considering inflation, I think you get more for your money these days, but it's impossible trying to compare my system to something 20 years ago because a lot of these features didn't exist 20 years ago. I finally love the sound of my system and it makes me stop what I'm doing sometimes and focus on the sound quality. It's much better than anything I've bought over the last 35 years, but you would expect that with modern materials, advanced computer modelling and production methods etc.

 

[Rui]

i meant the effort has more know what is 1.000€ than diferent coins to each country and economy level at all those decades, i know the € appeared in 2001, day 1 , you think it´s easier to make those calculations than have an idea of what was the effort

 

[Rui]

Even considering inflation, I think you get more for your money these days, but it's impossible trying to compare my system to something 20 years ago because a lot of these features didn't exist 20 years ago. I finally love the sound of my systems and it makes me stop what I'm doing sometimes and focus on the sound quality. It's much better than anything I've bought over the last 35 years, but you would expect that with modern materials, advanced computer modelling and production methods etc.

features ,yes , but i was refering to sound quality not new features , people are buying again turntables is that a new feature?are you saying that with a good 90´s amplifier is impossible to listen to music on streaming channels, it seems you never heard any device related with hi-fi older than 2020 or correct me when did you start to research prices and quality of the components built now or 10 years ago or even 20 , we can retrocess more than 50 years if sound quality is what matters

 

[podknocker]

features ,yes , but i was refering to sound quality not new features , people are buying again turntables is that a new feature?are you saying that with a good 90´s amplifier is impossible to listen to music on streaming channels, or digital already existed at a high level just not in the compact disc and the compact disc is a 70´s developed digital format is it better now or when it was built of better materials and dac´s were already evolved

People are buying turntables again because it's fashionable and not because of superior sound quality, or ease of use. I do believe the system I have sounds better than anything I've owned over the last 35 years. Again, companies don't invest lots of money on R&D to make products sound worse than their 50 year old ancestors.

 

[podknocker]

One thing to degrade over time is your sense of hearing. Is it possible some people remember the sound quality of older devices and are now disappointed with newer products because they are not hearing as well as they did 20 or more years ago? This can't be ruled out as it does affect everyone eventually.

 

[Rui]

only you have that opinion , i might be what you call old but my hearing is at a good level , i tested my hearing, i also did with my eyes ,if they need aid to see better or not and no i don´t need neither glasses or hearing aid and i have old equipment , never throw anything i bought in the garbage as they still work and with very good sound before claiming other people hearing check the specifications on your devices about analog or digital being better that is a really debatable question and if you start in a point that what as been sold today is better than all sold in the past that´s a ilusion as i said check some specifications and then tell about them and explain how new things are better , records is a fashion?but i hear records since i remenber being my self and also can add that records sound was very superior in the past the same with amplifiers sound quality , not me being a old man and imposing my opinion , if you´re so well informed tell me what happened in 1980 in all brands that have acessible components, and if you heard a 50 year amplifier that was down on a warehouse getting dust all this years i did not refer to those but restored one to original specifications, it´s not what i remenber but conecting all i bought and notice evident diferencies about sound quality even without any restore but some cleaning ,tube amplifiers are also a fashion?see the cost of a good tube amplifier like the macintosh ones, as they are known by more people than dynaco ones, are they sounding horrible but we old people like the sound of those years , it´s like music if people hear only new music why is there thousands of re-re-rematers of a LP if the first edition was considered perfect is there today any level of quality today above perfection ,if there is please tell me ,i don´t know about it, i´m old

 

[Friesiansam]

only you have that opinion

That is not true.

That everybody's hearing deteriorates with age, is inescapable. As you get older the tiny bones in your ears wear slowly and the range of hearing is reduced, especially reducing the ability to hear high frequencies.