Vintage

[Rui]

That is not true.

That everybody's hearing deteriorates with age, is inescapable. As you get older the tiny bones in your ears wear slowly and the range of hearing is reduced, especially reducing the ability to hear high frequencies.

i know and i worried about it as also when younger i used to beep after concerts or discos and i only said that i do not remenber how good it sounded that 70´s equipment i have them and hear them at same time also i know which sounds best and i don´t belive people think that today is the far we got on sound quality when for the prices i see here are not that excessive neither i will pay for them but have them from my family and bought some till late 90´s and last three years assembled a modern system so to speak with great sound but i have better from the 70´s, no one noticed that stylus are not like they use to make them till the year 2000 as in a few hours of listening and not cheap, also compability in reading diferent types of sound recorded, so if today all took some time to disagree with me because i refer things that happen, like 1980 new material from known brands, am i the only who noticed a incredible decrease in quality in all components and in the 90´s sound was bad, hum! i don´t believe all here think the same

 

[podknocker]

That is not true.

That everybody's hearing deteriorates with age, is inescapable. As you get older the tiny bones in your ears wear slowly and the range of hearing is reduced, especially reducing the ability to hear high frequencies.

I remember as a child walking into electrical shops, mainly Wigfalls with my dad and hearing all the CRT TVs and capacitors whistling at what must have been 18kHz or higher and I do remember the relief when we finally left the shop. I didn't realise what caused this whistling until many years later. These old designs have gone forever, but I'm sure there are many, if not millions of electrical items around today, producing all this high frequency noise. It must be awful for the younger generations and indeed dogs, having the entire country bathed in high frequency electrical noise.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

Yes, yes, and hardly...

Aaanyway, cars is off topic (for which I hold my hand up in no small part), so let's get back on topic.

Not reopening this cul de sac, but will start a thread in the 'Not hifi related' section if anyone is interested.

 

[DCarmi]

capacitors whistling at what must have been 18kHz or higher

I too remember this, from our first colour TV.
Now I just get tinitus and seem not to be able to hear the female voice (" I told you earlier but you didn't listen!").

 

[twinkletoes]

Hi fi is alot like photography,

Film for many disappeared many many years ago and moved over to phones even though those said old school point and shoots where giving better quality images than any mobile, even to this day, though phones are great and have improved alot there is a point and at that point film still gives better results. This is akin to LP v Spotify for me. (im not going to argue the point thats my opinion)

Now compare that same film camera to modern digital full frame counterparts and the lines become alot more blurred and preference starts to take over The digital full frame is now technically alot better and the images alot cleaner allowing you to take pictures in near pitch black conditions in same situations if one was so inclined, but film, it still has a charm to it thats difficult replicate in post the texture and chemical processes down to the eventual print. This is akin to LP v CD v CD quality streaming for me. ( again im not going to argue the point thats my opinion)

Is film a fad well like LP it never went away.

Basically vintage gear has its place and its very easy to bring into the modern age, especially amps and give those products a new lease of life but it gives you the option to enjoy and run your legacy device along side the new tech, which in turn could make your legacy device sound even better than it once did, modern amp, vintage speakers and so on. Think many miss this point. You can't really say somthing is better becasue it was made yesterday and the same is true of vintage stuff you can't say better because it was made 50 years ago.

All I can say is there is a sound I like and it not something in my opinion you come across to often with modern electronics.

Im done, im out, they're my thoughts

 

[BiffaB]

HI All,


new here but my hifi is far from new.

I have still got the receipt for my Snell-KII speakers 7/1/91, £450 incl VAT. Bass cones were replaced a few months back and they sounded utter arse until the day I was about to audition some new speakers and I notice the tweeter adjust knob and now I'm in love with them all over again.

The one piece I have that is older is my Townshend Elite Rock which I traded some computer parts for in around 86.

 

[Rui]

That is not true.

That everybody's hearing deteriorates with age, is inescapable. As you get older the tiny bones in your ears wear slowly and the range of hearing is reduced, especially reducing the ability to hear high frequencies.

i know it but i´m not remenbering how good systems sound in the 70s,

i put them all conected side by side using the same source and speakers and that´s when i notice the increase of quality when using older and very good equipment ,

i had not money to buy it all but i had it from family , and they still are better ,just take a look at the building quality of some new amplifiers and compare them as if in the 90´s there was no high-fidelity in sound ,

it already existed in the 50´s with a modern source or even new speakers it sounds amazing good and not all were restored so even with 50 years or more of use they still can sound better,

even the 90´s, A-717MKII from Pioneer it´s very good and no separate till some level of quality ,will reach that level.

Separates are good but not any can be higher in quality , i saw a hegel pre and power amplifier that if conected with some CDM 1 from B&W it couldn´t even come near the integrated amplifier from Pioneer i´m refering to,

as source i was using both Rega P1 turntable with Hana Umami red cartridge and a CEC TL 0 3.0 CD player using both mission 761 at 4ohms and and the CDM 1 from B&W at 8ohms,

if someone doesn´t know CEC it´s known by chuodenki and since mid 70´s that i know of, it made a lot of turntables for other brands ,well known ones,

the newer system was a MA900 receiver from Magnat(tube pre-amplified)which includes some modern features, as old sources, a Technics 78 SL-1310 with a old cartridge the 207C mkII using a cd player PD-7300 from pioneer,

tested with the cd Draconian times from Paradise Lost, also Teho Teardo & Blixa Bargeld ,Still smiling , in vinyl i put to play Before we were so rudly interrupted from Eric Burdon & the Animals and "Electric" from the Cult also" I´m not there "the O.S.T.

also as extra tracks in compact disc ,
the first Billie Eilish album with the track, "Bury a friend ",
Cuby and the Blizzards from the American O.S.T. , "window of my eyes" (a older version) ,
"if we were vampires" from Jason Isbell and the 400 unit from the LP Nashville sound ,
"four seasons in one day" Crowded house from the Lp Woodface ,
"let´s dance to Joy Division" the Wombats from the Lp proudly presents...a guide to love, loss & desperation

this is only a example, but enough to prove my point,

or that in the 90´s there were already very good components not going to refer 70´s components as some here it seems not knowing what happened in the 90´s, it weren´t the midle ages,

Results: all sound good only the CEC cd player releases a more deep sound not that the PD-7300 from Pioneer doesn´t sound excelent and at some tracks doesn´t stay very far from the CEC, the turntables ,the technics make all sound good , the Rega makes some records sound very deep and all sounds heard, both release a almost live sound,

this was made in April, 21 of 2024, Beja, Portugal

 

[podknocker]

You've not proven anything, but simply suggested older stuff sounds better than new stuff. I'm sure the cheapest devices today can't sound as good as very expensive items from decades ago, but I don't think this is what you're saying. Spending a similar amount today, taking inflation into account, will allow you to buy something modern and with decent sound quality. The argument that all the old stuff sounds better is nonsense. The difference today between cheap and expensive devices is possibly less than the differences between similar devices from yesteryear. Spending £2000 today will give you incredible sound quality and to give you a discernible improvement requires a much larger amount of money. The law of diminishing returns plays a part in this and even very affordable devices give a very accurate reproduction of music. You can only squeeze a certain amount of information out of a recording and then you run out. People still think spending huge amounts of money will give them endless improvements in quality, but at some point you run out of quality. My system at £2000 possibly gives me 75% of my favourite music and to recover the last 25% of the recording would cost a fortune and remember, all this depends on your room acoustics anyway. Many vintage devices stood out from the crowd many years ago, but their modern replacements sound better. The notion that all the old stuff sounds better is wrong.

 

[Jasonovich]

and they sounded utter arse

Ha Ha Ha Ha....Love it!
Oh yeah I remembered the Townsend Rock Elite, the TT that started the trough reservoir, I was always intrigued by the concept.

Welcome to the forum Biffa

 

[Rui]

You've not proven anything, but simply suggested older stuff sounds better than new stuff. I'm sure the cheapest devices today can't sound as good as very expensive items from decades ago, but I don't think this is what you're saying. Spending a similar amount today, taking inflation into account, will allow you to buy something modern and with decent sound quality. The argument that all the old stuff sounds better is nonsense. The difference today between cheap and expensive devices is possibly less than the differences between similar devices from yesteryear. Spending £2000 today will give you incredible sound quality and to give you a discernible improvement requires a much larger amount of money. The law of diminishing returns plays a part in this and even very affordable devices give a very accurate reproduction of music. You can only squeeze a certain amount of information out of a recording and then you run out. People still think spending huge amounts of money will give them endless improvements in quality, but at some point you run out of quality. My system at £2000 possibly gives me 75% of my favourite music and to recover the last 25% of the recording would cost a fortune and remember, all this depends on your room acoustics anyway. Many vintage devices stood out from the crowd many years ago, but their modern replacements sound better. The notion that all the old stuff sounds better is wrong.

not meant to prove anything just used two sources with older and newer equipment and all sound good , it´s written , read it if you want to understand what i ment doing, but i do prefer the sound the more close to what was done in studio, digital or analog one, about rooms for music listening as i don´t have my sons living with me anymore, i have two listening rooms, the notion of new sounds better is terrible wrong as today even more they cut all corners possible to reduce the cost of production, as an example i have a good cd player bought in the same year i got the cec cd player as i didn´t expect to be ofered to me so i bought the Rega planet which seemed to me a nice cd player but today it looks old and my first standart cd player was the PD-7300 from Pioneer that was heavy used and still looks new

 

[podknocker]

If you think your old kit sounds better, then you will be saving money by not upgrading, but you're going to find it nearly impossible convincing people on this forum that they should abandon any plans to buy new technology and start digging out used and inferior quality devices on ebay and the like. Buying very cheap 2nd hand vintage goods is fraught with issues and there are many budget devices out there now to satisfy most audio needs. For example. CD player £300 and amplifier £300 and speakers £600 will be a fantastic improvement on similar priced items from 20 or 30 years ago. As I said above, it's progress and it's always going to be there.

 

[Rui]

If you think your old kit sounds better, then you will be saving money by not upgrading, but you're going to find it nearly impossible convincing people on this forum that they should abandon any plans to buy new technology and start digging out used and inferior quality devices on ebay and the like. Buying very cheap 2nd hand vintage goods is fraught with issues and there are many budget devices out there now to satisfy most audio needs. For example. CD player £300 and amplifier £300 and speakers £600 will be a fantastic improvement on similar priced items from 20 or 30 years ago. As I said above, it's progress and it's always going to be there.

yes , hope you´re right and progress it is for sure but not always a new box means improved and new features can be added externally, i tried already the amplifier i bought in 92 wasn´t that expensive and because i have a friend who owns a music store, he sells either than hi-fi components cds , lp records and also music instruments ,that´s where i test some new equipment .
He can sell me at cost price and in three monthes payment each component, it´s less effort, and if you notice some of the components i compare are still for sale, the most old was 2020 magnat receiver and speakers,

but the cdm 1 B&W is still in use by a lot of people and sold in second hand from 400 to 600 and something €´s depending on the condition ,

really like them with the A-717MKII from Pioneer sold in 92 cost me at the time ,what today is 700€ , and it as a very good sound and made with excelent parts ,

all there is made of metal , the A-717 was sold in 87 or 88 and had plastic knobs and missing two extra capaciteurs that are only in the MKII.

 

[brenn]

i often use my playstation 1 for playing cds...

 

[Rui]

i once had a playstation 2 or steal it from my grandson as he already seems to not use it much but wasn´t the best, but if the main cd player doesn´t want to work it´s the next option as also tried a DVD player from Sony that was stoped and surprised me for the best, it showed a detailed sound and richer in dynamics, but wasn´t a cheap one, this if had to choose between the playstation 2 or the old dvd player both sony released

 

[zeitwarp]

HMV stereogram from 1966 might be the oldest....definitely more Lo-Fi than Hi-Fi tho...

Still works...but only used for playing ruined 45's from my dad's old pub -

Nice big sound on it...but that's probably just the room it's in

 

[Jasonovich]

HMV stereogram from 1966 might be the oldest....definitely more Lo-Fi than Hi-Fi tho...

Still works...but only used for playing ruined 45's from my dad's old pub -

Nice big sound on it...but that's probably just the room it's in

View attachment 7241

That is amazing. If your turntable can be dismantled and fed off from an independent power supply, I would change the plinth and arm but that's just me, I can't stop my tinkering!

Love it! Do Androids Dream of Electric Jazz, great title.
I believe this was in reference to the 1984 Blade Runner movie - the original title of book - Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep!

 

[zeitwarp]

That is amazing. If your turntable can be dismantled and fed off from an independent power supply, I would change the plinth and arm but that's just me, I can't stop my tinkering!

Love it! Do Androids Dream of Electric Jazz, great title.
I believe this was in reference to the 1984 Blade Runner movie - the original title of book - Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep!

Hey
Yeah...it's a lovely piece - part stereogram / part art installation.
Never really thought about trying to mod it...or improve the sound out of it...

Yep....'Do Androids etc' is a nod to the Philip K **** novel that Bladerunner was based on.

Is this the best thread for vintage gear...I'll share some more 70's stuff tomorrow

 

[AJM1981]

That is not true.

That everybody's hearing deteriorates with age, is inescapable. As you get older the tiny bones in your ears wear slowly and the range of hearing is reduced, especially reducing the ability to hear high frequencies.

Little disclaimer here is that the hearing loss mostly occurs in the really high frequencies that we can hear and are barely utilized in music. Around those frequencies they use in gardens to scare cats away.

 

[Jasonovich]

Little disclaimer here is that the hearing loss mostly occurs in the really high frequencies that we can hear and are barely utilized in music.

That is so reassuring!
🎶😊👌

 

[tiggerjoint]

Pioneer ct447 cassette deck still works like new, but I don't use it anymore! Still have the box and instructions booklet for it too👍

 

[Rui]

those nice pieces of furniture were common where i live but no one uses them only older persons that still have the tuner in use as it releases a nice sound depending on the brand ,some even have good turntables but yet to be converted in diamond tip stylus ,i think it´s saphire needles, i´ve converted a Dual 1224 from my grandmother some decades ago as it was explained in a mid 70´s catalog from Dual, having a shure cartridge to convert to diamond tip stylus, as it was explained

 

[Rui]

Little disclaimer here is that the hearing loss mostly occurs in the really high frequencies that we can hear and are barely utilized in music. Around those frequencies they use in gardens to scare cats away.

you might already heard in those vines only to produce grapes to eat having no seed, it sounds like a jungle to avoid birds eating them, but they taste almost nothing to regular grapes as the seed gives taste to the grape, and without it also can´t be used to produce wine

 

[Rui]

Little disclaimer here is that the hearing loss mostly occurs in the really high frequencies that we can hear and are barely utilized in music. Around those frequencies they use in gardens to scare cats away.

like the dog whistles, we can´t hear it but dogs do seem to be in pain when hearing them . that is true at some point some do developed some hearing problems and some highs aren´t heard by those , but it´s not a regular problem, i made a test to the hearing and was total at hearing levels, the same happes with sight ,lot´s of people i know since i was 4 to 11 years old ,all wear glasses to diferent purposes while i don´t need any to see close or far , but it happens to most starting in 40 years old ,maybe the fact that i almost never saw tv till i was 40 something , now i see a lot more , like tv series or movies , before i used to see a movie at sunday night at a old theatre ,normally from independent film makers , most of them european, which are more deep and give a more acurate picture about real life, or completelly mad

 

[froze]

I bought a new 1976 Rotel RP1000 turntable on a end of the year sale price, can't recall what I paid, last cart I put on was a Empire TC400, added a Hudson HiFi Acrylic mat 3 years ago, and isolation pads about 10 years ago, and a Hudson HiFi 16 ounce weight about 2 years ago.

 

[Rui]

I bought a new 1976 Rotel RP1000 turntable on a end of the year sale price, can't recall what I paid, last cart I put on was a Empire TC400, added a Hudson HiFi Acrylic mat 3 years ago, and isolation pads about 10 years ago, and a Hudson HiFi 16 ounce weight about 2 years ago.

those were well built turntables , for sure more advanced compared to this new wave of turntables that are expensive and far from any , let´s say 70´s quality , size of the cartridge and even more strange the new size of the stylus tip , i have a pioneer that was heavy used from a special edition in 74 and in the 90´s when i bought a new complete system being using old family expensive systems i put the turntable playing and notice that a new one at the time had not so deep and real sound from the record , so i only in 96 when thorens released a new turntable series bought a TD2001 but any older turntable i have , even from thorens weren´t worst just older as i kept my old equipment in perfect functioning order , as the old V15 cartridge was one of the best till a certain price but always good sounding in any of my old turntables, so till prices around 1.000€ will never be better or even more expensive there are many who can´t use the perfect geometry to read all side of a record , this by seeing many complaining about records with a lot of time in each side being the problem this new arms in modern materials that can´t read correctelly the whole side of the record ,so the Rotel is a very good turntable ,have some Rotel equipment and it´s above many brands quality allthough most of the brands have a higher quality series, sorry if i´m confusing but english is not my first language